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are there TH7IIRaid board with the ICS 9212-13 clockgen?

W

willempie

Junior Member
Hi,

Still trying to figure out this one.
Are there TH7II Raid boards with the ICS brand 9212-13 DRCGs or are they all with the ICS brand 9212-03 DRCGs?

Many thanks
Cheerios
 
I'm still trying to figure that out too! I gather from reading posts in other forums that some are still getting ICS-*-03 DRCGs, or even worse the CYP DRCGs as recently as last month. Most people believe these poorer chips are only found on older boards, which must mean that the vendor you order from may still have a few of the older boards "in stock". I've seen at least one post that claimed it was the older board that had the better DRCGs; I hope that's not true.

Another issue people have struggled with is the BIOS. If you plan to mate this board with a P4A (and what else would you be doing today 😉), then you'll want a baord with version 38 BIOS. Version 37 does NOT really support all Northwoods, at least not the P4 1.6A. There are many reports of people with version 37 and the P4 1.6A not being able to boot at all (error 29), which means they can't flash to the new BIOS either. Your options at that point are to find a non-Northwood P4 so that you can boot and then flash to version 38, or pay Abit for a new BIOS chip (~$15 with shipping), or RMA it. For some reason, there are people who are able to boot up and flash -- who knows why!?!
rolleye.gif


Older boards also have on-board AC97 sound while newer boards have the AC2001.

So...here I sit...trying to figure out how I can assure myself that I can buy a TH7II-RAID with the ICS-*-13 DRCGs, version 38 BIOS, and the AC2001 on-board sound. No one seems to carry these boards locally, and I haven't found an on-line vendor that guarantees any of this. (Check out the disclaimer Googlegear has on their THII7's...yikes!)

Wille, I know this doesn't help at all. I hope others will bail us both out!

THANKS! 🙂
 
PowerEngineer, couple of questions:

Do the boards with the ICS -13 chips definitely have the 38 BIOS? At least you can visually tell if the board has ICS-13 chips.

Can you tell visually (from the chip), if the board has 2001 sound?

So would a board with the ICS-13 and 2001 sound chip definitely have the 38 BIOS?
 
I'm starting to doubt if the ICS -13 equiped TH7IIs are even out there.
Anyone sure about them actually being made?
The asus PT4-E might be an alternative...sorta..

cheerios
 



<< Do the boards with the ICS -13 chips definitely have the 38 BIOS? At least you can visually tell if the board has ICS-13 chips. >>



I don't know for sure (after a while all the posts I've read seem to run together). I think that some people who report having ICS chips (either the 500 GHz -03's or the 600 GHz -13's) ended up with version 37 BIOS.



<< Can you tell visually (from the chip), if the board has 2001 sound? >>



Yes, I think so. I may be wrong, but believe the AC97 and AC2001 might be part of the labelling on the sound chips. We might be able to confirm this by looking through other motherboard reviews because these are fairly common on-board sound capabilities. I haven't really spent time on this yet because the other two issues loom larger.



<< So would a board with the ICS-13 and 2001 sound chip definitely have the 38 BIOS? >>



I don't know. This is why I find this more than a little frustrating 🙁 . Without more information, buying a TH7II seems like playing russian roulette three times (chips, BIOS, sound); I don't like my chances of winning all three. Hopefully someone who knows these boards (I haven't even seen one 😱 ) can help us sort through these issues.
 
I'm in Japan and in Akihabara, Tokyo, there are like 12 places that sell motherboards. Most have them on display. When I go there this weekend, I might take a look at a couple of boards to see what's on them. Except the lettering, particularly of ICS chips, are real faint and hard to see.

On the other hand, most of the display boards are early boards. I might take a gander at what I think is a new batch of boards. I'm not in the market for an Abit board (got two ICS-13 P4T-Es 🙂).

I'll let you know what I find out. But I'm not sure why Abit would want to use ICS-13 chips anyway; I know Asus for sure wants to hide the fact.
 
Thanks Clevor! That might prove very helpful indeed. I'm also wondering if there might be hint in the board designation and/or serial numbers that might correspond to a "good" TH7II.

Your suggestion that Abit and ASUS might not want people to know about the better clock chips is a new idea that hadn't occurred to me. That would seem strange given that these boards are clearly intended to satisfy the needs of overclockers. That said, starnger things have happened...

If I can't figure out how to get a "good" TH7II, I might be asking where you got your "good" P4T-E's 😉

Thanks ZZZZ! That's what I figured. I've rechecked the ABIT site (along with more vendors) and they all specify the AC97 on-board sound. I'm pretty sure I read a post claiming AC2001 on a TH7II, but maybe I misread it.
 
