are we alone in the universe?

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I'd board a generation ship tomorrow for the chance my grandchildren could make it to another habitable planet.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Let's start with the fact that we have no idea what 97% of the universe is made of. It's easy to forget that. I don't remember the exact numbers but I think roughly 2/3 is dark energy and 1/3 is dark matter with the rounding error being the matter and energy that we actually know something about.

So we have no idea whatsoever about what's possible in terms of traveling across space. Quantum mechanics is non-local so in theory, something on one side of the universe can affect something on the other side instantaneously - what Einstein called spooky action at a distance. And again, remember, QM only describes that 3% of the universe we know something about.

So . . . either the other 97% of the universe holds no interesting mysteries to solve and will give us no new technological abilities we can exploit like negative energy to build an Alcubierrie warp drive or something even more advanced, or it does and maybe hopping between stars and galaxies is no more difficult than a trip to the store.

In which case, if intelligent life is common in the universe, then there's no reasonable explanation for why we haven't found it. Or rather, why it hasn't found us. The standard Star Trek, prime directive argument is bs. That's a rank anthropomorphizing of alien life. They wouldn't be anything like us and certainly wouldn't have the same cultural values. At least some of those civilizations would have no problem knocking on our door either to say hi or to kill us.

So either advanced sentient life doesn't exist at all or it's extremely rare. Either that or the laws of the universe, the vast majority of which we don't even know of yet, prohibit faster than light travel.

The only other explanation I can think of is that because of the incalculable number of world in the universe and the terminally slow speed of light relative to its size, it's only been about a billion years or so since the earth has looked interesting enough to visit from an alien perspective. That means that light from our planet has only reached a fraction of the rest of the universe. So if advanced civilizations are relatively rare, they may not yet be aware of us.

You are forgetting one thing... Intelligent life to control power, needs responsibility and an enlightend view in order not to destroy it self in the process. If we today would come up with fusion in a coke bottle size contraption, we will destroy ourselfs. Look how we treat our planet and each other. And it is very possible for other intelligent life forms to have come into a similar technological age that have destroyed themselves. Any intelligent life form that can do things we dream about in sci fi series and theorize in labs will need an enlightened view. The other side of the coin is an extremely parasitic form as we have seen often in doomsday alien movies(Or a mirror...) that can only survive by consuming everything around it.

 

[Charmonium]

You are forgetting one thing... Intelligent life to control power, needs responsibility and an enlightend view in order not to destroy it self in the process. If we today would come up with fusion in a coke bottle size contraption, we will destroy ourselfs. Look how we treat our planet and each other. And it is very possible for other intelligent life forms to have come into a similar technological age that have destroyed themselves. Any intelligent life form that can do things we dream about in sci fi series and theorize in labs will need an enlightened view. The other side of the coin is an extremely parasitic form as we have seen often in doomsday alien movies(Or a mirror...) that can only survive by consuming everything around it.

The coin doesn't have two sides. It has infinite sides if there are infinite civilizations. OK, not infinite, but a very large number if we're going with the 'the universe is so vast' argument.

My point is that if there really are so many advanced civilizations out there, we would know about it by now. The only reason we wouldn't is if it turns out FTL travel isn't possible no matter how advanced you are, which I don't believe for an instant.

So if I'm right, then at the very least, advanced civilizations must be sufficiently rare that we haven't been noticed by one curious enough to want to meet us. Something which again, I think is extremely unlikely.

The only thing I think IS likely is that such civilizations are sufficiently rare and our planet is young enough that it has managed to escape the notice of anyone with the ability to contact us.

 

[William Gaatjes]

The coin doesn't have two sides. It has infinite sides if there are infinite civilizations. OK, not infinite, but a very large number if we're going with the 'the universe is so vast' argument.

My point is that if there really are so many advanced civilizations out there, we would know about it by now. The only reason we wouldn't is if it turns out FTL travel isn't possible no matter how advanced you are, which I don't believe for an instant.

So if I'm right, then at the very least, advanced civilizations must be sufficiently rare that we haven't been noticed by one curious enough to want to meet us. Something which again, I think is extremely unlikely.

The only thing I think IS likely is that such civilizations are sufficiently rare and our planet is young enough that it has managed to escape the notice of anyone with the ability to contact us.

