Are the "K" CPU's binned like the non "K's"

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,109
3,635
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Do you think the 2500 and the 2500k parts are binned the same? Or the 3770's and the 3770k's? Does Intel bin strictly by frequency for desktop parts or do you think it's possible the K's might be just a little better than the non K's at the same frequency rating? I'm just thinking that perhaps since Intel is selling the K's knowing that they will most likely be overclocked perhaps Intel is throwing the enthusiast just a little bone.
 

Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
5,530
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Most non-K CPUs are HD2500 so at the very least they're GPU-binned.
 

skipsneeky2

Diamond Member
May 21, 2011
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I have used both,k and non k chips and honestly think the savings is just there for those who just want a cheaper motherboard and aren't willing to overclock.

Saw no difference performance wise in the build i did earlier this year with the 2500k at stock,nor the 2500 non k i recently gifted to a family member.

Just a matter if someone wants to overclock,or save some coin and honestly i think it works out fine for the consumer this way as well.
 

Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,505
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My guess would be more of binned by demand for the sku than anything else.
 

TakeNoPrisoners

Platinum Member
Jun 3, 2011
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I have used both,k and non k chips and honestly think the savings is just there for those who just want a cheaper motherboard and aren't willing to overclock.

Saw no difference performance wise in the build i did earlier this year with the 2500k at stock,nor the 2500 non k i recently gifted to a family member.

Just a matter if someone wants to overclock,or save some coin and honestly i think it works out fine for the consumer this way as well.

Yea that is exactly what they are for. There is no difference in clock speed and if you are spending that much for a CPU you would have a discrete card anyway.
 

tweakboy

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2010
9,517
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www.hammiestudios.com
K simply means unlocked. But daz bs. Mine doesnt say K , but its not locked,, I can play with the multiplier and OC that way. or with the bus...........

Save the money for a SSD grab a 2500 and OC it to 4.5Ghz with a good cooler and call it a day.
 

Soulkeeper

Diamond Member
Nov 23, 2001
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has there ever been any evidence that intel bins their chips for any other criteria than they'll do the advertised speed ?
 

EJ257

Junior Member
Jul 21, 2009
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I don't see why they would. K parts just mean the multiplier is unlocked. I think any OC you can achieve will largely depend on luck of the draw. All the really good chips are probably binned for Xeons anyway.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
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has there ever been any evidence that intel bins their chips for any other criteria than they'll do the advertised speed ?

Each and every chip will be characterized for functionality and full parametric capability (clockspeed, power, voltage) simply for the sake of the fact that the fab itself needs that data as feedback for its own cycle-time/yield/parametric optimization efforts.

How Intel uses this data in terms of then distributing the chips across various SKUs is not known in the public domain but obviously they must be doing some degree of inventory management to match demand where needed as well as feeding back lot-start numbers to the fab for future inventory projections.

I would be surprised if Intel does anything uniquely different from how the rest of the industry operates in this regard. If they did then we'd have heard about it by now considering how much they like advertise their prowess when it comes to fab tech management (cycle-time, D0 reduction, cost/wafer adders, xtor fom, etc).
 

MentalIlness

Platinum Member
Nov 22, 2009
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I don't see why they would. K parts just mean the multiplier is unlocked. I think any OC you can achieve will largely depend on luck of the draw. All the really good chips are probably binned for Xeons anyway.

Could a Xeon be used in a everyday gaming PC ?
 

ehume

Golden Member
Nov 6, 2009
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I would be surprised if Intel does anything uniquely different from how the rest of the industry operates in this regard. If they did then we'd have heard about it by now considering how much they like advertise their prowess when it comes to fab tech management (cycle-time, D0 reduction, cost/wafer adders, xtor fom, etc).

OK. How does the industry go about binning their cpu's?
 

lamedude

Golden Member
Jan 14, 2011
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If my i5-3330 is any indication the garbage at least goes to the bottom. Its a partially defective/disabled Ivy Bridge-HM-4 that can't handle a 100MHZ iGPU overclock.
 

Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
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If my i5-3330 is any indication the garbage at least goes to the bottom. Its a partially defective/disabled Ivy Bridge-HM-4 that can't handle a 100MHZ iGPU overclock.

The 3330 is a locked chip, what makes you think it could overclock well at all?
 

lamedude

Golden Member
Jan 14, 2011
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iGPU is unlocked on all CPUs and chipsets. Everyone that tries seems to get 1.3-1.4GHZ easily but those were HD4K chips.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
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OK. How does the industry go about binning their cpu's?

The challenge with that question is that to effectively communicate the answer one risks writing a mini-novel in the process ;)

So how to pare down the details without leaving out too many of the important bits?

There are two things that start at the top of the decision path hierarchy when it comes to binning - there is "known capability" and there is "desired supply", and things get tricky because of course these are distributions, not specific solitary numbers, and they are also not static...the distributions are changing in real-time.

"Known Capability" varies from chip to chip, wafer to wafer, lot to lot, fab to fab, day to day, week to week, quarter to quarter.

