Are the Jews God's Chosen People?

[bizmark]

It depends. If you believe in "God", then you are either Jewish, Christian, or Muslim. If you're Jewish, the belief that Jews are God's Chosen People is the basis of your religion.

For Christians, then there's many different beliefs about this. I know some "fundamentalists" (hell, I'm related to them) who swear up and down that the Jews are still God's Chosen People. This comes from Revelations, in which the 144,000 from the Tribes of Israel are taken to heaven along with the Christians. (Which begs the question: what about the other millions of Jews in the world?)

They seem to forget the parts like Galatians 3:26-29, "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus... There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Also in Romans 9:30, "What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not persue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone."" A little later on, "Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes." (10:4)

This is followed up by "I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! ... they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable." (Rom 11:1-25) So there's a little bit of contradictory evidence for you. However, the author of Hebrews writes "But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs [the Israelites] as the covenant of which he is the mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises. For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. But God found fault with the people and said: "The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the House of Judah... they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. ... For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will son disappear." (Hebrews 8:6-8:13, quoting Jeremiah 31:31-34)

I am not familiar with the Islamic holy texts, but from what I can tell, they don't believe that the Jews are God's Chosen People either.

BTW I am not a Bible Scholar, nor, probably, a Christian. The only reason why I've looked up this stuff is so that I can talk about it with my grandmother and maybe change her views on what's going on in the Middle East, so that she won't be so passionately pro-Israel. If there's other stuff in the Bible that contradicts what I've written, I'm not discounting it or trying to hide it. This is just some of the first stuff I've found that points to why Christians should not knee-jerkingly support Jews/Israel. I'm very interested in learning more, from both sides of the argument. I've presented part of one side, so I'd really like to hear the other.

Before posting I just wanted to look at what others said:



<< For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile >>



So how does this show that the Jews are God's Chosen People? That statement would seem to un-Choose them, right? To choose is to distinguish, if God isn't distinguishing, then God isn't choosing....

 

[Antoneo]

<< If God had wanted to, He could have chosen another race, but in His sovereign grace He chose Israel to be His people. He chose them because He loved them. >>

If one is Jewish, then he cannot be asian? If one is Jewish, isn't he/she just a follower of that religion rather than a"race"? There is only one human race. What do the Jews have that blacks, asians, and other whites do not? Anatomically we are all just about the same (DNA differences are very little close to none but those slight differences in ATGC are what makes everyone of us unique). He chose them because He loved them? What kind of God is this that discriminates against his own creation? I demand equal opportunity. Jews had a covenant with God, really... Has God done anything collectively good for the Jews in the past twentieth century? In my opinion no, and he seems to have been dormant for a long time. This God you are talking about is not full of sovereign "grace" nor is He merciful. I been raised a Catholic but my whole family recently has been turned off towards religion because it is corrupt (trust me go to my church and see why people go, to brag and to socialize not in the name of God but merely to socialize... and this has been in every Church we went to) and God simply is not full of justice and is a bit weak. He works in mysterious ways, yeah right :disgust:.

 

[ThePresence]

***BIG SIGH***

Depends on your beliefs obviously. I'm just curious what the point of this thread was (if not to start a flamefest). You obviously believe that the Jews are the chosen people (as do I). You would have to guess that most non-Jews would disagree with that. And no1 is gonna change any1 else's beliefs. So what's the point?

 

[aphex]

<< ***BIG SIGH***

Depends on your beliefs obviously. I'm just curious what the point of this thread was (if not to start a flamefest). You obviously believe that the Jews are the chosen people (as do I). You would have to guess that most non-Jews would disagree with that. And no1 is gonna change any1 else's beliefs. So what's the point? >>



I agree. Im Jewish as well, but i only see this thread as a chance to start a flamewar...

 

[bizmark]

<< If one is Jewish, isn't he/she just a follower of that religion rather than a"race"? >>



Not according to Orthodox Jews, and most Jews before (at least) this century. According to the old law, one's mother MUST be Jewish for one to be Jewish. Recently, some sects have allowed conversion, but this is still controversial. The Israeli Law of Return defines anyone who was born of a Jewish mother as a Jew, and allows him/her to immigrate to Israel -- no-one else, not even people who might have been born there, are allowed to immigrate.

I think of Judiasm as much more like an ethnicity than a race. Sure, it's a religion too, but a religion which you can really only practice if you belong to a particular ethnic group.

edit:evidently I'm wrong on the conversion thing. I *did* look up the Law of Return thing before posting though! My apologies.

 

[Capn]

I think they were, as in they aren't any more. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

 

[BettyBoop]

May I inject a little humor into this thread?

I belong to a small congregation of Messianic Jews (persons of Jewish heritage who have accepted Jesus Christ as the Messiah.) A member of our congregation returned from Canada not long ago, and he brought with him a snapshot of a Messianic place of worship in the Yukon.

