RnR_au
Platinum Member
- Jun 6, 2021
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VirtualLarry
No Lifer
- Aug 25, 2001
- 56,587
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psolord
Platinum Member
- Sep 16, 2009
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Sure think mate. CHIA has proven gloriously, that mining has no impact on consumer electronics....
Mining increases the demand but is not the only issue, for example, there are Raspberry PI shortages and it even went up in price, and that thing cant be used for mining.
AMD discontinued 12nm APUs whiout a having a replacement ready. AMD also decided to discontinue Polaris RX550/RX570/RX580 in the middle of all this mess. AMD put all pressure on 7nm at the same time during 2021.
There is a reason why Intel recovered way faster of the initial peak in demand and today their prices are still more or less in line with what it used to be. (there are I3s at 110 area, what happened with the R3s at 100?).
Nvidia answer to this was... increase MSRP, bring back almost dead gpus and add a hashrate blocker that the only thing it does is making the miners have to buy more cards and screwing gamers that want to make a extra buck.
Intel answer to the GPU mess was to launch the super secret DG1 whiout a working bios, when they could have been selling those gpus as low end cards in the area of the 1030s.
Mining has been with us for over a decade now, even Linus said it cleary, there is another issue here, mining certanly makes things a lot worse, but if mining went away today that would not fix the wrong decisions in the last few years and it would NOT lower MSRPs that has been going up even before the mining craze. And ive been pointing out that prices were going up to hell before covid and the mining peak.
Im going to say this again, the RX5700XT launched in 2019 at $400, that card was meant to be called RX690, they had to change the nomenclature to hide the huge increase in MSRP vs Polaris... and this "was fine" for most people.
Nvidia did the same with the RTX 2000 MSRP increases with very little gain in perf, but "justified" by the "RTX effects" and also destroyed FPS. yeah.
But now its not them, no, its the miners fault. Come on.
AMD discontinued 12nm APUs whiout a having a replacement ready. AMD also decided to discontinue Polaris RX550/RX570/RX580 in the middle of all this mess. AMD put all pressure on 7nm at the same time during 2021.
There is a reason why Intel recovered way faster of the initial peak in demand and today their prices are still more or less in line with what it used to be. (there are I3s at 110 area, what happened with the R3s at 100?).
Nvidia answer to this was... increase MSRP, bring back almost dead gpus and add a hashrate blocker that the only thing it does is making the miners have to buy more cards and screwing gamers that want to make a extra buck.
Intel answer to the GPU mess was to launch the super secret DG1 whiout a working bios, when they could have been selling those gpus as low end cards in the area of the 1030s.
Mining has been with us for over a decade now, even Linus said it cleary, there is another issue here, mining certanly makes things a lot worse, but if mining went away today that would not fix the wrong decisions in the last few years and it would NOT lower MSRPs that has been going up even before the mining craze. And ive been pointing out that prices were going up to hell before covid and the mining peak.
Im going to say this again, the RX5700XT launched in 2019 at $400, that card was meant to be called RX690, they had to change the nomenclature to hide the huge increase in MSRP vs Polaris... and this "was fine" for most people.
Nvidia did the same with the RTX 2000 MSRP increases with very little gain in perf, but "justified" by the "RTX effects" and also destroyed FPS. yeah.
But now its not them, no, its the miners fault. Come on.
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Heartbreaker
Diamond Member
- Apr 3, 2006
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moonbogg
Lifer
- Jan 8, 2011
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I see miners saying they can't wait for GPUs to drop in price so they can buy them all. For what? I've seen in videos that as of now it takes about 18 months to pay off a GPU, and that's assuming profitability remains where it is. I say go for it. When 3080's drop to $1000, I hope they whip out the credit cards and buy 20 of them. I want to see pics of beautiful, brand new mining rigs with lots of expensive PSUs and cases and all sorts of expensive crap everywhere. I want to see that electric meter spinning so fast the bearings fly out.
UsandThem
Elite Member
- May 4, 2000
- 16,068
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Prices are beginning to go down, but with how high they were, it is going to take a long time for the price to hit "not totally insane" levels.
Mining ROI time needs to continue climb (deal with it Larry
) forcing scalpers (both retailers and flippers) to lower their prices, and for them to be forced to find a different investment avenue.
Mining ROI time needs to continue climb (deal with it Larry
) forcing scalpers (both retailers and flippers) to lower their prices, and for them to be forced to find a different investment avenue.
moonbogg
Lifer
- Jan 8, 2011
- 10,736
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Prices are beginning to go down, but with how high they were, it is going to take a long time for the price to hit "not totally insane" levels.
