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Are the Repubs putting party above country?

R

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
I have been thinking about this long and hard lately, as I am sure a good number of you have also. I am concerned that the Republican leaders, not all but the committee leaders especially, are putting their party's political life and well being above what is right and just for the country as a whole.

Here are a few select quotes/opinions from prominent Republicans that I think are very indicative of this being the case:

Frist also said he didn't think a court order is needed before eavesdropping, under the program, occurs. "Does it have to be thrown over to the courts? I don't think so. I personally don't think so," he said.
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At the close of the hearing, committee Chairman Pat Roberts (R-Kan.) angered Democrats by suggesting they were more focused on threats to civil liberties by intelligence agencies than threats from terrorist networks.

"I would only point out that you really don't have any civil liberties if you're dead," Roberts said.
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After a two-hour closed-door session, Senate Intelligence Chairman Pat Roberts, a Republican, said the committee adjourned without voting on whether to open an investigation. Instead, he and the White House confirmed that they had an agreement to give lawmakers more information on the nature of the program. The White House also has committed to make changes to the current law, according to Roberts and White House deputy press secretary Dana Perino.

"I believe that such an investigation at this point ... would be detrimental to this highly classified program and efforts to reach some accommodation with the administration," Roberts said.
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When the leaders of the party are "falling in line" like this and not allowing any kind of extensive investigation into the actions of the president, isn't that essentially giving him complete and total control to do whatever he wants?

I hope that the Democrats win big in November simply because partisan politics will take over and there will be investigations. If they don't, I hope that Republican incumbants don't make it past their primaries and lose to Repubs that are willing to put country above party. If that happens, there should still be good come from it. I believe that there are still a lot of good people that want to serve their country on both sides of the aisle. I just hope that we are collectively smart enough to choose them come November.

 
Absolutely. And like you said, it is not all of them, but a fair number surely do. All you have to do is watch some of the interviews they give and it is readily apparent.
 
Yeah, they do. I'm beginning to think that in order to really get ahead politically, (ie, get party support etc) you have to demonstrate loyalty to the party above all else, more or less.

A ****** shame.
 
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I have been thinking about this long and hard lately, as I am sure a good number of you have also. I am concerned that the Republican leaders, not all but the committee leaders especially, are putting their party's political life and well being above what is right and just for the country as a whole.

Here are a few select quotes/opinions from prominent Republicans that I think are very indicative of this being the case:
...
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Uh, what has all this to do with putting party above country?
 
Like the Dems put country above party... :disgust:

It's an all-out power grab in DC. Neither side is willing to conceed a point to the other if it means possibly losing their grip. It's not just a republican thing.
 
This whole "sides" bs is getting out of hand. You actually think the Dems in Washington give a rats ass about you or the country? Power, that's all it's about and everyone is trying to get it.
 
Originally posted by: dimensionOFdissension
The whole 'Dems vs Repubs' & 'left vs right' argument is there to distract us from the reality that both sides are merely seperate heads on the same crooked snake.
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yes..but they both specialize in screwing things up in their own fashion
 
Originally posted by: CSMR
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I have been thinking about this long and hard lately, as I am sure a good number of you have also. I am concerned that the Republican leaders, not all but the committee leaders especially, are putting their party's political life and well being above what is right and just for the country as a whole.

Here are a few select quotes/opinions from prominent Republicans that I think are very indicative of this being the case:
...
Click to expand...

Uh, what has all this to do with putting party above country?
Click to expand...

If I have to tell you, then you are truly in a sad state. The fact is, they are not willing to even give the appearance of finding out if Bush is encroaching upon our constitutional rights. They will not even let an investigation take place into the program. They are more worried about keeping the gravy train of campaign cash from the national party to get re-elected to even bother doing what is right.

As for the Dems, if you notice in my OP, you will see that I have clearly noted that I believe that the Dems will act out in a very partisan manner. At this point in time, that is a good thing in my eyes. I do not think that they are the saviours of our freedoms however. I think that they will be able to delay the inevitable though.

