Are there (gated) communities in US where guns are not allowed?

[FIVR]

Is there a place in Europe that's free of Europeans?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey

I think it fits the bill.


Geographically European and member of NATO
Estimated 70-75% Ethnically Turkish
Estimated 90% Muslim (75% sunni)

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey

I think it fits the bill.


Geographically European and member of NATO
Estimated 70-75% Ethnically Turkish
Estimated 90% Muslim (75% sunni)

Maybe Europeans aren't so bad after all.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm not so much talking about the mass shootings. Isn't it so most people are killed by guns in domestic situations, even by accident.

Still find it strange that no communities in the US have decided to make rules prohibiting guns.

No government entity can straight out ban guns but a homeowners association could.

If you're looking for a relatively gun free situation you're probably out of luck but the more affluent areas of major cities are areas where you're unlikely to encounter a gun. I've lived in New York for almost seven years now and I've never seen a gun in an affluent area.

 

[fskimospy]

Yes, and no. An HOA cannot place restrictions on race, sex, religion, national origin, marital status or children. So there's that.

Those are laws, not constitutional restrictions. The constitution (with a few exceptions) only applies to the government.

 

[fskimospy]

Found your answer:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/real-estate/news/fl-gary-singer-col-11142016-20161108-story.html

Q: Some of the board members in our community are considering a rule that no firearms can be kept anywhere on the grounds, including in our own homes. Can they do this? — Alan

A: No. This proposed rule is far overstepping the board's authority and would be unenforceable. Considering the close living arrangements and thin walls in a condominium, I can understand why the board may be concerned. However, this is not an area that a condo association should be addressing. The law is well-established that people are allowed to keep a firearm in their homes.

The right to keep a gun in your home for self-defense is seen by the Supreme Court as a fundamental right. Similarly, your association can't put any restrictions on the firearm, such as requiring it to be kept unloaded.

"This makes it impossible for citizens to use them for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional," Justice Antonin Scalia said in 2008.

For the same reason, the type of weapon can't be restricted to only rifles, for example. If the owner may otherwise legally own a firearm, the association can't place additional restrictions on keeping it in the home.

The issue of carrying guns in the common areas of the community is a little more complicated. Still, there is a strong preference against allowing the association to make restrictions. Under state law, there are certain places where people who can otherwise legally carry firearms are restricted, such as schools and courthouses. There also are restrictions on how a gun may be carried in public, such as making sure the gun is out of view. All of the same restrictions will apply in condo common areas even though the unit owner technically owns a small portion of the common areas of the community. These areas are not considered part of the person's home.

If your community has a good reason for a restriction on concealed carry in a common area, it needs to consult with an attorney to make sure that it is not opening itself to an expensive and difficult lawsuit.

This seems deeply wrong. IANAL but absent a state or federal law that prohibits discriminating on the basis of firearm ownership the person that wrote that seems full of shit. It seems perfectly within the purview of an HOA to say that you can't have guns much like they can tell you what color you can paint your house or whatever else.

Your right to possess a weapon is only a right that says the government can't take that away, not that an HOA can't. (Which is a voluntary association)

 

[Herr Kutz]

Yes, head to your nearest jail.

 

[Amused]

This seems deeply wrong. IANAL but absent a state or federal law that prohibits discriminating on the basis of firearm ownership the person that wrote that seems full of shit. It seems perfectly within the purview of an HOA to say that you can't have guns much like they can tell you what color you can paint your house or whatever else.

Your right to possess a weapon is only a right that says the government can't take that away, not that an HOA can't. (Which is a voluntary association)

You may note the extent of an HOA's power seems to stop at the exterior of the house? Just a thought.

If you have evidence to the contrary, let's see it.

 

[fskimospy]

You may note the extent of an HOA's power seems to stop at the exterior of the house? Just a thought.

If you have evidence to the contrary, let's see it.

While I don't have experience with HOAs in particular I do have experience with condo associations and co-op boards. These boards are absolutely able to restrict the interior contents of an apartment, which usually consists of rules banning pets. (They care a lot about carpets too!) I see no reason they couldn't ban guns if they wanted.

Regardless, whatever restrictions an HOA would have would come from state or federal law, not the constitution. The constitution offers you zero protection from private associations saying you can't have a gun.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

You may note the extent of an HOA's power seems to stop at the exterior of the house? Just a thought.

If you have evidence to the contrary, let's see it.

HOAs can ban/limit pets. Granted, you're only going to get fined when they see or hear the pet (something not likely to happen with a gun), but the line isn't set outside the home.

 

[Amused]

More info:

https://www.hoaleader.com/public/Guns-and-Your-HOA-What-to-Know-About-Concealed-Carry-Laws.cfm

 

[Amused]

A more in depth look, and a case where one HOA tried and failed:

http://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1019&context=jcl

 

[fskimospy]

More info:

https://www.hoaleader.com/public/Guns-and-Your-HOA-What-to-Know-About-Concealed-Carry-Laws.cfm

Your link seems to basically confirm what I said, that HOAs can ban guns so long as state laws don't prohibit it.

 

[Amused]

Your link seems to basically confirm what I said, that HOAs can ban guns so long as state laws don't prohibit it.

Yeah, like I said, I'm mostly guessing here. But my guess would be it would be very difficult and costly to fight for an HOA, that's why none have tried past the first contest.

 

[DarthKyrie]

Move to New Hampshire. The gun homicide rate is only a few times higher than in Belgium, and the overall homicide rate is actually lower.