I find it strange that you think that it is not possible that an alien society can be so advanced in technology and thinking that we are just not interesting to them at this time. And not just us , many civilizations that are like a coin, they (we) are going to self destruct or become enlightened a few times more to coexist with their(our) surroundings on another level of conscience.
Why would we have to know about advanced civilizations. If we assume they are advanced as you say, why would they not immediately understand that showing themselves to us would make a lot of us worship them like gods. When an intelligence exists on a whole different plane, we are just not interesting. It is the same principle religious people wonder and ponder about, God has no interest in slaves. Only in lifeforms who grow to a higher plane of existence.

 

[IronWing]

I'd board a generation ship tomorrow for the chance my grandchildren could make it to another habitable planet.

Is this your last ditch attempt at finding a mate?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

My point is that if there really are so many advanced civilizations out there, we would know about it by now. The only reason we wouldn't is if it turns out FTL travel isn't possible no matter how advanced you are, which I don't believe for an instant.

How exactly would we know about it by now? We've only been sending signals into the galaxy for 100 years, there could be a million advanced civilizations out there and they would have no idea we're here. Even if they theoretically could travel faster than light they would have no reason to come.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Is this your last ditch attempt at finding a mate?

Already married. She'd jump at the chance as well.

 

[FeuerFrei]

So lonely
So universal

 

[DietDrThunder]

It is kind of scary to think that we are alone in the universe. It is also kind of scary to think that we are not alone in the universe. STOP SENDING SPACE PROBES INTO THE UNIVERSE WITH DIRECTIONS LEADING THEM TO OUR PLANET!

 

[FeuerFrei]

It is kind of scary to think that we are alone in the universe. It is also kind of scary to think that we are not alone in the universe. STOP SENDING SPACE PROBES INTO THE UNIVERSE WITH DIRECTIONS LEADING THEM TO OUR PLANET!

Doesn't sound prudent, does it?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Doesn't sound prudent, does it?

Like a race capable of deciphering the contact info couldn't simply backtrack the trajectory.

 

[WelshBloke]

I'd board a generation ship tomorrow for the chance my grandchildren could make it to another habitable planet.

I really doubt that any other planet is going to be as "nice" to inhabit as this one. Even with the overcrowding and pollution.
We've evolved to fit a very specific ecology and that ecology has evolved with us.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I really doubt that any other planet is going to be as "nice" to inhabit as this one. Even with the overcrowding and pollution.
We've evolved to fit a very specific ecology and that ecology has evolved with us.

The idea our planet is unique in the universe is statistically unlikely as well as Humans can and will adapt to other environments. "Nice" is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[WelshBloke]

The idea our planet is unique in the universe is statistically unlikely as well as Humans can and will adapt to other environments. "Nice" is in the eye of the beholder.

I meant nice as suitable for human life in the long term with minimal health problems.
Earth probably is pretty unique. Most things are. Whether those little differences will matter is a pretty big thing to gamble your descendents well being on, and that's if you manage to find somewhere similar.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I meant nice as suitable for human life in the long term with minimal health problems.
Earth probably is pretty unique. Most things are. Whether those little differences will matter is a pretty big thing to gamble your descendents well being on, and that's if you manage to find somewhere similar.

"suitable for human life in the long term with minimal health problems" is what I meant as well. Most things aren't very unique. Exploration and adaptation is what humans are designed for. It's a gamble well worth taking.

 

[WelshBloke]

Exploration and adaptation is what humans are designed for.

We really aren't though. We do ok on the planet that we've spent millenia evolving to live on and even then the more inhospitable bits kill us easily.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

We really aren't though. We do ok on the planet that we've spent millenia evolving to live on and even then the more inhospitable bits kill us easily.

Take another look at the world we inhabit. It is only our ability to adapt and take advantage of the infrastructure previous generations have developed that allows us to exist in this planet. Imagine for whatever reason, petroleum disappeared over night, material science, plastics and, transportation disappearing would destroy our civilization over night leaving a few tribes in third world countries the inheritors of the planet.

