I got a 500w one with 28A on +12V and was wondering if its enough to power an E6850, 8800 GTS/GTX?, and 3 SATA HDDs?
Are Ultra V-Series decent PSUs?
- Thread starter delirium
- Start date
JEDIYoda
Lifer
- Jul 13, 2005
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A review...
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com...wer-supply-review.html
Conclusion-- by--SKYMTL
HardwareCanuck Review Editor-----While the test results don?t show it, the Ultra V-Series were to a certain extent a great pleasure to work with. Their cables are extremely long for budget power supplies and they were whisper quiet. In addition to that, they come with Ultra?s Lifetime Warranty which should give the consumer piece of mind if they decide to purchase one of these power supplies. The V-Series definately have a leg up against other power supplies when it comes to pricing because Ultra has priced these two power supplies very competitively.
When looking at the benchmarks, the V-Series? design definitely seems like it is on the back nine in terms of performance in certain areas. When not pushed, both the 400W and the 500W units performed well within the norms but when the load increased, worrying tendencies began to rear their heads. In particular, the lack of ripple suppression and utterly horrid efficiency in the 400W version marred what would have been a good 400W unit.
In closing, there is nothing to indicate that the V-Series are horrible power supplies (a horrible power supply would have blown itself to smithereens); rather they have their own niche in our marketplace. They occupy a place that is rife with consumers looking for budget power supplies to power ever more power-hungry systems. Both the Ultra V-Series 400W and 500W power supplies perform passably under normal circumstances but do not expect them to perform any better than their price would have you believe.
Peace!!
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com...wer-supply-review.html
Conclusion-- by--SKYMTL
HardwareCanuck Review Editor-----While the test results don?t show it, the Ultra V-Series were to a certain extent a great pleasure to work with. Their cables are extremely long for budget power supplies and they were whisper quiet. In addition to that, they come with Ultra?s Lifetime Warranty which should give the consumer piece of mind if they decide to purchase one of these power supplies. The V-Series definately have a leg up against other power supplies when it comes to pricing because Ultra has priced these two power supplies very competitively.
When looking at the benchmarks, the V-Series? design definitely seems like it is on the back nine in terms of performance in certain areas. When not pushed, both the 400W and the 500W units performed well within the norms but when the load increased, worrying tendencies began to rear their heads. In particular, the lack of ripple suppression and utterly horrid efficiency in the 400W version marred what would have been a good 400W unit.
In closing, there is nothing to indicate that the V-Series are horrible power supplies (a horrible power supply would have blown itself to smithereens); rather they have their own niche in our marketplace. They occupy a place that is rife with consumers looking for budget power supplies to power ever more power-hungry systems. Both the Ultra V-Series 400W and 500W power supplies perform passably under normal circumstances but do not expect them to perform any better than their price would have you believe.
Peace!!
Have 400V and 500V (free AR). Decent PSU. No problem with the 8800 GPU, E4300 @ 3.46GHz, and one HDD. Two more HDDs should also work with your 500. Ultra's X-Finity line is also very good. These units have better voltage regulation. They are more efficient (75 to 77%) at nominal load. Why pay for a PSU when you can get these units from Fry's for FREE AR?
I have the 400W unit. It was 70 cents after rebate.
(39 cents postage, 31 cents oppotunity cost on unearned interest @ 5% APR for 3 months)
It works, but I don't like the build-quality on my unit. I can't say the quality of construction is the same for their other units, but this holds true for my particular unit.
label
Upon disassembly, I found the circuit board was filthy with flux residue.
dirty circuit board
There were droplets of solder spill where they don't belong.
Solder droplets
Upon total disassembly, this solder ball, about half the size of BB bullet fell out of the power supply.
If this was to fall out and get on your components and cause a damage, I'm not sure what would happen. Their warranty liability statement says they're not liable for consequential damage and their liability is limited to $50 or the price you paid for the power supply, whichever is greater.
solder ball
Ultra Products units come with a limited lifetime warranty. The lifetime warranty is only valid for you the original, retail buyer. It is no null and void once it is no longer in your ownership.
http://ultraproducts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1246
http://www.ultraproducts.com/P..._Lifetime_Warranty.pdf (warranty is not transferable)
http://www.ultraproducts.com/warranty_info.php (registration is required within 30days)
PC Power & Cooling, although their warranties are 3 or 5 years they've confirmed the warranty is on the product by serial number independent of ownership. The written documents does not address transfer of ownership, but I contacted them and verified this myself.
For cheap bottom end product, it's a no big deal, but if you're in the market for a higher priced units, this is something you want to think about. For example, if you get a $280 X3 1000W and you sell it to a friend six months later, the warranty is void the instant it is no longer in your ownership. If it fails on him, he's got an expensive paper weight.
All valid points. However, I don't see a lot of posts about Ultra 400/500/600 going up in smoke. I've personally lost two Antec SP PSUs, but never an Ultra.