In front of the Quonset-hut building was a hand-painted sign that said GOD'S FROZEN PEOPLE.

 

[ThePresence]

<<

<< If one is Jewish, isn't he/she just a follower of that religion rather than a"race"? >>



Not according to Orthodox Jews, and most Jews before (at least) this century. According to the old law, one's mother MUST be Jewish for one to be Jewish. Recently, some sects have allowed conversion, but this is still controversial. The Israeli Law of Return defines anyone who was born of a Jewish mother as a Jew, and allows him/her to immigrate to Israel -- no-one else, not even people who might have been born there, are allowed to immigrate.

I think of Judiasm as much more like an ethnicity than a race. Sure, it's a religion too, but a religion which you can really only practice if you belong to a particular ethnic group. >>



Conversion has always been allowed by all Jews, even Orthodox. Discouraged, but allowed if the circumstances permitted. The Old Testament mentions converts a number of different places.

 

[Martin]

*****CONFIRMED*****

Yes they are!





Seriously:

 

[bizmark]

<< Yes they are! >>



Er... Jzero posted that earlier. It's very funny though.

Also edited my post above which contained false statements. I stand corrected.

 

[ThePresence]

<<

<< Yes they are! >>



Er... Jzero posted that earlier. It's very funny though.

Also edited my post above which contained false statements. I stand corrected. >>



I'm at a total loss for words. In my short time here on ATOT, I've begun to believe, that when someone contradicts you, one is not supposed to correct himself. One is instead supposed to call the other person interesting names, such as d!ckhead, @sswipe and other assorted kinds of creative and mildly disgusting things. I'm really impressed.

 

[Josephus]

Not only the Jews..... if you read every instance of chosen people, ISA 65:9 calls descendants of Jacob and Judah "chosen people", both Peter (1PE 2:9) and Paul (COL 3:2) speaks of early followers of Christ as "chosen people"

 

[bizmark]

<< I'm at a total loss for words. In my short time here on ATOT, I've begun to believe, that when someone contradicts you, one is not supposed to correct himself. One is instead supposed to call the other person interesting names, such as d!ckhead, @sswipe and other assorted kinds of creative and mildly disgusting things. I'm really impressed. >>



Well, if you really want..... you're a monkey-fvcking Jay-Leno-watching never-met-a-dog-he-wouldn't-fvck gerbil-stuffing cell-phone-in-the-theater-talking oversized-SUV-driving can't-overclock-nor-afford-a-Celeron-300A Ricer-fanboy eco-terrorist Mac-user Al-Qaeda-apologist always-bugging-tech-support-with-stupid-questions hiding-in-your-little-paper-bag wannabe lame-@ss lovely human-@ss d|ckweed!



heh that was fun.

Seriously, though... thanks.

Sorry to drag this OT thread so seriously OT.

 

[ThePresence]

<<

<< I'm at a total loss for words. In my short time here on ATOT, I've begun to believe, that when someone contradicts you, one is not supposed to correct himself. One is instead supposed to call the other person interesting names, such as d!ckhead, @sswipe and other assorted kinds of creative and mildly disgusting things. I'm really impressed. >>



Well, if you really want..... you're a monkey-fvcking Jay-Leno-watching never-met-a-dog-he-wouldn't-fvck gerbil-stuffing cell-phone-in-the-theater-talking oversized-SUV-driving can't-overclock-nor-afford-a-Celeron-300A Ricer-fanboy eco-terrorist Mac-user Al-Qaeda-apologist always-bugging-tech-support-with-stupid-questions hiding-in-your-little-paper-bag wannabe lame-@ss lovely human-@ss d|ckweed!



heh that was fun.

Seriously, though... thanks.

Sorry to drag this OT thread so seriously OT. >>



WOW. Glad to see you have a creative mind! That was impressive....

 

[Smaulz]

Reader's Digest Condensed Version:

It stems from the Old Testement. Way, way, way back around the time of Abraham, the Jews were the only people (as a general rule) that actually made an effort to follow God. Therefore, they became His chosen people. However, when we get into the New Testement and the New Covenant, the whole "chosen people" thing ceases to matter because God's love and salvation through Jesus Christ is now available to everyone. Well, everyone that choses to accept it.

The End.

 

[Polgara]

What about this?

Let's say the Bible is right (and I'm mostly going from childhood kindergarden here), then God's chosen people (Jews) can be taced back to Noah(?) and the Ark. If they were the only one's on the boat (and I suppose they were Jewish), then we all came from them, and we ALL are God's chosen people.

Sarah <== Jewish Princess

 

[Texmaster]

Its times like this I miss Elledan

From what I understand, The Jewish people are God's chosen people but not in the broad definition but the people God chose to spread the word of God. Many people have taken the broader definition innacurately.

