Are the stop signs in parking lots enforceable?

[jagec]

Originally posted by: manowar821
I dunno, but not stopping for them is crossing a thin line, IMO. I'd put that kind of attitude into the "blows through yield sign, stops at merging point" category. Stop being a dick.

If you have clear visibility in all directions (this is a parking lot, after all), and no traffic is coming, how is this a dick move?

I'd put this in the same category as blowing through a yield sign when there is no traffic...perfectly OK, since it endangers no one.

Originally posted by: manowar821
I... Never said a complete 100% stop... You're still thinking in black and white. I actually do slow WAY the hell down for those painted crosswalk sections, even if it's 11pm.

What exactly are you arguing, anyway? You're being confusing, honestly. Are you saying you roll through stop-signs on the street as well as the crosswalks, or just the crosswalks?

Are you saying that for every single stop sign on the street, you come to a stop, your car rocks back, and you spell "S-T-O-P" under your breath before proceeding?

Because if not, you too "roll through stop signs".

As for stop lights, there is some legal precedent for "running" a red light if it isn't changing and is "clearly defective". I ride a motorcycle with an aluminum frame, which means that those stupid sensors don't work for me. It's fine when there's other traffic, but if it's the middle of the night I can wait through several light cycles and not get a green. If I'm lucky I'm going straight, and I can dash across and press the pedestrian crosswalk button, but if I'm waiting for a green arrow I have to run it.

 

[Xavier434]

When it comes to stuff like this, use your best judgment. Don't limit the rules you decide to follow to the ones where there are bad consequences if they are broken. All rules are in place for a reason. Some reasons are good. Others are not.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: PingSpike
I have almost never seen some one blow through a stop sign. Most people just slow down to like 5 miles per house and if there are no cars coming they just keep going. Other people come to a four way stop with no cars waiting on any other approach and come to a complete stop and look both ways and then go. Why? If another car was coming, he would be there later then you and would have to stop for you. You stopping changed the outcome in no way other then wasting time.
"

Except when you have the asshole flying down the street that doesn't realize what right of way is.

How would stopping protect you from that though? If he's going to blow through without stopping or adhering to the right of way then even the guy who stopped and then went would get clipped.

If I see someone coming up fast I stop and wait. It's pretty simple.

I'd rather be inconvenienced for 30 seconds than have to deal with the hassle of getting my car fixed.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: PingSpike
I have almost never seen some one blow through a stop sign. Most people just slow down to like 5 miles per house and if there are no cars coming they just keep going. Other people come to a four way stop with no cars waiting on any other approach and come to a complete stop and look both ways and then go. Why? If another car was coming, he would be there later then you and would have to stop for you. You stopping changed the outcome in no way other then wasting time.
"

Except when you have the asshole flying down the street that doesn't realize what right of way is.

How would stopping protect you from that though? If he's going to blow through without stopping or adhering to the right of way then even the guy who stopped and then went would get clipped.

If I see someone coming up fast I stop and wait. It's pretty simple.

I'd rather be inconvenienced for 30 seconds than have to deal with the hassle of getting my car fixed.

You make it sound like I don't look and use caution when rolling through! That is anything but the case I assure you.

But, to ride the point further...do you stop at green lights if you notice some one approaching somewhat fast on the crossing road?

 

[TheFamilyMan]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

They just might be there for your own good, and everyone else who uses the car park

Whatever!

But if you fail to adhere to one, and hit another vehicle or a pedestrian, you will wish you had stopped.

You get a promotion from Captain to Admiral Obvious!

Why not just stop for them?

Same reason you don't always go right at the speed limit.

--

Anyway, thanks for the answers, it seems like maybe I could get a ticket and maybe not, so I'll continue doing what I do now which is to slow down for them but do a quick glance to see if cops are around and roll through if I don't see any (which is what most people do, just as most people don't stop at a 4 way stop if nobody else is there but merely come to a crawl).

Basically what you're saying is you will continue to disregard rules as well as anyone else in the immediate area. You feel that whatever danger you pose to others is irrelevant so long as you are able to continue on as you see fit? You're the type of dick that skirts little as well as big rules and attempts to justify your broken logic with childish rebuttal. You're the classic "innocent because I don't think it should be this way" type and will never see responsibility in your own actions by the simple fact you will, at every turn, attempt to justify your actions.

