The idea that Intel chipsets have no bugs is so ridiculous it's almost laughable.
Intel Chipset specification errata
Even Intel themselves are more then willing to list a dozen to in some cases hundreds of errata in any given chipset.
If you feel like writing to Intel they'll freely send you piles of documentation on known errata for almost any chipset you feel like learning about.
Chipsets so buggy they were recalled? The I820 + MTH
Server chipsets that don't even operate properly with ECC SDRAM? 440NX.
Want some PCI bus issues like VIA? Sure, the I810, I815, I820, I840, I845, I850 all have you covered there with interaction problems with PCI IDE controller cards when sustaining transfer rates over 80-90MB/s, been there for an awfully long time and remains unfixed.
Pick any Intel chipset you want, give me 5 minutes and I'll dig up a few 'major' errata.
Don't get me wrong, I love Intel chipsets. Stability/reliability/compatibility is almost undeniably unmatched for mainstream/low-end server chipsets.
Though admittedly part of that I attribute to that fact that developers are bound to test their products for compatibility issues with Intel platforms a HELL of a lot more strenuously then with other platforms, an example of this would be ATi testing AGP 8X pre-dominantly with Intel chipsets... even though Intel doesnt even have an AGP 8X chipset released on the market as yet.
Intel chipsets have bugs, and in some cases they have issues that have remained for well over a year through various chipset iterations without being touched. They've got bugs they publically state they have no intention of ever fixing.
As for my personal opinion on VIA?
I would NEVER dream of using any VIA chipset in a system in which 24/7/365 up-time was critical. VIA and servers is an absolute NO.
I wouldnt dream of using VIA in any system designed for high end audio/video production.
As for the mainstream and enthusiast market... I've got no problems using VIA.
Have used VIA in the past on my own personal systems, am using VIA now in some systems and will likely use them again at some point in the future.
Certainly they have bugs, but few major issues and almost nothing that will impact the majority of the enthusiast population and virtually no casual user.
Their definitely not on par with Intel... but then, who is?
In the end I'm reasonably comfrotable with VIA, I don't exactly love their chipsets... but they don't really annoy me much either.
PCI Bus master latency issues, and System Bus disconnect issues leading to excessive temperatures of K7 based systems are my biggest complaints with their latest chipsets.
Intel Chipset specification errata
Even Intel themselves are more then willing to list a dozen to in some cases hundreds of errata in any given chipset.
If you feel like writing to Intel they'll freely send you piles of documentation on known errata for almost any chipset you feel like learning about.
Chipsets so buggy they were recalled? The I820 + MTH
Server chipsets that don't even operate properly with ECC SDRAM? 440NX.
Want some PCI bus issues like VIA? Sure, the I810, I815, I820, I840, I845, I850 all have you covered there with interaction problems with PCI IDE controller cards when sustaining transfer rates over 80-90MB/s, been there for an awfully long time and remains unfixed.
Pick any Intel chipset you want, give me 5 minutes and I'll dig up a few 'major' errata.
Don't get me wrong, I love Intel chipsets. Stability/reliability/compatibility is almost undeniably unmatched for mainstream/low-end server chipsets.
Though admittedly part of that I attribute to that fact that developers are bound to test their products for compatibility issues with Intel platforms a HELL of a lot more strenuously then with other platforms, an example of this would be ATi testing AGP 8X pre-dominantly with Intel chipsets... even though Intel doesnt even have an AGP 8X chipset released on the market as yet.
Intel chipsets have bugs, and in some cases they have issues that have remained for well over a year through various chipset iterations without being touched. They've got bugs they publically state they have no intention of ever fixing.
As for my personal opinion on VIA?
I would NEVER dream of using any VIA chipset in a system in which 24/7/365 up-time was critical. VIA and servers is an absolute NO.
I wouldnt dream of using VIA in any system designed for high end audio/video production.
As for the mainstream and enthusiast market... I've got no problems using VIA.
Have used VIA in the past on my own personal systems, am using VIA now in some systems and will likely use them again at some point in the future.
