are the real GF9 cards coming out in march or later?

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
I think we are going to have to accept that video cards are heading the multi-gpu way, there isn't any more that can be done to really up the ante in performance like NV and ATI used to do, the max they can do is tweak the architecture and get more efficient cards like G92.

The HD 3870 X2 is not that bad for a dual gpu card, it's cheap, it doesn't have too many of the glaring drawbacks of CF and in fact according to many reviews it behaves like a single card, so yeah, I think that with a little driver maturity and some better implementation dual GPU cards will become the norm and in this matter it looks like ATI will be back on top, considering the huge advance ATI is doing in Crossfire.

Maybe by 2009 Crossfire/SLI implementations will be so good that a dual-gpu card will be indiscernible from a single-gpu card (except of course for performance), that and even power performance-per-watt optimizations and suddenly dual-gpu on one card sounds very attractive.

what you don't realize is that 3750 IS a very mature CrossFire

CrossFire is very mature ... it appears that despite ATi's year late start compared to nvidia - AMD has matured it beyond SLi.

those "glaring drawbacks" are recently resolved with Cat 8.1 - you can even overclock each card in Xfire *separately*
in the ten-plus games i have trieded, my own crossfire 'IS' a single card as far as i can notice ... there are very very few issues ... well, when i find one i will let you know

 

[taltamir]

Piuc... nvidia could have taken the G80 and shrunk it to 65nm and upped the clock speed... instead the 65nm chips all include neutered G80s with reduced capabilities but increased clockspeed resulting in slightly slower cards (but much MUCH cheaper to produce). Had they just shrunk it without neutering and increased clockspeeds it WOULD have been slightly cheaper to produce, but faster. instead of much cheaper and slightly slower.

appop: I do agree that ATI crossfire is more advanced then nvidia's SLI... the problem is... its working using inferior GPUs... so two slower GPUs with a more efficient multi GPU implementation vs 2 faster GPUs with a less efficient implementation...

EDIT: I just caught something...

it doesn't have too many of the glaring drawbacks of CF and in fact according to many reviews it behaves like a single card

This is flat out false. It is merely hiding from the user the fact that it is two cards (on a single piece of plastic, but still two cards).
A 3870x2 will perform WORSE then a single 3870 on a few games due to lack of xfire support.


And will you stop with that "well this is the future you luddite" remarks? Yea yea, a couple of years from now all cards will probably be multi GPU... but we are NOT there yet. and the tech currently available has drawbacks.
Would you buy a 500,000$ all electric car that has a max range of 80 miles because "in the future all cars will be electric"? Its an exaggeration but the principle is the same. We are comparing existing technology here.

 

[apoppin]

the problem is... its working using inferior GPUs

what you don't seem to realize that it is not a problem ... AMD found nvidia's weakness and simply *targeted* it with a very CHEAP [to produce - and buy] solution

they are inviting nvidia to make one that will cost them much more

it's a 'business game' and one the end consumers can take full advantage of ... look at me using a cheap-ass INFERIOR 256-bit 2900Pro with an XT and getting NEAR-XT/XT crossfire results

damn clever and nvidia has to respond

 

[taltamir]

i am pretty sure nvidia has much higher margins the AMD....

how is your 2900pro xfire setup stacking up against a single 8800GT or a 3870 or GTS 512MB? (I am not trying to put it down, i am honestly asking, how does it stack up!) how much did it cost to setup? (I am scared to think about the beastly PSU and cooling needed for something like that...)

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: taltamir
i am pretty sure nvidia has much higher margins the AMD....

how is your 2900pro xfire setup stacking up against a single 8800GT or a 3870 or GTS 512MB? (I am not trying to put it down, i am honestly asking, how does it stack up!) how much did it cost to setup? (I am scared to think about the beastly PSU and cooling needed for something like that...)

i think XT/Pro xfire kills a GT
:Q

seriously ... my 2900xt matched the GTS-640 OC in performance ... Consider what 8800-gts640 SLI wiould do to a GT .. or even an ultra

Cost ... i bought the PS for ~$150 after MiR a year ago ... not expensive and very future proof [already]... and the XT/Pro are not unreasonable in power demands - compared to XT/XT crossfire

i bought my 2900xt in May for $330 from Best Buy - Orange box was included

my 2900p was $150

not bad pricewise

and before you mention "noise" it is no louder than a single XT

 

[Piuc2020]

Originally posted by: taltamir
Piuc... nvidia could have taken the G80 and shrunk it to 65nm and upped the clock speed... instead the 65nm chips all include neutered G80s with reduced capabilities but increased clockspeed resulting in slightly slower cards (but much MUCH cheaper to produce). Had they just shrunk it without neutering and increased clockspeeds it WOULD have been slightly cheaper to produce, but faster. instead of much cheaper and slightly slower.

appop: I do agree that ATI crossfire is more advanced then nvidia's SLI... the problem is... its working using inferior GPUs... so two slower GPUs with a more efficient multi GPU implementation vs 2 faster GPUs with a less efficient implementation...

EDIT: I just caught something...

it doesn't have too many of the glaring drawbacks of CF and in fact according to many reviews it behaves like a single card

This is flat out false. It is merely hiding from the user the fact that it is two cards (on a single piece of plastic, but still two cards).
A 3870x2 will perform WORSE then a single 3870 on a few games due to lack of xfire support.


And will you stop with that "well this is the future you luddite" remarks? Yea yea, a couple of years from now all cards will probably be multi GPU... but we are NOT there yet. and the tech currently available has drawbacks.
Would you buy a 500,000$ all electric car that has a max range of 80 miles because "in the future all cars will be electric"? Its an exaggeration but the principle is the same. We are comparing existing technology here.

I know it's still CF but it's a more transparent CF mainly because the HD 3870 X2 is not THAT power hungry and hot plus it's easier to set-up (just pop it in and install drivers), it's true some games do not take advantage of CF but at the very least the HD 3870 X2 is as fast as single 3870 not worse (well that's what the benchmarks say anyway) while providing significant gains in other games and it's only going to get better with new driver revisions and new game patches, to be honest the only game that needs serious work is Crysis.

AMD is taking a step in the right direction by making multi-gpu cards so that CF feels as transparent as possible and the HD 3870 X2 may not be there QUITE yet but the progress AMD has made and will make makes multi-gpu sound a lot more attractive than it used to be.

 

[taltamir]

I actually agree. It is a good thing it has become transparent. I honestly don't want to mess around with stuff like that.

Actually it CAN be worse then a single 3870. check this anandtech article:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3219&p=2

Gears of war: x2 is 56.3% faster.
Microsoft flight sim X: x2 is 13.5% faster.
Universe at war: x2 is 2.3% slower

This is for a card that costs a little over twice as much as the 3870.

Granted, when it goes it GOES and is the fastest single slot card available. but sometimes it chokes and sputters.

For its price I would SLI two 8800GT.
Or save some money and crossfire two individual 3870 cards

This will all change when xfireX drivers arrive and you can crossfire two X2 for quadfire. Then it will shine.

It is also has many benefits over the GX2 9800 because it is a single PCB rather then two bolted together.

 

[apoppin]

I know it's still CF but it's a more transparent CF mainly because the HD 3870 X2 is not THAT power hungry and hot plus it's easier to set-up (just pop it in and install drivers)

CF is just 'pop it in' and you don't even need to install drivers
-it is a 2nd AMD card ... you already have the drivers installed ...

all you have to do is check a box in CCC - "enable crossfire" ... no reboot needed
... best of all you can oc each core separately - try that with an X2