I hope you grow up and use that head of yours for something other than a racetrack for a comb before you end up killing someone but I doubt that will happen.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: PingSpike
I have almost never seen some one blow through a stop sign. Most people just slow down to like 5 miles per house and if there are no cars coming they just keep going. Other people come to a four way stop with no cars waiting on any other approach and come to a complete stop and look both ways and then go. Why? If another car was coming, he would be there later then you and would have to stop for you. You stopping changed the outcome in no way other then wasting time.
"

Except when you have the asshole flying down the street that doesn't realize what right of way is.

How would stopping protect you from that though? If he's going to blow through without stopping or adhering to the right of way then even the guy who stopped and then went would get clipped.

If I see someone coming up fast I stop and wait. It's pretty simple.

I'd rather be inconvenienced for 30 seconds than have to deal with the hassle of getting my car fixed.

You make it sound like I don't look and use caution when rolling through! That is anything but the case I assure you.

But, to ride the point further...do you stop at green lights if you notice some one approaching somewhat fast on the crossing road?

At a green light you don't have nearly the amount of time to react to the situation. With cars in the left hand turn lanes obscuring your view all around, by the time you see someone coming up fast, you're already in the intersection. It really doesn't apply.

Now going green after coming from a stop, I will check to make sure before proceeding. People are notorious around here for trying to beat red lights and outright running them.

I will slow down and lean on my horn if some jackass decides to make a right turn into the lane I'm in and impedes traffic.

 

[StageLeft]

Basically what you're saying is you will continue to disregard rules as well as anyone else in the immediate area. You feel that whatever danger you pose to others is irrelevant so long as you are able to continue on as you see fit? You're the type of dick that skirts little as well as big rules and attempts to justify your broken logic with childish rebuttal. You're the classic "innocent because I don't think it should be this way" type and will never see responsibility in your own actions by the simple fact you will, at every turn, attempt to justify your actions.

You are absolutely hilarious, your perception of me is based on crazy notions and wildly, grossly hyperbolic 😀

Listen to yourself, you sound like somebody overdosing on caffeine. I said that I don't always stop to a dead stop for stop signs and you're off on insane, crazy, tangents about how I disregard rules, don't care about others, skirt big as well as little rules. You are bats**t freaking crazy!

You have painted the picture of a hedonist who is on a quick path to destruction, oblivious to those around him or doesn't care and will stop at nothing to satisfy his immediate wants, repercussions for others be damned. And you did it all because I said I don't come to a complete stop every time I see a stop sign. Spectacular!

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: TheFamilyMan

Basically what you're saying is you will continue to disregard rules as well as anyone else in the immediate area. You feel that whatever danger you pose to others is irrelevant so long as you are able to continue on as you see fit? You're the type of dick that skirts little as well as big rules and attempts to justify your broken logic with childish rebuttal. You're the classic "innocent because I don't think it should be this way" type and will never see responsibility in your own actions by the simple fact you will, at every turn, attempt to justify your actions.

I hope you grow up and use that head of yours for something other than a racetrack for a comb before you end up killing someone but I doubt that will happen.

I hear he likes to punch babies and trip little old ladies too.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Basically what you're saying is you will continue to disregard rules as well as anyone else in the immediate area. You feel that whatever danger you pose to others is irrelevant so long as you are able to continue on as you see fit? You're the type of dick that skirts little as well as big rules and attempts to justify your broken logic with childish rebuttal. You're the classic "innocent because I don't think it should be this way" type and will never see responsibility in your own actions by the simple fact you will, at every turn, attempt to justify your actions.

You are absolutely hilarious, your perception of me is based on crazy notions and wildly, grossly hyperbolic 😀

Listen to yourself, you sound like somebody overdosing on caffeine. I said that I don't always stop to a dead stop for stop signs and you're off on insane, crazy, tangents about how I disregard rules, don't care about others, skirt big as well as little rules. You are bats**t freaking crazy!