"Desired Supply" varies from market region to region, supplier to supplier, town to town, sales team to sales team, month to month, quarter to quarter, on the basis of internal sales goals and projections set by higher and higher levels of management on the basis of seeding and developing a demand base that will vary in time and equally so across region, countries, provinces, towns, retailers, etc. Not too mention the need to capture, characterize, and factor in the competitive element which creates the need for various promos and incentive programs.

The known capability data are generated first and foremost for the fab's own internal tracking metrics (cycle time goals, intrinsic reliability and yield, cost/wafer reduction goals, tool uptime goals, etc). But the data is also made available simultaneously to the ex-fab entities, sales and marketing for example, who must manage the feedback loop between market consumption, inventory management, and lot-start management.

The desired supply targets are generated from inputs across a multitude of sales and marketing teams that are spread across the globe in all markets. Their own inputs represents an admixture of "known" and "projected" needs as they are attempting to balance a supply/demand point on the curve that results in steadily progressing towards meeting key internal quarterly metrics (revenue growth goals, margin goals, inventory goals, market share goals, etc).

The desired supply must fit within the shadow cast by the known capability. You can't ship/sell more 3.9GHz 3770k's than you can bin out across all your wafers from all your fabs. If the desired supply of 3770k's from the fabs exceeds the capability of the fabs to create them then you have a shortfall in meeting desired supply for that SKU. No one wants that to occur.

In the ideal situation, from a supply-chain management perspective, your desired supply is never constrained by the known capability of the fab(s). The sales and marketing teams are free to maximize and optimize revenue objectives, margins, inventory, etc without the constraint of limited supply at any given SKU. Then they can basically price the SKUs to what the market can bare whilst making the volume numbers needed to hit an overall revenue and margin target.

At the enthusiast level this is what creates the bubble in which we exist wherein we find ourselves able to purchase lower clocked SKUs that can be overclocked the same as a higher binned SKU because both may have the same inherent known capability (same clockspeed potential, etc).

Not everything ends up being under-binned though, naturally, there will be a fair amount of chips binned at the upper limits of their known capability.

One perception gap that does seem to persist amongst the enthusiast community is that speedbin are set by supply, not by demand. The reality is they are set by neither supply nor demand, but of course supply and demand are factored into the decision process.

The reality is that speedbins are set by a sales and marketing strategy that involves meeting a cascading series of internal financial objectives set down by the executive team. Now these objectives are obviously constrained by the immutable limits of supply. You can't sell what you can't produce, customers are finicky about buying empty boxes.

But no company wants to find themselves living hand-to-mouth having to sell every last chip that bins out on the hairy-edge upper limit of its known capability. (but the ram guys do find themselves there periodically, as does AMD, but even then it is not widescale across all SKUs, it will be limited to the very top-tier SKUs)

There is a reason the top paid folks at any given business are the ones tasked with managing the big picture as it relates to moving product, making goals, meeting targets, etc, and the folks who make the products themselves (even the managers of those folks) and the R&D individuals are not making the big bucks. It is very easy to screw up the delicate balance that is required to keep a large revenue company moving along from year to year, and it is never as simplistic a job as the armchair-CEOs like to make it out to be.

This is already getting longer than I wanted, and no doubt I've left out some important bits that I should not have glossed over, and there is a strong chance I have not given you any better an idea for how (or why) the binning occurs in the sense that you may have been looking for. But what I have described here is basically what happens at every semiconductor company regardless their market or product - be it logic, analog, memory, mems, etc.
 

EJ257

Junior Member
Jul 21, 2009
21
0
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There is an AMA going on over on Reddit from an Intel CPU Architect and Designer. Ask a question or just browse through for some interesting tibits.

Also, I stand corrected on my earlier statement. Apparently they give you better part than normal for the K SKUs. So the pecking order maybe Xeons -> K -> non-K

"For us as architects, we have a team dedicated to putting in overclocking features into the designs and tests in place to cherry pick those parts to box and sell as such. So you are getting parts on the good side of the normal when you buy K CPUs."

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/15iaet/iama_cpu_architect_and_designer_at_intel_ama/
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
Is there a site like passmark's or hwbot that stores and catalogs the VID for each cpu that gets tested and data uploaded? If the binnign were different then you would think the average VID for each model would differ slightly.
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
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Could a Xeon be used in a everyday gaming PC ?

I been using a lynnfield xeon for a while now. I refer to it as my i5-750 but that is not exactly what it is. Well, it is pretty much the same chip, just binned differently lol.
 

Pohemi

Lifer
Oct 2, 2004
10,796
16,677
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I understand that the "K" chips signify unlocked multipliers, but what do the "P" or "S" model suffixes signify? Sorry if this was answered in another thread but I honestly couldn't find an explanation anywhere. The only differences I saw in specifications were clock speeds and TDP...
 

Sleepingforest

Platinum Member
Nov 18, 2012
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What makes a K chip unlocked as opposed to a Xeon? Could I potentially unlocked a Xeon to take advantage of the top bin?