God doesn't take favorites

 

[Aceman]

<< God chose the Jews for three reasons: (1) To be His witnesses to the World (Isa. 43:10; 44:8), (2) To preserve the Scriptures (Rom. 3:1-2), and (3) to bring forth the Son of God (Rom. 9:5). >>



So, since the Jews do not believe that Jesus was truly the Son of God, and if Jesus is truly the Son of God, then I guess that would make the Jews God's choosen people for what or more importantly where?

So basically, we have some neat senarios here:

A) If Jesus is truly the Son of God, there's gonna be a lot of Jews chosen by God NOT to enter his Kingdom

B) If Jesus is not the Son of God, then the Jews are truly the chosen people and there's gonna be some mighty unhappy Christians that God won't be allowing into his kingdom

C) If Allah or some other diety is truly the one and only God then your gonna see a bunch of Jews and Christians not entering his kingdom

D) If there is no God, then ain't nobody gonna be doing nothing except rotting in the ground after death.

And in all senarios except "D", there's gonna be a lot of unhappy people/spirits!!!!!

 

[BMdoobieW]

<< What about this?

Let's say the Bible is right (and I'm mostly going from childhood kindergarden here), then God's chosen people (Jews) can be taced back to Noah(?) and the Ark. If they were the only one's on the boat (and I suppose they were Jewish), then we all came from them, and we ALL are God's chosen people.

Sarah <== Jewish Princess >>



No. Noah wasn't Jewish. He just recognized that there was one G-d in this world. Abraham was the first Jew. And all the nations of the world came from Noah's three sons. (well they had to onnakowna they were the only people on Earth.)

 

[BMdoobieW]

<< So basically, we have some neat senarios here:

B) If Jesus is not the Son of God, then the Jews are truly the chosen people and there's gonna be some mighty unhappy Christians that God won't be allowing into his kingdom

And in all senarios except "D", there's gonna be a lot of unhappy people/spirits!!!!! >>



No. If non-Jews follow the "Seven Laws of Noah" then they will have "done good" here on Earth and should have no problem getting into Heaven. Keep in mind that Jews have at least 613 laws that they have to follow in order to "do good."

 

[Polgara]

No. Noah wasn't Jewish. He just recognized that there was one G-d in this world. Abraham was the first Jew. And all the nations of the world came from Noah's three sons. (well they had to onnakowna they were the only people on Earth.)

1. Why then was God hangin' with Adam and Noah? If they weren't Jewish then God chose people who weren't Jewish.

2. We sang "Father Abraham" ...had many sons.....I am one of them, and so are you..... in Sunday School, so I'm still right.


Sarah <== Daughter of Abraham, and so are you


EDIT: Is it significant that you spelled God with a "-" instead of an "o"?

 

[dababus]

there is no such thing as chosen people, every one is equal. God doesn't differentiate between His creations.

 

[BMdoobieW]

<< 1. Why then was God hangin' with Adam and Noah? >>



Why wouldn't he be? He created the world...can't he be involved in it without making a whole religion?



<< 2. We sang "Father Abraham" ...had many sons.....I am one of them, and so are you..... in Sunday School, so I'm still right. >>



Aren't you Jewish? Sunday School? Whatever, the point is Abraham came after Adam and Noah and Abraham was the first Jew, followed by his son Isaac and then Isaac's son Jacob.



<< Sarah <== Daughter of Abraham, and so are you >>



I'm a son of Abraham.

EDIT: Yes, I don't spell out G-d's name because Jews aren't suppose to erase G-d's name and by writing it you are creating the potential for it to be erased. So to be on the safe side we just don't write it. Of course there are some that say that since "G-d" is an English word, it isn't really "G-d's name" so this whole issue doesn't exist. But that's a whole 'nother topic.

 

[Polgara]

Ok, getting serious here a bit.....

I don't think God would hang with Adam and Noah as much as he did if he wasn't making a religion. With the very first rule (don't eat the apple) he made a religion. With the first punishment (get outta' here and get pregnant and grow crops) he acted on the promise of the first rule.

He drowned everyone for being bad, and made a promise to everyone that he would not drown everyone again.

When you have promises and punishments that effect everyone through the ages you have religion. I believe there was sacrifices too. Didn't the first murder happen because God was ticked off at the offering? Didn't Noah sacrfice an animal or two?

Since this is in the Bible, doesn't that make it part of a religion?


If this isn't the Jewish religion, then what is it?

Sarah <== not Jewish, but thinks she is chosen

 

[MillionaireNextDoor]

Gentiles are also God's chosen people (Jews = Jews, Gentiles = Everyone else). According to the scriptures, in Acts 11:17-18,

011:017 "Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? "
011:018 "When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. "

-Q