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Discussion Are there moderates here?

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GodisanAtheist

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2006
2,704
1,186
136
I'd like to think I'm fairly moderate.

Funny thing, earlier in the election cycle Donald Trump was accusing Joe Biden of stealing his platform (from DT that is) and saying imitation is the highest form of flattery and all that.

Oddly enough, given that the things I like least about the DT presidency is.. well... Donald Trump (DT's erosion of out institutions and the lack of any sort of clear direction or achievable end goal of his policies) the argument that sleepy Joe was going to basically take some fundamentally good ideas from DT and just execute them properly, while tossing out some of the garbage policies, actually calmed my nerves somewhat when voting...
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,949
4,062
136
I'd like to think I'm fairly moderate.

Funny thing, earlier in the election cycle Donald Trump was accusing Joe Biden of stealing his platform (from DT that is) and saying imitation is the highest form of flattery and all that.

Oddly enough, given that the things I like least about the DT presidency is.. well... Donald Trump (DT's erosion of out institutions and the lack of any sort of clear direction or achievable end goal of his policies) the argument that sleepy Joe was going to basically take some fundamentally good ideas from DT and just execute them properly, while tossing out some of the garbage policies, actually calmed my nerves somewhat when voting...
That's my big question. What are Republicans voting FOR!
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
4,201
1,565
136
People who:
  • Understand why both sides are they way they are
  • Use data, information, and logic to analyze each policy instead of siding with a party no matter what
  • Have a good heart, and a brain
  • Pro business and pro people
  • Don’t like radicals on either side
  • Think things aren’t always black and white
  • Value safety, security while wanting to abolish systems that hold many minorities back
  • Support the police but also want to keep police in check and continuously implement changes to make them a better force for society
  • It’s ok to help people when they fall but don’t implement policies that incentivize entitlement
  • Supports legal immigration and immigration for really talented people but doesn’t think America should provide a home for every poor person in the world
  • Think America does many things right but understand that other countries can do things better and America can learn from them

I’m just wondering if there are people like me out there or are most people really left or really right?
I think this describes 99% of people on this forum but unfortunately only 60% of America. Society.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,278
1,055
126
People who:
  • Understand why both sides are they way they are
  • Use data, information, and logic to analyze each policy instead of siding with a party no matter what
  • Have a good heart, and a brain
  • Pro business and pro people
  • Don’t like radicals on either side
  • Think things aren’t always black and white
  • Value safety, security while wanting to abolish systems that hold many minorities back
  • Support the police but also want to keep police in check and continuously implement changes to make them a better force for society
  • It’s ok to help people when they fall but don’t implement policies that incentivize entitlement
  • Supports legal immigration and immigration for really talented people but doesn’t think America should provide a home for every poor person in the world
  • Think America does many things right but understand that other countries can do things better and America can learn from them

I’m just wondering if there are people like me out there or are most people really left or really right?
OP, watch out the 2nd from last sentence about immigration or you would be label as "xenophobic", "racist", "hater" from many posters here. I said it so many times already that we should use the points system as Australia/Canada is using right now.

I agreed with most if not all of your points (not sure about pro big business such as FB, Google, WM, etc. but I am all for small biz). I want everyone to follow the Constitution and the laws as whole and not pick and choose the ones he/she wants. Totally agreed with you about a helping hand temporarily but not a handout for generation and generation.

You want moderates? Here is one example of NOT - https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/non_political-china-coronavirus-thread.2575795/page-475#post-40343768 (still waiting to see what I wrote in the quote was "idiot" or wrong/invalid and so far, nothing). So much for "use data, information, and logic to analyze" , eh? :D

Or this one - https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/the-official-2020-general-election-returns-thread.2586724/page-113#post-40344456 see how many times Latinos that didn't vote for D were called as stupid/morons and other name calling/insulting. You make the call.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
31,578
10,328
146
OP, watch out the 2nd from last sentence about immigration or you would be label as "xenophobic", "racist", "hater" from many posters here. I said it so many times already that we should use the points system as Australia/Canada is using right now.

I agreed with most if not all of your points (not sure about pro big business such as FB, Google, WM, etc. but I am all for small biz). I want everyone to follow the Constitution and the laws as whole and not pick and choose the ones he/she wants. Totally agreed with you about a helping hand temporarily but not a handout for generation and generation.

You want moderates? Here is one example of NOT - https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/non_political-china-coronavirus-thread.2575795/page-475#post-40343768 (still waiting to see what I wrote in the quote was "idiot" or wrong/invalid and so far, nothing). So much for "use data, information, and logic to analyze" , eh?