Mining ROI time needs to continue climb (deal with it Larry
Yep, it all has to die or the market stays wrecked permanently. Even money trees that only grow a few bucks per day would be perpetually sold out with no hope of adequate supply. That's what a few GPUs do right now. Miners who are still foaming at the mouth and desperate to seize their chance to join the cool kids will snap up as many 3080s as they can possibly go into debt to acquire at $1000 each. I'm talking mortgage loans, credit cards, selling their own children, etc. I hope they do so blindly and foolishly, because they will get absolutely torched financially. Let's be honest here, we're not just hoping for a market correction. We need PUNISHMENT.
In2Photos
Platinum Member
- Mar 21, 2007
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moonbogg
Lifer
- Jan 8, 2011
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In2Photos
Platinum Member
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moonbogg
Lifer
- Jan 8, 2011
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It certainly sounds like it. Maybe we can use some of that witchcraft to get prices back to normal as well.
Prices are beginning to go down, but with how high they were, it is going to take a long time for the price to hit "not totally insane" levels.
Mining ROI time needs to continue climb (deal with it Larry
Thats depends on who is paying scalper prices. You can be sure that no miner is paying 1650/1050ti/6500xt prices, yet, there they are. And only a miner who cant do math is going to pay scalper prices for 3050 and 3060s. Even GTX1660s are hard to justify for mining these days with the RX6600/XT avalible...
Don't fall for this obvious attempt to put all the blame on miners.
Well, if you sell money trees inflation will eventually make it impossible to keep buying them, the market will always self-correct, provided that we dont do something stupid to try to avoid it, that will always end up being worse in the end.
If someone is willing to get into serious debt to get a few 3080s to mine, i say let them. Reality will eventually catch up with them. Thats the same people who fall for "get rich quick" schemes.
Also those are the cards that will eventually end up in ebay.
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I remember this one scene from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles where Master Splinter gets trapped in Limbo. He knows there is nothing he can do so he sits down and meditates and waits for something to happen. That's what we all need to do. Wait, absolutely NOT pay scalper prices and let the greedy people suffer the consequences of their actions as they lose more than they gain when things do change.
It's not the end of the world. China hasn't invaded Taiwan. Things will get better. Gamers have the perfect opportunity to revisit old classics or play older games in their libraries that they never could get to playing before because they were always chasing the newest trending games.
It's not the end of the world. China hasn't invaded Taiwan. Things will get better. Gamers have the perfect opportunity to revisit old classics or play older games in their libraries that they never could get to playing before because they were always chasing the newest trending games.
AMD Store's Anti-Bot Measures Are No Match For GPU Scalpers | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)
Law enforcement is the only way. Scalping needs to be outlawed.
Law enforcement is the only way. Scalping needs to be outlawed.
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
- Aug 25, 2001
- 56,587
- 10,227
- 126
I think that I may have figured out a good anti-botting technique.
You would have to queue with a webcam, and you listen for audio (*randomly selected), and they would do a facial identification this whole time, to uniquely identify the potential customer, and responding in real-time to the audio cues, either raise or lower their left and right hands. After a few of those, they would be allowed to purchase a GPU.
This is verifiably basically unique ID, and having to "prove humanness" by being able to listen for and decode audio cues, and then visibly raise and lower hands/arms.
Yes, the physically-disabled people wouldn't be able to participate, but who cares. If they can't realistically raise/lower their hands/arms, they can't have much hope of holding a controller or a keyboard/mouse to be gaming on, either.
You would have to queue with a webcam, and you listen for audio (*randomly selected), and they would do a facial identification this whole time, to uniquely identify the potential customer, and responding in real-time to the audio cues, either raise or lower their left and right hands. After a few of those, they would be allowed to purchase a GPU.
This is verifiably basically unique ID, and having to "prove humanness" by being able to listen for and decode audio cues, and then visibly raise and lower hands/arms.
Yes, the physically-disabled people wouldn't be able to participate, but who cares. If they can't realistically raise/lower their hands/arms, they can't have much hope of holding a controller or a keyboard/mouse to be gaming on, either.
Scalping with physical stuff is no that much diferent from how a reseller works, or how you, me or anyone can sell your own stuff. There is literally nothing that can be outlawed, except maybe botting.
The only way to fix this is to increase production, and im not sure if they want to do it.
What's the point of more production if scalpers grab everything as soon as it becomes available? Resellers don't engage in price fixing and don't hike up prices two to three times higher. They compete with each other which brings the prices down closer to MSRP or even lower.
UsandThem
Elite Member
- May 4, 2000
- 16,068
- 7,383
- 146
Have you even looked at the retailers' pricing over the last 18 months?
The other way is to just sell at the market price, which is not only easier than magically increasing production, but also provides companies with the additional revenue they need to increase production.
If scalpers can't get something for any less than everyone else is willing to pay then there's no reason for them to purchase those products in the first place.
That's fueled by scalpers. They started this whole thing.Have you even looked at the retailers' pricing over the last 18 months?
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