Certainly they have bugs, but few major issues and almost nothing that will impact the majority of the enthusiast population and virtually no casual user.
Their definitely not on par with Intel... but then, who is?
In the end I'm reasonably comfrotable with VIA, I don't exactly love their chipsets... but they don't really annoy me much either.
PCI Bus master latency issues, and System Bus disconnect issues leading to excessive temperatures of K7 based systems are my biggest complaints with their latest chipsets.
Originally posted by: Insane3D
FUD level rising......must......get....shovel......
Dang! I wish I had your way with words, Insane - To the point. I looked at my previous message and I think people are going to have to have oxygen tanks to get through it. It seemed important at the time.
Looking at your 8K5A2 thread will give people a better idea about what VIA is really about than anything in this thread.
via is the best period. via chipsets are like intel chipsets for amd: smartly designed, useful features, excellent stability/compatability, great support, etc etc.
MadRat
Lifer
- Oct 14, 1999
- 11,999
- 307
- 126
If VIA didn't produce chipsets then AMD would have been sunk when SocketA was launched. Point being that AMD was unwilling to throw their own money into a market that is so tight of margin for trying to make profits. VIA excells in these markets because of their huge corporate base, something that AMD does not enjoy.
I thank the engineers at VIA for making the Slot-1 and Socket-370 chipsets for motherboards readily accessible before that, too. This really drove down the overall system price to where I now can run six to seven machines at a time if need be.
I thank the engineers at VIA for making the Slot-1 and Socket-370 chipsets for motherboards readily accessible before that, too. This really drove down the overall system price to where I now can run six to seven machines at a time if need be.
Originally posted by: nuller
I would recommend avoiding anything to do with AMD all together just because of all the chipset problems.. I've seen many bugs and incompatibility problems with all AMD chipsets that you just never run into with Intel. Maybe if AMD had some type of specific guidelines, and strict testing/licensing, things wouldn't be so bad. At least VIA probably wouldn't still be making crapper chipsets.
there was one bug between a specific sound card and one of their south bridges
Sorry dude but there's tons more problems than that. Almost all VIA chipsets have PCI timing issues, and all of VIA's chipsets up till about KT266A had a massive flaw that caused data corruption on the IDE bus. And have you ever heard of the infinate loop error? Most of the time it's caused by VIA/other AMD chipsets. Also, here's a funny quote from Epicgames, the marker of UT2003.. on their support web site they say "VIA chipsets in combination with NVIDIA cards and AMD CPUs seem to be a constant source of trouble". VIA/AMD just suck if you want a truly stable/problem free system.
Yawn...you're an idiot. I've been running nothing but VIA chipsets(except for my dual processor AMD rig) for umm..let me see...the last 14 systems I've built and never had a problem except with a Soyo Dragon Plus...And that was a Soyo problem...two blown boards that seemed to have an issue with two different power supplies...Soyo sucks, but not VIA.
Oh and I've had the same SB Live! card in 3 systems that were all VIA.
me too -- I don't know what people were talking about with "sb live via problems", I've had 2 diff versions of sb live in systems based off 4 different amd via chipsets in the past 4 years
Heh, the recent KT400 I think is a joke. Barley any preformence increase over the last kt333. I see perfect stablitiy IMHO. I can't stand Intel's Intergrated Graphics on the press sheet it is says 'Excellent game performence for tommarow's games' all it does is mislead consumers. Another thing is when looking at the Chipset industry with AMDs there isnt much choice. When the original nForce came out, the kt33 vitually came out the next day and overshadowed it.
Another thing is when looking at the Chipset industry with AMDs there isnt much choice. When the original nForce came out, the kt33 vitually came out the next day and overshadowed it.
grrl
Diamond Member
- Jun 21, 2001
- 6,204
- 1
- 0
tRaptor - PITA means Pain in the Ass
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can it definitely be said that the blame lay with VIA and not the SB Live? It's not possible to make a product 100% compatible with 100% of the cards out there(video, sound or otherwise).
