True....it doesn't matter what you set out for but what you get as a end result.
But the OP's question was....
"When you do something for someone, is it not primarily to bolster your own self-image ?"
And I say that some people (not all people) do things for others totally for the other people's benefit
and not for the benefit of the "doer" and they don't necessarliy "do" in order "to bolster
their own self-image".
I know of one. You save someone from a diasaster on your way home from work. You then DISAPEAR after the incident so no one knows you did it. You don't get Hero status...a BJ from the victim (if female) or any cash reward.
edit: satisfaction of knowing you saved a life? maybe....fulfillment? maybe.
edit: satisfaction of knowing you saved a life? maybe....fulfillment? maybe.
Wrong. You may have gotten one of the following out of saving that person:
1.) Warm, fuzzy feeling inside.
2.) If you are religious, perhaps rewards in the afterlife.
3.) You may have stolen things from work that you somehow feel saving someone will have made up for (karma).
Incidentally, women aren't the only people who give out oral sex.
Originally posted by: polm
Originally posted by: jyates
Hey....remember you started the thread there buddy
sorry. That thread about Pot must have given me a contact high.
truth is, I think your reaching.
Would you continue to perform these so called selfless acts if they caused you discomfort and no feeling of accomplishment, joy, etc. ??
Your original question was..........
"When you do something for someone, is it not primarily to bolster your own self-image ?
I'm not saying that a feeling of well being or satisfaction of doing for others isn't a benefit of doing
but I don't believe that every person who "does" for others is doing it "to bolster their own self-image".
And I don't think that anyone in the world can "do for others" without feeling some sense of
accomplishment after the deed is done.
I am not quite sure I understand the people who say that there is no such thing as a totally selfless act. I understand that many ppl do stuff to get recognition, or reward points or something, but cannot say that there is no one that ever does something for no other reason than because it is a nice thing to do. Or because it is the right thing to do. There are certain things that people do that actually cost them, both short and long term, that they get nothing in return for.
If there are truly no selfless acts and no selfless serving people then this world would be totally fvcked up with no hope.
I think the behaviour of the ppl on 9/11 is a fine example of the selfless acts of others, especially the ones that crashed the plane into the ground to save others.
If there are truly no selfless acts and no selfless serving people then this world would be totally fvcked up with no hope.
I think the behaviour of the ppl on 9/11 is a fine example of the selfless acts of others, especially the ones that crashed the plane into the ground to save others.
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: GiLtY
Reminds me of a book that I've read like two years ago, it's called "The Selfish Gene". Basically the guy talks about how every action is the result of the gene wanting to survive. Early on in the book he talked about altruism and how true altruism is almost non-existant, an interest read if you are into biology/philosophy. BUT, the book is fairly pessimistic, so you have been warned
--GiLtY
richard dawkins
its not pessismistic... just realistic
Realistic yet sad
. I did like the chapter where he was optimistic about a city in S.A for their closeness to nature and efficient transportation system.--GiLtY
bullshit, telling me I get an ego boost from doing things for other people, when i buy a homeless person a meal, i end up short of cash but thats it. I dont get a pat on the back, I dont give myself a pat on the back.
Thats not to say that I am altruistic all of the time, sometimes I pass the bum up, sometimes I do feel good about myself, others I just tell myself I that I cant afford to do that. I identifiy with people down on their luck, they are people after all , and I feel that if I can do anything to help, I should.
Thats not to say that I am altruistic all of the time, sometimes I pass the bum up, sometimes I do feel good about myself, others I just tell myself I that I cant afford to do that. I identifiy with people down on their luck, they are people after all , and I feel that if I can do anything to help, I should.
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
I am not quite sure I understand the people who say that there is no such thing as a totally selfless act. I understand that many ppl do stuff to get recognition, or reward points or something, but cannot say that there is no one that ever does something for no other reason than because it is a nice thing to do. Or because it is the right thing to do. There are certain things that people do that actually cost them, both short and long term, that they get nothing in return for.
If there are truly no selfless acts and no selfless serving people then this world would be totally fvcked up with no hope.
I think the behaviour of the ppl on 9/11 is a fine example of the selfless acts of others, especially the ones that crashed the plane into the ground to save others.
that's what people mean... if you do something because it is "nice" or "the right thing", then you get a warm and fuzzy feeling inside. you do it because you want to be nice, you want to do the right thing. you might not get any other reward, but that is reward in and of itself.
that's not really what the OP is saying, but yea.
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
I am not quite sure I understand the people who say that there is no such thing as a totally selfless act. I understand that many ppl do stuff to get recognition, or reward points or something, but cannot say that there is no one that ever does something for no other reason than because it is a nice thing to do. Or because it is the right thing to do. There are certain things that people do that actually cost them, both short and long term, that they get nothing in return for.
If there are truly no selfless acts and no selfless serving people then this world would be totally fvcked up with no hope.
I think the behaviour of the ppl on 9/11 is a fine example of the selfless acts of others, especially the ones that crashed the plane into the ground to save others.
That's not a good example because they could have possibly known that they would have been remembered as heroes or martyrs. Moreover, it's not necessarily true that if there were no selfless acts/people that the world would be in a bad state - you see, the problem with being an egoist, looking after your own interests alone, is that if everybody plays your game, you can't get anywhere, and society will not get anywhere. Therefore, while people are egoists at heart, they must be to some extent altrusitic in order to realize some personal gain from living in society or being a participant in the social contract.
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,143
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I don't have to. I know that you are full of crap.
You stated that you can identify with them being down on their luck. So you are doing something to help. The reward you get is a sense of honor, accomplishment, satisfaction and hope. again these are rewards for helping. which stops it from being a selfish act.
have you taken a ethics or philosophy class? they go into it.
It doesn't matter if your net financial statement is -$5 after the act, whether you're short a limb or die in the process. What is relevant to the act itself is what you stand to gain out of it, whether it be a pittance, a fuzzy feeling inside, or recognition from peers, supernatural, or other. I find it hard to believe that you don't feel good inside after doing X, Y, or Z act which could be deemed 'good' in a general sense - I certainly do, and while I don't feel bad feeling good I do recognize that there is some sort of inner desire to feel that feeling which pushes me to do it, and I don't think that's necessarily right.
Edit: As Waggy says, philosophers argue about this back and forth - it's all nicely summarized in the short but dense Kant text.
I think if you sacrificed your life to save someone else's life, that would be pretty damn self-less. I personally believe that there is nothing after death...so there isn't even the remote-est possibility of ego there. Unless you get your highs on having people speak well of you at your funeral...but somehow I figure that'd be the last thing on your mind if the above-mentioned situation occured.
Once again, martyrdom, fame, or being remembered. While the action is to be applauded (perhaps), that act has no worth in a moral context unless it is done out of duty - duty being the only impetus behind that action.
most people that put their lives in harms way for others say something the lines of "i couldn't have lived with myself if i didn't" or something like that. you get the point...
what about those who view such actions as their duty to humanity?
nice to see so many people dedicated to old philosophers
Ok, let me see if I understand.
Doing something that is the right thing to do, or is just a nice thing to do cannot be considered selfless.. because the feeling of 'warm & fuzzy' inside makes it selfish. Therefore, it cannot be considered truly selfless?
Is that the opinion?
Seriously, I am trying to understand that concept.
Doing something that is the right thing to do, or is just a nice thing to do cannot be considered selfless.. because the feeling of 'warm & fuzzy' inside makes it selfish. Therefore, it cannot be considered truly selfless?
Is that the opinion?
Seriously, I am trying to understand that concept.
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