Or this one - https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/the-official-2020-general-election-returns-thread.2586724/page-113#post-40344456 see how many times Latinos that didn't vote for D were called as stupid/morons and other name calling/insulting. You make the call.
This is how a butt hurt idiot responds to being called an idiot
 
Feb 4, 2009
28,359
8,915
136
That's the moderate left you're describing.
People who:
  • Understand why both sides are they way they are
  • Use data, information, and logic to analyze each policy instead of siding with a party no matter what
  • Have a good heart, and a brain
  • Pro business and pro people
  • Don’t like radicals on either side
  • Think things aren’t always black and white
  • Value safety, security while wanting to abolish systems that hold many minorities back
  • Support the police but also want to keep police in check and continuously implement changes to make them a better force for society
  • It’s ok to help people when they fall but don’t implement policies that incentivize entitlement
  • Supports legal immigration and immigration for really talented people but doesn’t think America should provide a home for every poor person in the world
  • Think America does many things right but understand that other countries can do things better and America can learn from them

I’m just wondering if there are people like me out there or are most people really left or really right?
Problem is the right has moved so far right even a fiscal conservative is considered left leaning.
There are tons of moderates just nobody on the right notices them. They have shown to be 100% incapable of making any deals with unless they get everything and you get nothing. Not a good foundation for negotiationing, fuck even the President Ghost Written book says that.
 

zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
2,730
1,773
106
The main difference between many Democrats and Republicans is their stance on abortion.
 
Feb 4, 2009
28,359
8,915
136
Problem is the right has moved so far right even a fiscal conservative is considered left leaning.
There are tons of moderates just nobody on the right notices them. They have shown to be 100% incapable of making any deals with unless they get everything and you get nothing. Not a good foundation for negotiationing, fuck even the President Ghost Written book says that.
Moderate left? Better luck finding a unicorn.
See what I mean
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
12,039
6,597
136
I agree that on policy positions, there isn't much extremism on the left. In the area of identity politics, however, this "woke" culture has gotten quite extreme. The "defund the police" rhetoric was just one example of it.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
31,578
10,328
146
I agree that on policy positions, there isn't much extremism on the left. In the area of identity politics, however, this "woke" culture has gotten quite extreme. The "defund the police" rhetoric was just one example of it.
I'm not disagreeing with you here, but for comparison, conservatives woke culture:

1. Religion - the original woke culture, with a really long history of being militant

2. Qanon - conservatives new woke culture.
 
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Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,115
3,073
136
Not really. You let your extremists do the majority of your talking - and the moderates feel ostracized to remain quiet.
Have you considered perhaps it's only those that you hear and react to?

Dems nominated and elected Biden.
 
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senttoschool

Golden Member
Jan 30, 2010
1,536
212
106
I agree that on policy positions, there isn't much extremism on the left. In the area of identity politics, however, this "woke" culture has gotten quite extreme. The "defund the police" rhetoric was just one example of it.
I don’t think you’ve spent enough time on Twitter and Reddit. The extreme left is all over the internet and they’re really scary to me.

The extreme left has deep victim complex, thinking that they’re not all billionaires is because corporations or the radical right is keeping them down. And the reason they don’t own a 4bed/3ba home with a nice yard in a nice neighborhood is because of rich NIMBYs. And they can’t stop doing drugs and working as a waitress because they’re gay or a minority. They think the only reason other people make more money than them is because they were luckier or cheated their way to the top. Success from hard work? Impossible. They think society owes them. They don’t understand that 3rd world country citizens would kill to have their opportunities and that they can work hard to improve their socioeconomic. Often, these are the same people who get student loans and have audacity to use some of that money on a vacation and then want all their student loans forgiven.

They support handouts to poor people but only if it’s not their own money. They think their values are above the moderates and the right because they think of themselves as not racists.

Reddit is full of these people. I totally get why the radical right think these people are socialists and communists.

Also, San Francisco, where I grew up, is full of these people too. They basically want every property in San Francisco to get converted into public housing so they can live in the most expensive city in the world for cheap. But only they can. They don’t want others to also come take their cheap apartment. To them, all landlords are evil and leeches in society but all tenants are noble. In Silicon Valley, the lower class think Google chefs and janitors should get the same salary as Google Engineers. Lyft and Uber drivers should earn enough to own a $1 million Bay Area home.
 