You have painted the picture of a hedonist who is on a quick path to destruction, oblivious to those around him or doesn't care and will stop at nothing to satisfy his immediate wants, repercussions for others be damned. And you did it all because I said I don't come to a complete stop every time I see a stop sign. Spectacular!

Didn't you read the signs? Don't feed the troll! :laugh:

 

[xeemzor]

The MUTCD part 2B.05 clearly states that "STOP signs should be used if engineering judgment indicates that...". Since most, or all, states accept federal funding for road maintenance and construction, they must follow these federal guidelines. Thus, without a traffic engineering survey done on the stop sign, it is unenforceable in court.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: xeemzor
The MUTCD part 2B.05 clearly states that "STOP signs should be used if engineering judgment indicates that...". Since most, or all, states accept federal funding for road maintenance and construction, they must follow these federal guidelines. Thus, without a traffic engineering survey done on the stop sign, it is unenforceable in court.

Interesting. I bet it's not been done in parking lots.

Where I used to have had 20 mph speed limits. People used to always speed and get lots of tickets. Then they raised them to 30. This is why I know that some traffic signs are off-the-cuff recommendations, too, not anything the result of a stringent examination.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: manowar821
I dunno, but not stopping for them is crossing a thin line, IMO. I'd put that kind of attitude into the "blows through yield sign, stops at merging point" category. Stop being a dick.

If you have clear visibility in all directions (this is a parking lot, after all), and no traffic is coming, how is this a dick move?

I'd put this in the same category as blowing through a yield sign when there is no traffic...perfectly OK, since it endangers no one.

Originally posted by: manowar821
I... Never said a complete 100% stop... You're still thinking in black and white. I actually do slow WAY the hell down for those painted crosswalk sections, even if it's 11pm.

What exactly are you arguing, anyway? You're being confusing, honestly. Are you saying you roll through stop-signs on the street as well as the crosswalks, or just the crosswalks?

Are you saying that for every single stop sign on the street, you come to a stop, your car rocks back, and you spell "S-T-O-P" under your breath before proceeding?

Because if not, you too "roll through stop signs".

As for stop lights, there is some legal precedent for "running" a red light if it isn't changing and is "clearly defective". I ride a motorcycle with an aluminum frame, which means that those stupid sensors don't work for me. It's fine when there's other traffic, but if it's the middle of the night I can wait through several light cycles and not get a green. If I'm lucky I'm going straight, and I can dash across and press the pedestrian crosswalk button, but if I'm waiting for a green arrow I have to run it.

I think you're kind of twisting my words.

Blowing through a yield sign when you're supposed to YIELD is a dick move. The sign is there to tell you that you may not cause someone to slow down due to your merging. If no-one is going to be impeded by it, go for it, blow through the sign.

And yes, I do roll though stop signs, TECHNICALLY. I roll through them when it's not prime driving hours, and only at about 3-5 MPH. When there are a number of cars around, I stop completely.

Your problem with having to stop at lights, then go at night is not a huge issue with me. I couldn't care less.

That's all, I think. 🙂

 

[StageLeft]

And yes, I do roll though stop signs, TECHNICALLY.

That's my point, we all do. Except for uptight prissy half-men. Nobody here has advocated the total ignoring of stop signs as if they do not exist 🙂

The entire point of the thread was that I wanted to know if a bored cop could give me a ticket for TECHNICALLY rolling through a stop sign on private property, which I do when I judge it as safe to do it and, which, come to think of it, every single person in the parking lot I'm thinking of does, every single one of them roll through these stop signs if thereare no people or cars clearly coming along.

 

[xeemzor]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: xeemzor
The MUTCD part 2B.05 clearly states that "STOP signs should be used if engineering judgment indicates that...". Since most, or all, states accept federal funding for road maintenance and construction, they must follow these federal guidelines. Thus, without a traffic engineering survey done on the stop sign, it is unenforceable in court.

Interesting. I bet it's not been done in parking lots.

Where I used to have had 20 mph speed limits. People used to always speed and get lots of tickets. Then they raised them to 30. This is why I know that some traffic signs are off-the-cuff recommendations, too, not anything the result of a stringent examination.