PowerEngineer:

How do I know Asus does NOT want the ICS-13 P4T-E board in overclocker's hands? The same reason I got a spare board: I posted earlier about this, but 2 weeks ago, a major store here was liquidating 2 stacks of brand-new P4T-E boards for $94 U.S. They normally go for $177 U.S. I checked the board on display and sure enough, it had the ICS-13 chips!

They were selling the boards as 'junk' boards with no Asus warrantee (they took out the Japanese warrantee card). 'Course for me, don't matter since Asus USA don't use a warrantee card 🙂, so that's why I picked up another board. Plus my other ICS-13 P4T-E is used.

No doubt Asus told the store to do that and replace them with the latest batch with Cypress chips. I checked every store that day and all the old boards were taken off the shelves, substituted with a new batch that had an unusual label for Asus (large lettering).

If you've ever dealth with Asus before, mention overclocking and they treat you like you got the plague (don't know why, they make great overclocking boards).

I know there are some real extreme overclockers here, but I really don't see a majority of the Japanese overclocking. I'm the only one going around looking at motherboards with a magnifying glass. I see guys buying a Northwood 1.6a, 256 MB of Samsung PC800, and an MSI board (ouch!).

Sorry, no offense intended to you MSI guys 😀.
 
I have a TH7II-RAID. Got it from mwave about a month ago and it came with the ICS -13 chips and the 38 bios. The sound was AC97 though. Another place to look for the sound is in the bios. It will either say AC97 or AC2001 when you go to disable it.
 
Not sure what the correlation is between the BIOS version, DRCGs and type of onboard sound on these TH7-II/TH7-II raid?
I ordered mine 2 weeks ago from Newegg, got it last week. The baord is a TH7-II, no raid, had the "37" BIOS, and the ICS 9212-03 (does 4x at 133 anyway), but also the soundchip is marked "AC 2001".
Guess it is a "crapshoot"
 
Clevor, thanks for sharing your experience with ASUS. Intentionally downgrading their boards seems really strange...

LarryJoe and Ginfest, thanks! I've already learned quite a bit about your experiences with Th7II from your posts on overclockers.com.

LarryJoe, I'm tempted to conclude that your mwave board with the 38 BIOS is newer board, and encouraged that it has the good clock chips. Maybe I'd get the same by ordering from mwave. It is interesting, however, that Ginfest has AC2001 on-board audio while you have AC97. I would have assumed that this indicated his is a newer board too, but then that board had 37 BIOS and the so-so clock chips!
rolleye.gif
Ginfest, I agree with you -- it seems like a "crapshoot".

If I sit on this fence much longer, I'll probably end up waiting for the next cycle of products. If you haven't seen it, check out this post on new ASUS motherboards Maybe an ASUS P4T533 will end up being my choice (as long as it has the good clock chips 😉 )

 
No problem.

As far as determining factors, I would say the newer bios would the 1st best indicator (it is timestamped), the sound chips and ICS chips have been out longer than the 38 bios.
 
Ah, Larry Joe my former 6BA+IV brother-in-arms, that's a mighty nice overclock you got there.

The new Asus boards coming in April/May look very sweet.

I would like to hold out for them but I really need to put another computers together so I think I'll go with a TH7 II board and then check out the new ones.

Nice overclock on that 2.0.
 
Yes Zzzzz, I have an extra P4T-E, but not sure the used one I got is OK (haven't gotten the rig up yet). They test the boards here to see if it boots, but intermittent problems won't show. At least that board has a Japanese warrantee card. So I may need to use the spare board.

Now on Saturday, if I see a TH7-II RAID with ICS-13 chips, AC2001 sound, and 38BIOS (stamped on the BIOS chip?), hmmm, I may part with one P4T-E 😀.

 
Clever - the bios chip will not be marked. By timestamped, I meant the board is at least as new as the date the 38 bios came out if it comes loaded with it.

Duke! - What's up man? Yeah, I couldn't wait any longer, I even threw in a PIII 1000e for about 5 days before I put the BX to rest and up on the auction blocks. Great mobo and ride there though. You will be happy with the TH7II. LMK if you have any questions.

LJ
 
Well, I'll add my experience so far. I got two sticks of Samsung original PC800 8 device 256MB. Ordered a TH7II-RAID & 1.6A from newegg. Got here with the AC2001 sound codec but the '03 ICS. Also has the old bios.

