Are there any REAL macbook competitors?!

[kevinsbane]

maybe i was using it wrong the last time i tried one (years ago), but the only thing i can compare it to is using a gamepad to navigate - much like the ps3's cursor controlled by the analog stick. Has it changed since then?

Never used a ps3 cursor controlled by analog stick. I would imagine there are 3 big differences that make it better:

1. Pressure sensitivity - the trackpoint is adjustable and is pressure sensitive; it goes faster depending on how hard you push it.
2. No actual moving needed - technically you do move, but unlike the analog stick, the movement is on the order of fractions of a millimetre to use it properly. It sounds like this is a bad thing for precision, but you'll find that it is actually a big plus once you get used to it. Trying to imagine using a PS3 analogue stick in my head feels horrible... but in personal experience, this is not the case with Trackpoints.
3. Positioning - switching between keyboard and trackpoint is seamless. There is no context switching between using a keyboard and mouse. Sometimes I've typed with one hand while playing with the trackpoint in the other.

The biggest drawback to trackpoints (and really the only one I can think of) is that you need to get used to it. The other being that you don't have gestures. Gestures aren't as big a deal since your hands are on the keyboard anyways, so you'd use keyboard shortcuts for whatever you want.

By far the hugest advantage to trackpoints is the ability to fully utilize the keyboard AND mouse at the same time without having to move your hands. Like now, even as I type this post, I feel like trying to scroll my post up and down to check it even though I don't have a Trackpoint.

And theres no way scrolling is better on that than apples trackpad. two finger "natural" smartphone like scrolling is awesome, and is one reason why i almost prefer browsing the web on my air than on my desktop.

No comment. Personal preference for myself is, again, not smooth scrolling since that just blurs too much for my own comfort on LCDs. Trackpoint scrolling is very similar to a scroll wheel, except you don't actually need a mouse and you don't have to move your hands off the keyboard. Really, you don't realise how good it is to be able to do that until you can't anymore.

EDIT: But again, you need to get used to it. I forced myself to use it for a week before I became addicted to the thing.

 

[TheStu]

Never used a ps3 cursor controlled by analog stick. I would imagine there are 3 big differences that make it better:

1. Pressure sensitivity - the trackpoint is adjustable and is pressure sensitive; it goes faster depending on how hard you push it.
2. No actual moving needed - technically you do move, but unlike the analog stick, the movement is on the order of fractions of a millimetre to use it properly. It sounds like this is a bad thing for precision, but you'll find that it is actually a big plus once you get used to it. Trying to imagine using a PS3 analogue stick in my head feels horrible... but in personal experience, this is not the case with Trackpoints.
3. Positioning - switching between keyboard and trackpoint is seamless. There is no context switching between using a keyboard and mouse. Sometimes I've typed with one hand while playing with the trackpoint in the other.

The biggest drawback to trackpoints (and really the only one I can think of) is that you need to get used to it. The other being that you don't have gestures. Gestures aren't as big a deal since your hands are on the keyboard anyways, so you'd use keyboard shortcuts for whatever you want.

By far the hugest advantage to trackpoints is the ability to fully utilize the keyboard AND mouse at the same time without having to move your hands. Like now, even as I type this post, I feel like trying to scroll my post up and down to check it even though I don't have a Trackpoint.

No comment. Personal preference for myself is, again, not smooth scrolling since that just blurs too much for my own comfort on LCDs. Trackpoint scrolling is very similar to a scroll wheel, except you don't actually need a mouse and you don't have to move your hands off the keyboard. Really, you don't realise how good it is to be able to do that until you can't anymore.

EDIT: But again, you need to get used to it. I forced myself to use it for a week before I became addicted to the thing.

A lot of it is personal preference. For me, having the nice, big, glass trackpad on my Air is a godsend, I never could get used to trackpoint, and since it is all gesture based with only 1 button, it is significantly easier to use than a standard trackpad (once you get used to it). Tapping with two fingers for right click instead of having to alter my thumb position is handy, and it isn't exactly in the next timezone from the keyboard.

Plus in OS X, Apple actually has almost perfectly implemented palm rejection ( Five 9 effective I would say)

 

[kevinsbane]

A lot of it is personal preference. For me, having the nice, big, glass trackpad on my Air is a godsend, I never could get used to trackpoint, and since it is all gesture based with only 1 button, it is significantly easier to use than a standard trackpad (once you get used to it). Tapping with two fingers for right click instead of having to alter my thumb position is handy, and it isn't exactly in the next timezone from the keyboard.