Hell, we have one of the lowest crime rates in the USA here in New Hampshire and most firearm owners are hunters.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

A more in depth look, and a case where one HOA tried and failed:

http://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1019&context=jcl

I bet there's a big difference between trying to implement that ex post facto and in writing it into the charter of a brand new development. They might have trouble selling homes in a new community with a rule like that, but it seems like it would be pretty hard to challenge it as the only people with standing to fight it would be homeowners who already agreed to it.

That being said, it doesn't seem like a very good idea to advertise something like that. It's like waving a red cape in front of criminals: "Yoo Hoo!! Over here!! No homeowners armed and capable of fighting back."

 

[Zaap]

Found this interesting in relation to this thread:

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Belgium/United-States/Crime#2014

While crime levels are of course overall lower in Belgium than the US, it's the stats for FEAR of crime that I find interesting.

The stats for "Feels safe walking alone... Worries about being attacked... Worries about being mugged..." and Belgium scores worse than the US in those categories.

I'm just left to wonder, are people just more paranoid there?

Honestly, what real good is an actual lower crime rate if people are going to live in fear as if there's just as high a chance of crime anyway?

And in general, people are a bit silly about crime. Living virtually anywhere in a first world nation, if you're a citizen not involved in crime yourself, living in a fairly decent area of whatever city (yes, even the most violent ones) don't wander around in seedy areas late at night, etc... you're just not that likely to ever personally be threatened by violent criminal activity. You're also way more likely to be assaulted or even murdered by a family member or friend long before the chance of it just being some random psycho.

 

[cytg111]

Is there a place in Europe that's free of Europeans?

Sure, just like there is places in America where there be no Americans.

 

[Newbian]

Yup, knifes be illegal too.
Next.
.
(it does raise interresting questions as to how are you gonna transport your new set of kitchen knifes home from the shop.. In principle you cant)

Must make cutting a steak a pain in the ass.

 

[cytg111]

Must make cutting a steak a pain in the ass.

Its absurd, true.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

OP you are barking up the wrong tree if you are asking for Americans to tell other Americans not to use or own guns. The US has an estimated 1.4 guns per person if you include the US mil weapons, which is the highest int he world by a margin of ~40% . If you take away all the mil guns we are just about equal to countries like Yemen and Iraq where every family owns a gun because there are terrorists all over the place. Americans are of the feeling that "more guns = safer" no matter how many children die. If their own child dies, they will complain... but they will be drowned out by all the gun nuts. And the US is comprised of like 30% gun nuts, at least.

Best to stay out of the US and other 3rd world s-holes and stick to Europe if you want sane gun regulation.

Yeah go to safe spaces like NK

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm not from Europe and find it very disturbing how almost everybody in most European countries is allowed to walk around with a knife, since knives are involved in just as many murders as guns and FAR more violent (non death) crimes than guns, even in the U.S. where general gun ownership is allowed, and knives and blunt instruments are used exponentially more in Europe. Therefore I was wondering if there are any neighbourhoods where knife/blunt instrument possession is not allowed, so if you wanna live somewhere where the more commonly used weapons are not allowed except for police like in Europe.

(Just wanted to reword things slightly to show that physical, inanimate objects are not the problem...)

It's OK to be a victim of violent crime as long as it's not with a gun I suppose. I suggest the OP avoid the UK as well because if a similar statistical methods are used he's as likely to be harmed or killed. Well maybe not by a gun, but that doesn't matter much after the fact.

 

[fskimospy]

It's OK to be a victim of violent crime as long as it's not with a gun I suppose. I suggest the OP avoid the UK as well because if a similar statistical methods are used he's as likely to be harmed or killed. Well maybe not by a gun, but that doesn't matter much after the fact.

Comparing crime rates between countries is incredibly hard. Unless you're counting things like murders where there's a body everyone can agree is dead the standard for most crimes varies a ton. It's certainly possible that there are more overall violent crimes in the U.K. but someone is absolutely not equally likely to be killed there. It's not even close. By guns or other means (usually guns) the US has a much, much higher mirder rate.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Comparing crime rates between countries is incredibly hard. Unless you're counting things like murders where there's a body everyone can agree is dead the standard for most crimes varies a ton. It's certainly possible that there are more overall violent crimes in the U.K. but someone is absolutely not equally likely to be killed there. It's not even close. By guns or other means (usually guns) the US has a much, much higher mirder rate.

What I've found, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the UK reports convictions while in the US it's incidents. If you have a sources which have a neutral bias (AKA no agenda) which accurately compares death rates by the same standard I'd like to see it.

If anyone wants to compare US statistics without regards to the vast diversity of the US as a whole I suggest looking at VT where there are virtually no handgun restrictions and allow for statistical variation and I think we'd find that it sits well with fixed cultures in the EU.

Some areas of the US don't care about life and some do.

 

[Bitek]

There are actual crime statistics we can compare.

The US has a murder rate of 3.9 per 100k, meanwhile Belgium has a rate less than half (1.8).

So yes, the US is more violent, but also a very large country, so lots of opportunities to make news. Crime tends to be concentrated, so some cities come off like 3rd world hell holes.

That said, banning guns as part of a private community? Sounds like a sure-fire plan to attract lawsuits and media attention for arguably little benefit. Not going to happen.

 

[Genx87]

Does Belgium have a raging war on drugs going on for decades? I'd love to see our murder rate if we got rid of the turf wars over black market drug sales.