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pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
7,444
2,655
136
I agree that on policy positions, there isn't much extremism on the left. In the area of identity politics, however, this "woke" culture has gotten quite extreme. The "defund the police" rhetoric was just one example of it.
Again, seems to me the 'defund the police' is merely a way of making a perfectly sensible point (that resources need to be shifted from brute-force policing as a means of social-control to things that actually _help_ people and reduce the drivers of crime), in language that expresses the anger many feel at how the actual-existing police behave towards them.

On the other side, you get guys like Bob Krull, giving speeches that seem to imply some of the police see themselves as Trump's private army, serving their political agenda rather than the public good (something that probably goes right back to the origins of many US police departments with their alarming overlap with KKK branches).

 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
12,039
6,597
136
Again, seems to me the 'defund the police' is merely a way of making a perfectly sensible point (that resources need to be shifted from brute-force policing as a means of social-control to things that actually _help_ people and reduce the drivers of crime), in language that expresses the anger many feel at how the actual-existing police behave towards them.
Then "defund the police" was a really bad way of saying it. The ordinary and typical meaning of those words was scary to many Americans. And subsequent comments made it worse. For example, when that Minneapolis city council woman appeared on CNN, and when asked about whether people would get help from emergency services if someone broke into their house, her answer was, "well, getting that kind of service is an example of white privilege." With no attempt to reassure the citizens of her city that emergency services would stay in tact.

It was political malpractice on a massive, national scale.
 

ecogen

Golden Member
Dec 24, 2016
1,189
1,239
136
I don’t think you’ve spent enough time on Twitter and Reddit. The extreme left is all over the internet and they’re really scary to me.

The extreme left has deep victim complex, thinking that they’re not all billionaires is because corporations or the radical right is keeping them down. And the reason they don’t own a 4bed/3ba home with a nice yard in a nice neighborhood is because of rich NIMBYs. And they can’t stop doing drugs and working as a waitress because they’re gay or a minority. They think the only reason other people make more money than them is because they were luckier or cheated their way to the top. They think society owes them. They don’t understand that 3rd world country citizens would kill to have their opportunities and that they can work hard to improve their socioeconomic. Often, these are the same people who get student loans and have audacity to use some of that money on a vacation and then want all their student loans forgiven.

They support handouts to poor people but only if it’s not their own money. They think their values are above the moderates and the right because they think of themselves as not racists.

Reddit is full of these people. I totally get why the radical right think these people are socialists and communists.

Also, San Francisco, where I grew up, is full of these people too. They basically want every property in San Francisco to get converted into public housing so they can live in the most expensive city in the world for cheap. But only they can. They don’t want others to also come take their cheap apartment. To them, all landlords are evil and leeches in society but all tenants are noble. In Silicon Valley, the lower class think Google chefs and janitors should get the same salary as Google Engineers. Lyft and Uber drivers should earn enough to own a $1 million Bay Area home.
Top tier fanfic.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,949
4,062
136
Then "defund the police" was a really bad way of saying it. The ordinary and typical meaning of those words was scary to many Americans. And subsequent comments made it worse. For example, when that Minneapolis city council woman appeared on CNN, and when asked about whether people would get help from emergency services if someone broke into their house, her answer was, "well, getting that kind of service is an example of white privilege." With no attempt to reassure the citizens of her city that emergency services would stay in tact.

It was political malpractice on a massive, national scale.
Thing is. Seattle is significantly reducing their policing budget. City council is really out there. This is what Seattle voted for. It will be an interesting experiment.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,775
376
136
If you ask a conservative, I'm a radical liberal. I truth is I'm financially conservative and socially liberal. There is tons of excess spending that can be rolled back. But I don't give a damn what someone does with their life. It's their life.

If they want to chop their dick off and say they're a girl.... I'll cringe at the thought and say it's your life.

If a person is gay again their choice. Who am I to say what they should do.

If you say hey let's raise taxes, I'm going to question why and hold them accountable to their words.

If you say your going to cut taxes the same question applies. The trump tax cut was just a corporate giveaway.

The covid relief stuff has been a lot of the same. Companies do tons of stock buybacks instead of keeping a healthy cash reserve. If you want handouts, you better be willing to give up something.

We have a massive debt that needs to be addressed. That kind of shit needs to be addressed first before a tax cut.

At the same time the right screams about the cost of Medicare for all ignoring all other things around it. Yes, it's expensive, but what do you think my private Healthcare is? My employer pays a crap load, I pay a crap load, so if that's offset by increased taxes, that's OK with me. Private Healthcare/insurance is a disaster. ACA has actually slowed it, but it doesn't go far enough.

I look big picture, not just my personal impact.
 
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