Plus in OS X, Apple actually has almost perfectly implemented palm rejection ( Five 9 effective I would say)

The issue is just keyboard + mouse integration. You must move your hand off home row in order to use a touchpad; you never do that with a trackpoint. Thus, when you're using the keyboard at the same time as a mouse, the combination of trackpoint + keyboard is very much superior to either keyboard + real mouse or keyboard + touchpad (including apple touchpads).

It's not that it's hard to use, say, a MBA touchpad; far from it. Apple touchpads are the best touchpads in the business. But it's still a touchpad. A Trackpoint just works better than touchpads when you're also using the keyboard.

I never could get used to trackpoint

Fair enough. Trackpoints are definitely harder to use well than a touchpad (esp Apple touchpad).

 

[chubbyfatazn]

Fair enough. Trackpoints are definitely harder to use well than a touchpad (esp Apple touchpad).

But once you get it, I bet your accuracy increases as well.

I have an X220 as well, but before that I used an X61 tablet. Best laptop ever (not counting the keyboard). Packed an SXGA+ IPS screen into a 12.1" frame... too bad you can't upgrade laptops.

 

[WackyDan]

Nope, nothing compares to to a Macbook Air.

Wrong.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/05/lenovo-reveals-new-carbon-fiber-ultrabook/

 

[madoka]

Nope, nothing compares to to a Macbook Air.

+1

I currently own two Macbook 17s, a 15, two MBA 13s and a MBA 11. I also own a greater number of laptops from Dell, Panasonic, Asus, Acer, etc. I say this to show that I don't have any particular dog in the fight and have ownership experience with several different models. None of the PCs even come close to the total package that the MacBooks have.

For example, I recently bought a Samsung Series 9 13". It's priced the same as a MBA 13 and it is Samsung's top of the line. The specs were good and I figured it should be somewhat MBA like. However, I learned that the little things make all the difference in the world. The MBA is well-thought out. The Samsung is merely a collection of parts in comparison. Whereas the MBA's trackpad is excellent, I OFTEN have to click 2-3 times for the Samsung to register. The battery life can't get anywhere near the 8 hours I can get on the MBA. The body of the Samsung flexes and feels cheap in comparison to the aluminum in the Apple. All these differences remind me why I should avoid buying PC laptops.

 

[span01]

Asus Zenbook Prime UX32?

This has got me very curious as well. The first round of Zenbooks failed on the keyboard, screen and touchpad as I remember it. But looking at the latest review/preview here at Anandtech on the UX21A which also mentions the UX32VD has got me hoping that there will be a solid alternative to the MBA and hopefully even to the MBP.

Apple might present the new Mac's in about a week and next week the NDA will lift on the Ivy Bridge cpu's I think so hang in there for another week or two and I'm sure you will have a proper answer to if there is something that can compete with the MBA and MBP.

 

[yhelothar]

I just got a HP Envy 15 two days ago. The two finger scrolling is being very finicky with me. I have hold my fingers in position for a second before I slide or it won't register half the time. It's very frustrating. Although the chiralscroll function has been awesome. It's so nice to not need to take my finger off the trackpad, and going back and forth constantly.

I still vastly prefer the trackpoint to the trackpad. It's just so much nicer when you don't have to move your finger at all. And it's definitely a huge bonus if your hands get sweaty sometimes.

 

[chubbyfatazn]

Apple might present the new Mac's in about a week and next week the NDA will lift on the Ivy Bridge cpu's I think so hang in there for another week or two and I'm sure you will have a proper answer to if there is something that can compete with the MBA and MBP.

There are plenty of reviews out right now on the X230, so if I had to guess the NDA has already been lifted...

Shame they couldn't bump up the resolution on them.

 

[Nvidiaguy07]

i know many here prefer it, but to me the thinkpad just looks so 90's to me. They'd be dumb to get rid of it, since it seems they have a loyal customer base, but for me they need a big design overhaul.

This actually looks pretty nice

Id like to see a sleeker design on their regular laptops as well.

I think my final conclusion is that there may be a few that compete with and beat macs in many ways, but in the end the trackpad is the deal breaker for me. Until PC has something to compete (trackball isnt my thing) ill be sticking with mac laptops.

 

[chubbyfatazn]

Id like to see a sleeker design on their regular laptops as well.

Sleek? What's not sleek about a minimalist design, no flashy colors or designs (HP and Dell...), and an all-around clean look? Were you looking for a lot of aluminum and a giant shiny, glowing logo on the lid? You Apple conformist.

I think my final conclusion is that there may be a few that compete with and beat macs in many ways, but in the end the trackpad is the deal breaker for me. Until PC has something to compete (trackball isnt my thing) ill be sticking with mac laptops.

In that case, if the trackpad is that important to you, then I can understand your argument. I feel the same way about keyboards and trackpoints, which is why it'll be Thinkpads all the way for me.