Having said that, I'll also admit that I've never been able to resolve the static problem with my SB Live! and Abit KT7A (KT133a) mobo, although part of the problem may be Abit. The end result is I remain a bit suspicious of VIA and Abit and I'll never buy an SB again (partly because they were charging $10 for their driver update).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can it definitely be said that the blame lay with VIA and not the SB Live? It's not possible to make a product 100% compatible with 100% of the cards out there(video, sound or otherwise).
Having said that, I'll also admit that I've never been able to resolve the static problem with my SB Live! and Abit KT7A (KT133a) mobo, although part of the problem may be Abit. The end result is I remain a bit suspicious of VIA and Abit and I'll never buy an SB again (partly because they were charging $10 for their driver update).
Actually, it had more to do with a faulty ACPI header on the SB Live's part. The problem also only manifested itself in systems with the aging 686B southbridge. All of the southbridges since have not had this problem. I had a few KT7A's, and the boards were very flaky...and it was not due to the KT133A, it was due to Abit's implementation of it...at least on my boards. When I dumped them in favor of Iwill KK266-R's with the same chipset and same hardware configuration, all problems disappeared. If my problems were with the chipset itself, and not the Abit specifically, I would have had the same issues on the Iwill since it had the same chipset and hardware. Just an example to illustrate a point. However, when people have weird problems like that with their boards, their first thought is it must be the chipset.
I second that statement. The only real problem motherboard I have dealt with was a Soyo with an Intel 810 chipset. I am currently running 4 systems with Via chipsets, Apollo Pro 133a, KT133a, KT133E and my newest KT333. All have run great, stable and trouble free. Of course, 3 out of the 4 are MSI boards, so maybe that has more than a little to do with it. The KT133E is a Chaintech that was really cheap and still runs fine as long as you don't try to get aggressive with the memory timings, but my wife loves it with its' Duron 850.
Viva Via! I hope they continue to provide quality products at decent prices.
BFG10K
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2000
- 22,709
- 3,003
- 126
While I certainly prefer Intel chipsets I do know that it's certainly possible to have stable VIA/SiS chipsets. Having said that I also insist on Intel chipsets on the computers at work because I have enough work on my plate without dealing with flaky motherboards.
Also I think vendors are often to blame more than the chipset and for this reason I stick with Soltek and Gigabyte because I've proven to myself that they work.
Also I think vendors are often to blame more than the chipset and for this reason I stick with Soltek and Gigabyte because I've proven to myself that they work.
BD231
Lifer
- Feb 26, 2001
- 10,568
- 138
- 106
Originally posted by: MrGrim
I'm glad people like you exist, that will continue to buy VIA chipsets, so that I can get chipsets that work simply by following the user manual that came with them, at a better price.
It's funny, most people in this forum think that everyone with a computer knows what "VIA 4in1 drivers" is, or how to search the newsgroups, or visit Anandtech Forums to get help with their problems. It's not like that, simply because you can solve the problems that you encouter it doesn't mean that everybody else can. How on earth can you recommend to somebody a solution that is bound to have problems, on the grounds that they are solvable?
Don't feel the need to reply, I'm not looking for a conversation here; I've given up on people's common sense a long time ago. Most of you deny, dismiss or just laugh at other people's problems until they come after you. Then you start moaning on Anantech Forums about what a piece of crap VIA or Intel or whatever is. Well guess what, you have already recommended this "piece of crap" to a bunch of people that counted on your opinion.
I just hope that some day you will realise that when somebody is asking for an opinion the best way to help is to let the guy know of problems that you have experienced or heard of, not whether your system is stable or not. Of course your system is stable, everybody's system is stable; until it crashes and burns.
A lot of the comments on this thread are just as idiotic as the replies to dead HDs thread of the nature of "Well my IBM 40GXP is running just fine!"
Woah Woah Woah buddy, pop a midol and take a nap. It's obvious Via chipset's have pissed you off in the past, so insted of bashing other people who think differently on Via chipset issue's, why dont you describe your problems and hardware config, then give us your honest opinion on Via chipset's. Your post's are clearly biased and idiotic as well, SO, stop worrying about other people's common sense and try to find yours, stop trying to make people think they are dumb for not thinking everything Via is complete crap, and be happy that you have put somewhat useful input into this thread. How are people suppose to take you seriously when your post's are full of subtle insults? Your post's are that of a disgruntled little fan boy.