I did call Abit and since it I just got the board, they're sending me a new BIOS chip right out for free. Didn't even ask for the serial number or anything. Should have it in less than a week and I'll know more from then...
 
Boy, this post really fell far back.

Anyway, I checked out about ten TH7-II boards in Tokyo on Saturday, both RAID and non-RAID, and all of them had the AC2001 sound chip and ICS-03 chips. Even the display boards were like this. I tried going into small stores to look at what I thought was old stock but they still had the same board.

I really doubt any boards came with the ICS-13 chip; if they did, the factory probably threw in a batch of those chips by mistake once.

It seems to me Abit pulled all the boards off the shelf with the wrong BIOS and substituted the latest AC2001/ICS-03 boards, but that doesn't explain why Jatwell got the old BIOS on his.

But doesn't the ICS-03 do pretty good anyway?
 
Thanks Clevor! And I was afraid the thread was going to fall out of the forum before you were able to get back to us...very glad that didn't happen! 😉

LarryJoe does report (earlier in this thread) that he received a TH7II-RAID from mwave with the version 38 BIOS, the -13 chips, and AC97 sound. On the other hand, both Jatwell and Ginfest received TH7II's (RAID and non-RAID) from newegg with the version 37 BIOS, the -03 chips, and AC2001 sound. Based on what you've discovered in Japan, I'm inclined to agree with your conclusion that the newer boards are the ones that are sporting the -03 chips and the AC2001 sound. Although it seems possible, even likely, that these might still have the version 37 BIOS. It is good to hear from Jatwell (and at least one other) that ABIT is sending out version 38 BIOS chips free of charge -- something they weren't doing earlier.

It may well be that better -13 chips are now being reserved for the upcoming 133 Mhz FSB boards that ABIT (and ASUS) must be ready to announce next month. I suppose they might not want too much competition from their own 100 Mhz FSB boards either. 🙁 Maybe I'm just to much of a conspiracy theory nut.

My understanding is that the CYP chips are only stable up to 400 Mhz, the ICS-*-03 chips are good to 500 Mhz, and the ICS-*-13 chips are good to 600 Mhz. If this is right, then you should be able to achieve a 133 Mhz FSB overclock with reducing the ratio to the RDRAM with the -03 chips (which is what Ginfest and others have been able to do).

Well, I feel a little more certain of what I'd be likely to receive if I order a TH7II. But I am starting to think I might wait just a little longer to see what the new 133 Mhz FSB boards look like. That ASUS P4T533 sure sounds nice... 😀
 
Just a note here. You still need RAM that can to 533. Mine can not. It is a total crap shoot. I run it at spec 400 when I am at 2.7.
 
Question? Where exactly do you look for these chips on the board? I plan on looking around some local computer stores this week to see if I can find a board with this particular memory clock generator. Also if anybody know where this chip is located on the Asus P4T-E pease tell. Thanks.

(I have the pdf manuals for both boards so if you can give me a general location by describing the components aroudn the chip it will be helpful.)
 


<< If this is right, then you should be able to achieve a 133 Mhz FSB overclock with reducing the ratio to the RDRAM with the -03 chips (which is what Ginfest and others have been able to do). >>



Just a note, I have the "-03" DRCGs as you know, but mine are working at 533 (4x133). I haven't tried any higher FSB as 2.1G flies, but may this weekend and get back to you.
I also am curious if anyone thinks the abit 6-layer PCB or those "OC Strips" on the back of the board are helping the rdram run stable at the higher FSBs?
I also haven't figured out if the "Differential Current" setting in Softmenu III has any bearing on the overclock ability of the Rdram? I have mine at the default "6X", but there is a thread on the THG Forums where people claim that the "4X" setting helps the OC. Does anyone know if the Asus board has this setting, and if it helps?
I still wonder if some of these "-03" parts are really the higher speed chips "marked down" to fill an order, or if the yield is just so good that the tolerances are higher?
Be interesting to know how ICS produces these DRCGs, are two different chips made at two diff speeds or are the all the same process, then "binned"?
 
GHZ, the ICS clock generator chips are located near the RIMM slots of both the P4T-E and TH7-IIR. They are usually about an inch to the side of them. There are two on each board, one for each pair of RIMMs. They are about 3mm x 7 mm. Problem is, the lettering is real faint on the ICS chips so it's hard to see, and glare can be bad from overhead lighting. It helps to have a magnifying glass. On the P4T-E, it should say either CYP or ICS somewhere on the chip, so it's a no brainer. On the TH7-II, it will say ICS and you have to check the last two numbers.
 
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