 

[WelshBloke]

Take another look at the world we inhabit. It is only our ability to adapt and take advantage of the infrastructure previous generations have developed that allows us to exist in this planet. Imagine for whatever reason, petroleum disappeared over night, material science, plastics and, transportation disappearing would destroy our civilization over night leaving a few tribes in third world countries the inheritors of the planet.

Yup, so I'm not sure why you think that we'd find it any easier on a different planet that as suited to us.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Yup, so I'm not sure why you think that we'd find it any easier on a different planet that as suited to us.

It might not be easier, it might, on the other hand, in fact be easier. Either way limiting the future of humanity to one planet is foolish at best.

 

[Darwin333]

To get anywhere will require a physics trick I think. There may be a yet undiscovered hack that would allow us to cover huge distances, but if things are as they appear now, I think you're right.

Even if we did discover said physics trick you still have the matter of two trillion galaxies, not to mention individual star systems within those galaxies. If our physics tricks let us visit one galaxy a day it would take us roughly 5.5 billion years to visit them all and that doesn't give you much time to look around an entire friggen galaxy, something we have yet to be able to do in our own galaxy. If we built 250,000 of these ships that can jump from galaxy to galaxy in less than a day it would still take 22,000 years to simply visit every known galaxy, each with 100-200 million stars or so. Not to mention that is just our estimate on what we can currently observe, there may be many more galaxies that we aren't aware of yet. The truth is that even with better than sci-fi level faster than light travel the universe is just unimaginably huge, even with virtually instant travel and hundreds of thousands of sentient species we could never stumble across one in any meaningful timeframe.

 

[Darwin333]

people like to think they are special. remember that time people think earth is flat while everything in the sky is circular/round? actually, some still think earth is flat...
anyway, we cant possibly be that special to be the only "intelligent" life in the universe.

I sure as hell hope not or else the universe is a colossal failure and waste of space.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Even if we did discover said physics trick you still have the matter of two trillion galaxies, not to mention individual star systems within those galaxies. If our physics tricks let us visit one galaxy a day it would take us roughly 5.5 billion years to visit them all and that doesn't give you much time to look around an entire friggen galaxy, something we have yet to be able to do in our own galaxy. If we built 250,000 of these ships that can jump from galaxy to galaxy in less than a day it would still take 22,000 years to simply visit every known galaxy, each with 100-200 million stars or so. Not to mention that is just our estimate on what we can currently observe, there may be many more galaxies that we aren't aware of yet. The truth is that even with better than sci-fi level faster than light travel the universe is just unimaginably huge, even with virtually instant travel and hundreds of thousands of sentient species we could never stumble across one in any meaningful timeframe.

Why would we waste visiting those that didn't either have planets in the goldilocks zone or have massive amounts of minerals we were interested in? The farther out we go, the farther out our telescopes can see allowing us to further refine targets for investigation. There is no need to investigate every star. Even so, it would take a very long time. What's wrong with that?

 

[lxskllr]

Even if we did discover said physics trick you still have the matter of two trillion galaxies, not to mention individual star systems within those galaxies. If our physics tricks let us visit one galaxy a day it would take us roughly 5.5 billion years to visit them all and that doesn't give you much time to look around an entire friggen galaxy, something we have yet to be able to do in our own galaxy. If we built 250,000 of these ships that can jump from galaxy to galaxy in less than a day it would still take 22,000 years to simply visit every known galaxy, each with 100-200 million stars or so. Not to mention that is just our estimate on what we can currently observe, there may be many more galaxies that we aren't aware of yet. The truth is that even with better than sci-fi level faster than light travel the universe is just unimaginably huge, even with virtually instant travel and hundreds of thousands of sentient species we could never stumble across one in any meaningful timeframe.

You don't have to visit all of them, just the ones that have life(I'd bet probably all of them do). There's probably interesting shit in this galaxy if we could get there in a reasonable time to check it out. "I can't do it all, so I'll do nothing" is a defeatist attitude.

 

[WelshBloke]

It might not be easier, it might, on the other hand, in fact be easier.

Easier than living on a planet that's perfectly suited to us?

Either way limiting the future of humanity to one planet is foolish at best.

Well it might well be that we don't have a choice in that.

 

[Kaido]

it seems likely but here we are, not aware of any other life in the universe. what you do think?

Kaido's Book of Answers says yes. But, they are human too.

The only aliens are their weird pets.