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
Whoa big fella, can you provide some independent sources to back up that statement or is it just FUD?
I've built about 10 pc's using various VIA chipsets (KT133A, KT266(A), KT333). All are very stable. There's much more to a stable system than just the chipset. Heat, OS, drivers, etc.
In my experience, VIA is just fine and I'll continue to build and recommend pc's based on their chipsets.
In my experience, VIA is just fine and I'll continue to build and recommend pc's based on their chipsets.
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
Thinking back I remember having trouble running a SBlaster Live card on a K62 300 mHz\Shuttle motherboard system. That must have been in 95 or 96. The Sblaster card would cause the system to put out a very low sound level with a lot of sound artifacts, crash, or repeat the same sound. The problem went away when I changed motherboards. Since then, six years and four AMD\VIA systems later, I have not had any problems.
You obviously didn't understand my post, I hope somebody did. You are calling me a fan boy when all I'm saying is "I've had problems with VIA, I don't know about SiS but Intel has treated me good". Can you blame me for giving up on your common sense? I think not.
MadRat
Lifer
- Oct 14, 1999
- 11,999
- 307
- 126
Why are you two attacking each other over this? VIA had a bad reputation built mainly on the SB Live! issue that was unfairly put on them. It was more of a Creative issue than VIA, but both shared the blame nonetheless. I've yet to run a newer south bridge than the 686B that has had this same problem. I have seen all but the latest VIA south bridges time out on large sustained file transfers over 1GB that work fine on a pos SiS730 chipset and the grand ole BX chipset from Intel. But not all VIA chipsets have timed out on me, so it is likely an implementation issue. Either way, VIA has treated me well and I appreciate what they've done to the market - motherboards have dropped to an affordable level in average selling prices for the last few years.
>It's funny, most people in this forum think that everyone with a computer knows what "VIA 4in1 drivers" is
>... How on earth can you recommend to somebody a solution that is bound to have problems, on the grounds that they are solvable?
>..... Well guess what, you have already recommended this "piece of crap" to a bunch of people that counted on your opinion.
>I just hope that some day you will realise that when somebody is asking for an opinion the best way to help is to let the guy know
>of problems that you have experienced or heard of, not whether your system is stable or not. Of course your system is stable,
>everybody's system is stable; until it crashes and burns.
I guess I missed your point too. If I exclude anything that I have had any problem with, that eliminates everything I have ever owned (for any length of time.) If I exclude everything with a problem I know from reading about it, that eliminates every piece of hardware I know about. If I attempted to list the possible problems I am aware of with any particular solution, my listener would grow fatigued after a few hours.
I have never had a system that was problem free for very long. Just keep adding and changing things, and at least every couple of changes will bring an unforseen difficulty (which I generally solve). This includes the four Intel chipset mobos I have owned. (VX, TX, BX, 810e). (The VX and TX did not have Intel processors.) I have no idea if Intel has been good to me or not.
I think what you are saying is "don't recommend VIA chipset mobos - they are crap - that is obvious if you need those 4in1 drivers." At the time I bought my Intel 810 chipset mobo, I had to load in special drivers for the 810 chipset. You are right, not everybody knows that. Did that make the Intel 810 crap? (Somebody is shouting yes! : ) ) I don't know the situation is with XP and the 845 chipsets, but at least at some point XP will need drivers for a new Intel chipset. Should we then not recommend the chipset because it is crap?
No - if you are going to install and set up your own hardware, you are going to have to learn some things, and they won't be included in every post about a mobo. Most of it is easy, it's just new to you. If you run into a problem, you will learn more than you anticipated. But it's fun!
KF,
Just another pleased VIA owner without any common sense.
>... How on earth can you recommend to somebody a solution that is bound to have problems, on the grounds that they are solvable?
