Are the Neo-Cons fighting the last war?

[techs]

The Neo-cons Plan for a New American Century hinges on the military might of the US being used unilaterally to allow America to dominate the world for the next hundred years.
I say that China and Russia have the best way to secure dominance for the next hundred years.
Military might is no longer the most powerful weapon that nations use to influence each other in the 21st century. As has been proven in Iraq and has been proved in places like Viet Nam, Afghanistan and in fact even as far back as Algeria.
No longer can militarily powerful nations take over other nations and extract monetary gains that make the military action worthwhile. Nationalism, the machine gun, etc have seen to that.
And nuclear armed nations can make any military attack cost in-effective.
No, its ECONOMIC power that will be the primary weapon of influence over the next 100 years.
And China is using theirs masterfully. While keeping a nuclear deterrent just strong enough to prevent the US from attacking them, China is building a coalition world wide of nations that are bound to her by bonds stronger than military ones. Nations around the world are receiving economic incentives from the Chinese while countries like the US are committed to "free trade". Essentially the US is fighting a war, unarmed.
Russia has awakened to this idea too. Look at how it is using its oil as tool of diplomacy.
The neo-cons plan is just so reminiscent of the "Maginot Line"

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Yes, and our record deficits (thank you DUBYA) are hastening our demise.

 

[Witling]

techs, I think you've asked the wrong question. Are we fighting the last war? You know, as your jen-u-wine Vietnam combat vet, I would have thought that that was the last war, largely for reasons you've stated in your post. In addition, in yon olden days farming was the main industry. The rulers collected taxes. It didn't matter a whole lot which ruler was collecting them if the taxes remained reasonable. But a modern complex society cannot be run by force. You've got oil pipelines running over miles and miles of empty country. People blow them up. Modern news coverage keeps the powerful from doing a wholesale slaughter of the conquered population -- for which the Palestinians can thank their lucky stars.

I think the right question is Are wars a feasible way to impose your will? Now after Vietnam I would have thought the answer was a pretty clear NO. But, I reckoned without Schiller's observation that "Against stupidity, the very gods themselves strive in vain." Remember before the war how this was characterized as a walk over with people welcomming us with flowers? Anybody who knew anything about the Middle East knew that wasn't true.

There is at least one big difference between Vietnam and Iraq. Vietnam was at the end of the earth in an error when the world was not as tightly integrated. We could leave without major consequences to us or Western interests. Not so with Iraq. This administration has really goosed the moose. As the creation of Israel has generated 60 years of big problems, Iraq will do so also.

 

[Termagant]

The OP's point is well taken. But I believe the US is not completely oblivious to the importance of military/industrial/economic partnerships.

Look at US relationships with South Korea, Japan, and to a lesser extent Taiwan. Free trade works in those situations, economic special relationships aren't necessary, but the military collaboration is key. China would love to have relationships with countries like that.

 

[Witling]

As an additional point, the imposition of sanctions is being credited for North Korea's recent decision to -re-engage in Six Party talks.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: techs
The Neo-cons Plan for a New American Century hinges on the military might of the US being used unilaterally to allow America to dominate the world for the next hundred years.
I say that China and Russia have the best way to secure dominance for the next hundred years.
Military might is no longer the most powerful weapon that nations use to influence each other in the 21st century. As has been proven in Iraq and has been proved in places like Viet Nam, Afghanistan and in fact even as far back as Algeria.
No longer can militarily powerful nations take over other nations and extract monetary gains that make the military action worthwhile. Nationalism, the machine gun, etc have seen to that.
And nuclear armed nations can make any military attack cost in-effective.
No, its ECONOMIC power that will be the primary weapon of influence over the next 100 years.
And China is using theirs masterfully. While keeping a nuclear deterrent just strong enough to prevent the US from attacking them, China is building a coalition world wide of nations that are bound to her by bonds stronger than military ones. Nations around the world are receiving economic incentives from the Chinese while countries like the US are committed to "free trade". Essentially the US is fighting a war, unarmed.
Russia has awakened to this idea too. Look at how it is using its oil as tool of diplomacy.
The neo-cons plan is just so reminiscent of the "Maginot Line"

You are delusional.
US GDP 11,750,000,000,000
China GDP 7,262,000,000,000
Russia GDP 1,408,000,000,000

So despite having 300 million people vs. China?s 1 billion, we still have a HUGE advantage in terms of GDP which is the economic thing you are talking about.
Compare GDP per capita US 40,000 China 5,600

In 2000 we exported $1,070 billion in goods and imported $1,445 in goods.
In the same year China exported $249 billion goods and imported $225 billion in goods.

How can you even begin to think that China has economic power any where near ours?

BTW: Our trade with just Canada was almost equal to the ENTIRE trade total of China in 2000. Are you and Dave in a race to see who can create the most useless and delusional threads?

 

[f95toli]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

You are delusional.
US GDP 11,750,000,000,000
China GDP 7,262,000,000,000
Russia GDP 1,408,000,000,000

So despite having 300 million people vs. China?s 1 billion, we still have a HUGE advantage in terms of GDP which is the economic thing you are talking about.
Compare GDP per capita US 40,000 China 5,600

In 2000 we exported $1,070 billion in goods and imported $1,445 in goods.
In the same year China exported $249 billion goods and imported $225 billion in goods.

How can you even begin to think that China has economic power any where near ours?

BTW: Our trade with just Canada was almost equal to the ENTIRE trade total of China in 2000. Are you and Dave in a race to see who can create the most useless and delusional threads?

Right now that is true. But given the current rate of growth of those economies it will only be a few decades before China and India will dominate the world economy.
Lets face it, USA and Europe are slowly loosing power (in terms of influence) and there is nothing we can do about it. Morever, I don't think it neccesarily means that e.g our standard of living will be any worse and we will still be important trading partners (but not nearly as important as today). In a sense our position in the world will most likely simply better reflect the number of people living in USA and Europe, at the moment the "importance per capita" is way too high.

 

[cockeyed]

I think "Techs" hit the nail right on the head. Unfortunately, too many people get their information from 30 second sound bites and talk radio/TV shows, so they will not understand the economic implications until it is too late.

Watching the value of the U.S. Dollar relative to the Euro, it seems to me that there is already an economic transition taking place. The business news has been reporting that many countries are now moving to the Euro as their reserve currency. Why this is happening is something to think about!

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: cockeyed
I think "Techs" hit the nail right on the head. Unfortunately, too many people get their information from 30 second sound bites and talk radio/TV shows, so they will not understand the economic implications until it is too late.

Watching the value of the U.S. Dollar relative to the Euro, it seems to me that there is already an economic transition taking place. The business news has been reporting that many countries are now moving to the Euro as their reserve currency. Why this is happening is something to think about!

The value of the dollar is now completely at the mercy of China.
If China decides not to buy our debt the dollar will free fall.
Hence, the growing fear that the dollar is no longer the soundest currency.
This is a perfect example of how economic power has usurped military power.