Would I pay $ for Ultra PSU? Not sure cause I'm spoiled will all these FREE ULTRA units. Fair value for Ultra 500/600 is at least $15. If you're concerned about the two 85C primary filter caps, then replace them with 105C Japanese caps. These Ultra units have adequate air flow to keep the internal components from failing.
I can't say much about the Ultra-V on performance in higher end systems, but I bought one to replace the dying PSU in my old gateway comp (P4 3GHZ) and it's very quiet and stable. I can't hear my computer at all now after replacing the old PSU.
I use my FREE AR Ultra X-Finity 600 with the 8-pin plug as the primary bench test PSU. Runs cool and quiet. Very good voltage regulation.
Mine works fine too and wouldn't have found the loose solder ball rolling about if I hadn't totally taken it apart. Heck, you could dump a few screws in there and I'm sure it would still work until something shorts out, or they fall out and short out your board.
More power to you if you're willing to live with that possibility.
Ahhh...been there, done that. Also did some internal wiring to improve cooling. No sloppy solder joint or lose solder ball with my unit. Actually, all my free Ultra PSUs were free from any internal defect.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/V-Series/V-Series.html
The 500 probably can handle it, but I wouldn't put that power supply int he rig you mentioned, but that's me. I like to play it very safe.
The 500 probably can handle it, but I wouldn't put that power supply int he rig you mentioned, but that's me. I like to play it very safe.
What your saying just means your good samples don't imply they're all good and my bad sample doesn't imply they're all bad.
As I said in earlier posts, warranty loss is not a big deal on their free after rebate units for most people but the same limitations on LIMITED lifetime warranty apply to all of their limited lifetime warrantied products.
For a PSU that cost this much, it's not something most people can ignore.
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd...do?oid=181703&ref=lmcd
So if it ever comes the time to sell it to anyone either on its own or with your computer(you might say you won't, but if you upgrade, or don't need that PC, need funds for something else, it can happen) you have no choice but to sell it as AS-IS NO MANUFACTURER'S WARRANTY, which I think affects the resale value a lot.
75-77% isn't good by today's standards. 80-85% is what's expected out of today's efficient power supplies. Why pay for a Lexus when you can get a Kia Spectra for <$10,000 with a lot of warranty remaining?
I still drive my 87 Mazda. It's reliable and dirt cheap to operate/insure. As for efficiency, it will take several years for me to save $10 with an 80% PSU. My cost is less than 50 cents with the Ultra. I have half a dozern around the house. That should be good till 2010. I give away my PCs in exchange for tax credit...minus HDD.
If the efficiency difference is unimportant, why did you even point it out? I actually think it's important.
What calculation did you use?
Let's say you have a high end computer that uses 200W average (cumulative over 24hrs divided by 24)
285.7 W in @ 70% eff quoted on Ultra Product's page.
235.29 W in @ 85% eff
50.41W diff = 441.6kWh/year with 24/7 operation. 10.65 cents/kWh(2007 national average http://www.npga.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=914)
$47.03 difference in power usage + ~$15.68 in increased load on A/C = $62.71 difference per year.
If your computer is very low in power use, you don't use it 24/7 and you live in the Province of British Columbia, then maybe your $10/several years maybe right.
When you say "my cost is less than 50 cents with the ultra". I believe it was $40-40 rebate =0, but did you consider your state's sales tax, lost interest revenue and postage?
$40 x 6 = $240.
$ 240 x 0.05 = $12 sales tax
You also lose the use of that $252 = $3.15 in lost interest earning
41 cents x 6 = $2.46 in postage
All that divided by 6 = close to $3.00/ea
I use a calibrated AC ammeter connected in series to measure the TRUE efficiency of a PSU at any load. My overclocked E4300 @ 3.46GHz is drawing 90 actual watts at idle, and 190 watts under Orthos Large mode. Nominal load is 140 watts, max (being generous since PC idles 50% of the time). Most people keep their PCs ON 12 hours per day. Again, being generous by assuming that PC does not go into any power-savings mode when not in use.
An efficient PSU is good up to about 82% at 140 watts. My Ultra 500 X-Finity is 76% efficient @ 140 watts, while the Ultra 400 V is a little lower at 72%. Therefore, under normal use (140 watts load), the Ultra would draw 184 watts from the wall, vs 171 watts for the efficient PSU.
Cost of electricity in S Cal is 20 cents per KWh. Add another 5 cents for misc taxes. I would save 13 watts/hour (184-171) with the use of an 82% efficient PSU. Over the course of one year (12 hours x 365 days or 4380 hours of ON time), the savings will be 5.69KW (0.013 x 4380). Final annual savings with 25 cents per KHh is $14.24 (5.69 x 0.25).
I figure a minimum of $70 plus tax for that fancy +80% efficient PSU. My cost is a 41 cents stamp for the Ultra X-Finity 500. I can put $69.59 in a money market fund with 5% yield for a net gain of $3.48 per year (no compounding interest). Subtract $3.48 from $14.24 will result in an annual adjusted savings of $10.76 for the efficient PSU. It's going to take 6.5 years to break even with a more efficient PSU.