>..... Well guess what, you have already recommended this "piece of crap" to a bunch of people that counted on your opinion.
>I just hope that some day you will realise that when somebody is asking for an opinion the best way to help is to let the guy know
>of problems that you have experienced or heard of, not whether your system is stable or not. Of course your system is stable,
>everybody's system is stable; until it crashes and burns.
I guess I missed your point too. If I exclude anything that I have had any problem with, that eliminates everything I have ever owned (for any length of time.) If I exclude everything with a problem I know from reading about it, that eliminates every piece of hardware I know about. If I attempted to list the possible problems I am aware of with any particular solution, my listener would grow fatigued after a few hours.
I have never had a system that was problem free for very long. Just keep adding and changing things, and at least every couple of changes will bring an unforseen difficulty (which I generally solve). This includes the four Intel chipset mobos I have owned. (VX, TX, BX, 810e). (The VX and TX did not have Intel processors.) I have no idea if Intel has been good to me or not.
I think what you are saying is "don't recommend VIA chipset mobos - they are crap - that is obvious if you need those 4in1 drivers." At the time I bought my Intel 810 chipset mobo, I had to load in special drivers for the 810 chipset. You are right, not everybody knows that. Did that make the Intel 810 crap? (Somebody is shouting yes! : ) ) I don't know the situation is with XP and the 845 chipsets, but at least at some point XP will need drivers for a new Intel chipset. Should we then not recommend the chipset because it is crap?
No - if you are going to install and set up your own hardware, you are going to have to learn some things, and they won't be included in every post about a mobo. Most of it is easy, it's just new to you. If you run into a problem, you will learn more than you anticipated. But it's fun!
KF,
Just another pleased VIA owner without any common sense.
I do tech support so believe me when I say "Via Sucks". About 90% of all issues that come in are on systems based on Via chipsets. And I am not referring to just 2-3 year old motherboards. Motherboards based on KT333 as well. It is so much damn hassle tweaking the motherboard with end users just because Via can't ever get it right. As much as I love AMD, I would rather have an Intel processor with Intel/SiS chipset motherboard than the fasest AMD processor and Via chipset any day. If Via disappeared off the face of this planet, it would make my world a much better place. My next motherboard will either feature an nForce2 or SiS chipset, depending on what price the nForce 2 come out at.
Really? I've had lots of them. My current (and overclocked) system has been 100% problem free since I put it together 8 months ago. The only time I've opened the case is to replace a GF3 with a GF4.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
I helped my buddy upgrade his machine a couple days ago.
MSI KT3 Ultra2
Athlon XP 1700+
256MB DDR
Radeon 8500LE 128MB
WD800BB
We used his old case, CD, etc. This was the easiest build I've ever done. Yanked the old hardware, put the new stuff in, hooked up the cables, turned it on and that was it. Installed Windows, a couple drivers that shipped with the motherboard, the Radeon drivers, and we were done. Absolutely nothing went wrong.
I can't see how Intel could have done things any easier.
MSI KT3 Ultra2
Athlon XP 1700+
256MB DDR
Radeon 8500LE 128MB
WD800BB
We used his old case, CD, etc. This was the easiest build I've ever done. Yanked the old hardware, put the new stuff in, hooked up the cables, turned it on and that was it. Installed Windows, a couple drivers that shipped with the motherboard, the Radeon drivers, and we were done. Absolutely nothing went wrong.
I can't see how Intel could have done things any easier.
MadRat
Lifer
- Oct 14, 1999
- 11,999
- 307
- 126
I've cascaded way too many parts way too often to claim perfect stability in many of my systems, Intel and VIA chipset alike.
<<No - if you are going to install and set up your own hardware, you are going to have to learn some things, and they won't be included in every post about a mobo. Most of it is easy, it's just new to you. If you run into a problem, you will learn more than you anticipated. But it's fun!>>
Thumbs up.
pillage2001
Lifer
- Sep 18, 2000
- 14,038
- 1
- 81
That's just plain FUD. It's more like 20 people with stable systems and one without a stable system.
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