You will also see that what I would prefer, is to have a balance of right and left from a pool of folks that do actually care about the way that the country is headed. I believe that both sides have some very legitimate and quality ideas to govern and that both are so far away from what is good in other instances that it almost is a choosing of the lessor of two evils.

I believe that the way to correct this is to go to public funding for elections. At that point, you get rid of corporations/industries buying access or favors from candidates. You get people with genuine good in their hearts that will have the resources to compete. And you get, at least on the surface until a new crop of today's pols reappear, the appearance of "free elections" once again.
 
The Republican response: They both do it!

The Democrats have empowered the NSA to spy one ordinary Americans?

Really....

Ooook then.

:disgust:
 
This whole setup is a massive knee jerk reaction from 9/11.

People were finding out about the flaws within the system and demanding that fixes be made so that such actions could not happen again and information would be available to those that needed to utilize it.

The 9/11 commission that supposed to be non-partisan identified areas that some of the breakdowns occurred.

It was demanded during the heatings and after the multiple versions of the report was released that much of those problems be corrected and/or abilities strengthened.

With freedom comes responsibility and trust. What we had here was abused 5 years ago and therefore the people no longer had trust in others.

Not much different that putting a teenager on grounding for breaking curfew.

Well people of all stripes are now getting what they asked for.

Too many do not remember Pogo.
 
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I have been thinking about this long and hard lately, as I am sure a good number of you have also.

I am concerned that the Republican leaders, not all but the committee leaders especially, are putting their party's political life and well being above what is right and just for the country as a whole.
Click to expand...

Glad to see you're finally waking up from the coma and brainwashing but shaking my head that you're just figuring this out now after all these years under Republican Regime rule.

Shakes head 😕
 
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

At the close of the hearing, committee Chairman Pat Roberts (R-Kan.) angered Democrats by suggesting they were more focused on threats to civil liberties by intelligence agencies than threats from terrorist networks.

"I would only point out that you really don't have any civil liberties if you're dead," Roberts said.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
To Mr. Roberts I have to say: give me liberty or give me death.

 
both POS parties put their party over the country. dems vote for dem initiatives, Repubs vote for repub based initiatives. its just stupid, people elected these represenatives to represent them in our government not to represent their fricken party.

 
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

When the leaders of the party are "falling in line" like this and not allowing any kind of extensive investigation into the actions of the president, isn't that essentially giving him complete and total control to do whatever he wants?
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The tone of your post seems to indicate that you feel Congress lords over the President, that they supervise and control him.

Congrees is only one of three branches (legislative), the other two of course are Executive (President) and the Juduciary(SCOTUS). I don't remember that any one is above the other.

My point being that I don't think they can always "investigate" Executive matters as easily as they'd like, or you seem to assert. Conflicts between the branches seem to get "messy" since no-one of them is above the other.

I'm not sure that starting a major battle between the various branches (particularly if the motive is political) is a good way to put "country above party". Some may opine it's the exact opposite.

Also IIRC, members of the Senate Intellegence Committee, both Repubs & Dems, were briefed on the program before implementation. Additionally, Congress has a very poor record of maintaining confidentiality on sensitive matters.

So, all things considered I'm not surprised there's littlle support for such an investigation.

Fern
 
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

When the leaders of the party are "falling in line" like this and not allowing any kind of extensive investigation into the actions of the president, isn't that essentially giving him complete and total control to do whatever he wants?
Click to expand...

The tone of your post seems to indicate that you feel Congress lords over the President, that they supervise and control him.

I read his post and got the exact opposite. Are you sure you read it correctly?

Congrees is only one of three branches (legislative), the other two of course are Executive (President) and the Juduciary(SCOTUS). I don't remember that any one is above the other.

Good point.

My point being that I don't think they can always "investigate" Executive matters as easily as they'd like, or you seem to assert. Conflicts between the branches seem to get "messy" since no-one of them is above the other.