It's not done on many traffic control devices at all due to the enormous cost involved in getting an engineering survey for each device. For example, in my town, they have not performed the required survey on any of the residential roads or traffic control devices. Since you also need a survey in order to set a speed limit or erect a speed limit sign, almost all of the speed limits and signs on residential roads are technically invalid. That's not to say cops can't/won't pull you over, just that you have a defense when you go to court.

Obligatory IANAL, just someone who spends way too much time looking over traffic laws.

 

[seemingly random]

I hope you grow up and use that head of yours for something other than a racetrack for a comb before you end up killing someone but I doubt that will happen.

Skoorb please never, never grow up - it would be stiflingly boring.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

And yes, I do roll though stop signs, TECHNICALLY.

That's my point, we all do. Except for uptight prissy half-men. Nobody here has advocated the total ignoring of stop signs as if they do not exist 🙂

The entire point of the thread was that I wanted to know if a bored cop could give me a ticket for TECHNICALLY rolling through a stop sign on private property, which I do when I judge it as safe to do it and, which, come to think of it, every single person in the parking lot I'm thinking of does, every single one of them roll through these stop signs if thereare no people or cars clearly coming along.

A cop CAN do it because at any given time you are probably violating at least one or two laws. The real problem with this is that it is up to YOU to prove that you did NOT do it (proving a negative).

 

[alkemyst]

It sucks when people keep ignoring traffic devices in parking lots because then they keep on building further devices.

Instead of now having a painted stop line, we have a stop sign, a speed bump and rumble strips. When people keep running the speed bumps full speed they make them almost curb like.

Next we will have gates...usually the people that think they are driving fine speeding through the parking lots are the ones that have other's thinking they are idiots for almost running them down.

If one is talking a deserted lot it's one thing to play in it, but whenever you have even 1 car blocking your view that could be a kid coming out of nowhere.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

I hope you grow up and use that head of yours for something other than a racetrack for a comb before you end up killing someone but I doubt that will happen.

Skoorb please never, never grow up - it would be stiflingly boring.

It hasn't happened yet, it's increasingly unlikely that it will ever happen, which is the way I like it!

It sucks when people keep ignoring traffic devices in parking lots because then they keep on building further devices.

This is true!

Next we will have gates...usually the people that think they are driving fine speeding through the parking lots are the ones that have other's thinking they are idiots for almost running them down.

This is also true.

 

[seemingly random]

Was the OP ever answered? I can say from experience that a cop can't write a ticket for an accident in a parking lot - at least it used to be this way and probably varies state to state. I think the key here is public property which is up for interpretation. My guess to the OP would be no. Test it and post back...

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: seemingly random
Was the OP ever answered? I can say from experience that a cop can't write a ticket for an accident in a parking lot - at least it used to be this way and probably varies state to state. I think the key here is public property which is up for interpretation. My guess to the OP would be no. Test it and post back...

It seems in some cases they cannot but in others the private property can have an agreement or some such to have it enforceable.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: seemingly random
Was the OP ever answered? I can say from experience that a cop can't write a ticket for an accident in a parking lot - at least it used to be this way and probably varies state to state. I think the key here is public property which is up for interpretation. My guess to the OP would be no. Test it and post back...

Varies, but mostly on private property law enforcement has to be contracted and then they will enforce rules.

There are some exceptions like parking lots that open to major throughways usually are police regulated.

Long story short is your local traffic laws should have this listed.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I'd be willing to bet that if you just drove through one without slowing at all and a cop saw you do it he'd probably pull you over for it...if for nothing else than to delay you and possibly find something else to cite you for.

 

[GoingUp]

I've been in the car with you, you maniac! Jerkin the wheel around while I was tryin to sleep in the back of the van.

We did do some sweet doughnuts in the Charger though 🙂

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I'd be willing to bet that if you just drove through one without slowing at all and a cop saw you do it he'd probably pull you over for it...if for nothing else than to delay you and possibly find something else to cite you for.

I had figured that may be the case, too, or he'd give you a ticket not knowing he couldn't and then you'd have to go to court and what a hassle.

We did do some sweet doughnuts in the Charger though

Remember when I peeled out to pass that stopped school bus and damn near ripped its blinking red stop sign off?!

 

[seemingly random]

Come on now - family man is going to be back shaking his finger at you...