No fuzzy math with my numbers.
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3040&p=11
An efficient PSU is good up to about 82% at 140 watts. My Ultra 500 X-Finity is 76% efficient @ 140 watts, while the Ultra 400 V is a little lower at 72%. Therefore, under normal use (140 watts load), the Ultra would draw 184 watts from the wall, vs 171 watts for the efficient PSU.
Cost of electricity in S Cal is 20 cents per KWh. Add another 5 cents for misc taxes. I would save 13 watts/hour (184-171) with the use of an 82% efficient PSU. Over the course of one year (12 hours x 365 days or 4380 hours of ON time), the savings will be 5.69KW (0.013 x 4380). Final annual savings with 25 cents per KHh is $14.24 (5.69 x 0.25).
I figure a minimum of $70 plus tax for that fancy +80% efficient PSU. My cost is a 41 cents stamp for the Ultra X-Finity 500. I can put $69.59 in a money market fund with 5% yield for a net gain of $3.48 per year (no compounding interest). Subtract $3.48 from $14.24 will result in an annual adjusted savings of $10.76 for the efficient PSU. It's going to take 6.5 years to break even with a more efficient PSU.
No fuzzy math with my numbers.
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3040&p=11
Power factor has NOTHING TO DO with efficiency. Go to your local library or use GOOG to get smart.
The use of a PF correction circuit will reduce the efficiency by a very small amount.
The use of a PF correction circuit will reduce the efficiency by a very small amount.
The Ultra PSUs are better now than they were initially but they still aren't on my buy list. My Antec (made by Seasonic) SU-380 (380W) has 28A combined on the +12V rails...
.bh.
.bh.
I have no problem recommending Ultra X-Finity 500/600 if they are FREE AR. I use the 600 as the reference PSU for my bench test rig.
Just because they taught you volt x amp = watt for DC circuit doesn't me its for every situation. If you don't know the input power factor, you don't know the input power. Don't impose your ignorance on me.
Input power = V * A * PF. PF can range from 0.5 to 0.995 on computer power supplies depending on the presence of power factor correction. Your calibrated AC ammeter(which you didn't if it's even true RMS or its model) is worthless at calculating AC watt, because it won't resolve the power factor.
Power factor has nothing to do with efficiency, but you have to know it in order to know the input power and you can't calculate efficiency without having both the input and output power.
Perhaps you should go to the library and read up on efficiency. You can't measure the TRUE efficiency without measuring the power going in and out simultaneously and taking the quotient of the two.
True efficiency of the PSU is AC input power (V x A at the wall) vs DC output power (V x A at the secondary side of the PSU). In the US, power factor is only a concern for business owners because they are billed on power used vs total apparent power supplied. US home owners are billed based on the amount of current flow across the electric meter. The meter does not assest a penalty if you have a device that has 0.7PF vs 0.99PF! The rotating disk found on most mechanical meter is an induction motor whose speed of rotation about its central shaft is governed by the Hall Effect. More current = more rpm.
Why ask about True RMS when I've already stated that the test meter is calibrated? Have you set foot in a metrology lab?
Why ask about True RMS when I've already stated that the test meter is calibrated? Have you set foot in a metrology lab?
Wow, I didn't realize how clueless you are. Do you understand the concept of power factor? If your computer is using 150W, it doesn't matter if your power factor is 0.5 or 1, but it does matter when you're trying to calculate the wattage. Utility company's billing has nothing to do with how power factor affects the relationship between V * A and true power.
So you've got 120v 2.0A. You don't know how much watt you're actually using. You're not going to figure out power with an ammeter, period. Even if the power factor is perfect, you're ASSuming input voltage is 120v, which it usually isn't (as it doesn't stay at 120.000v)
This explains how AC power is measured.
http://www.yokogawa.com/tm/tr/tm-tr0605_01.htm
Because the two are COMPLETELY irrelevant. What makes you think it's not possible to have a calibrated average responding meter? Both true RMS meters and regular meters can be calibrated, but only true RMS will correctly measure the current waveshape typical of computer loads correctly, which you likely have no freaking idea what I'm talking about anyways.
What brand and model meter do you have?
More mindless rambling? Guess I lie well enough to fool all the EE folks at the largest US airplane company. Go back and review the power triangle and the relationship between resistance, capacitance, and inductance loads.
I don't need to prove anything to anyone on this forum. If you cannot understand the relationship between true power, reactive power, and apparent power then go to your nearest high school science department and ask for a refresher course. There's nothing complicated about sinusoidal waveform with an operating frequency of 60Hz. Any first quarter Calculus student can find the area under this curve as a function of time. Add phase-shift and voila... Unless you live on Fantasy Island, you'll never have to worry about paying a price premium on electricity with a 0.7PF PSU.
This is not triple integral/surface of revolution or differential equations with multiple variables.
This is not triple integral/surface of revolution or differential equations with multiple variables.
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