I'm not sure that starting a major battle between the various branches (particularly if the motive is political) is a good way to put "country above party". Some may opine it's the exact opposite.

I kindly disagree. It is the responsibility (Namely Checks and Balances) of the three branches to openly and honestly investigate matters if there are issues regarding the constitutionality of policy or regulations. I don't think there is any task more important than the "Checks and Balances" that is installed in our government. As for "starting a major battle" if the motive is political you may have a point, but the general understanding is that the motive isn't political as much as it is constitutional, and if there is no investigation to determine if that is the case, how much constitutional protection are we as citizens granted from an administration that is implementing questionable policy, and a legislative/judicial branch that isn't going to do anything about it?

Also IIRC, members of the Senate Intellegence Committee, both Repubs & Dems, were briefed on the program before implementation. Additionally, Congress has a very poor record of maintaining confidentiality on sensitive matters.

I think this has been previously discussed and if the level of information that was given to the SIC was anything like what our Esteemed Lord Gonzalez said publicly during hearings a month or so ago then I would be hard pressed to consider it actual "Briefings" instead more like "notification." with hardly the intent to disclose anything other that to say, "We are doing this, trust us since we know what is good for you!"

So, all things considered I'm not surprised there's littlle support for such an investigation.

I actually agree with you on this point, but for different reasons I guess.

Fern
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Check my bolded. 🙂

 
Originally posted by: Fern


Also IIRC, members of the Senate Intellegence Committee, both Repubs & Dems, were briefed on the program before implementation. Additionally, Congress has a very poor record of maintaining confidentiality on sensitive matters.

So, all things considered I'm not surprised there's littlle support for such an investigation.

Fern
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If by "briefed" you mean notified of a program with no real information and it was illegal to dicuss it with anyone? Wow that screams of oversight... How's the air smell up in there?

 
Originally posted by: OrByte

It is the responsibility (Namely Checks and Balances) of the three branches to openly and honestly investigate matters if there are issues regarding the constitutionality of policy or regulations. I don't think there is any task more important than the "Checks and Balances" that is installed in our government. As for "starting a major battle" if the motive is political you may have a point, but the general understanding is that the motive isn't political as much as it is constitutional, and if there is no investigation to determine if that is the case, how much constitutional protection are we as citizens granted from an administration that is implementing questionable policy, and a legislative/judicial branch that isn't going to do anything about it?

[/b]
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I agree the checks & balances is very important. But honestly must say I'm not sure of the proper procedure for that in this case. I can forsee "executive privilege" being invoked here, as well as a problems getting the info out due to national security concerns. Further, seems to me the domain of the Judiciary (not Congress) to determine if, in fact, the law were broken. Hypothetically, if this were to proceed I expect it would have to be resolved by SCOTUS.

I just can't get as upset as some about the lack of a Senate investigation because (1) the above lack of clarity for me, combined with the (2) low expectations I have of Congress's ability to maintain discretion with respect to any information pertinent to national security.

Fern
 
Originally posted by: Todd33
Originally posted by: Fern


Also IIRC, members of the Senate Intellegence Committee, both Repubs & Dems, were briefed on the program before implementation. Additionally, Congress has a very poor record of maintaining confidentiality on sensitive matters.

So, all things considered I'm not surprised there's littlle support for such an investigation.

Fern
Click to expand...

If by "briefed" you mean notified of a program with no real information and it was illegal to dicuss it with anyone? Wow that screams of oversight... How's the air smell up in there?
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I don't pretend to know how much information was disseminated in that meeting.

How do you? After all you state that no-one who was in it can discuss it.

As far as the illegality of discussing it, I thought most, if not all, such meetings of the Intellegence Commitee were that way.

I wouldn't say that any such meeting is "oversight" (as you imply), rather I find it an odd position to be one of those informed at the briefing and then make this fuss afterward. Surely the better time was right then. Looks like political flip-flopping of the worst type.

The air up here (in the Great Smoky Mountains) is quite clear and bit crisp this evening.

Fern
 
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