Are the Chinese patriotic?

HeXploiT

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2004
4,359
1
76
I have a question that I wanted to present to those that have been to China or are better educated on the subject. Over the past couple of years my political philosophies have changed drastically from almost a neo-conservative position to that of traditional republican or what many would actually recognize as very libertarian. One of the things I have come to understand is just how much patriotism is used as a form of brainwashing and how effective it really is.
What I'm wondering is this; What does patriotism look like in China?
Are there Chinese rednecks driving around in Zhongxing convertibles waving the red flag? How do patriotic Chinese view America and the rest of the world and what percentage of the populous buys into Chinese patriotism?
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,914
3
0
It is even worse in China, and in East Asian countries in general. Foreigners are below them, an example was in the PBS documentary last night about illicit industries in the world. A Chinese firm made some cough syrup that killed a bunch of people in Peru, nobody cared because it was just hurting foreigners. I'd call it more racism than nationalism.. the actual political differences aren't what matters, but the pride in their ethnicity.

I'm not describing all Chinese, but rather the counterpart to rednecks in convertibles waving flags.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Vast majority of Chinese think about how to put food on the table instead of how much they love their country.

But they do have pride in their heritage and culture, and when faced with adversity, like when Japan invaded, they will fight to the death for their country. I guess it's like what you see in most Asians. They are not outspoken, but if when push come to shove they will show how intelligent/persevere they are.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
I believe every country has them, from the US to North Korea to Iraq. It's clear and precedented across the world's history that people will fight for what is not worth fighting for and love what does not deserve it.
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,905
2
76
I think a huge number of them have been brainwashed. While I was there, their news never shows anything bad about their own country or their leaders. Yet when it comes to news about the outside world, they pick out the really bad ones.

Also any insult to China is considered an insult to the whole Chinese people.

They are also taught their whole lives to hate the foreign devils. History about how China was abused by the colonial powers is ingrained in them. If you question the history, you'll be re-educated, undergoing "patriotic education." Some Chinese are still incensed by Japanese aggression in WW2 that they will not buy Japanese products. Of course that happens in Korea too.


 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,101
5,640
126
Originally posted by: maddogchen
I think a huge number of them have been brainwashed. While I was there, their news never shows anything bad about their own country or their leaders. Yet when it comes to news about the outside world, they pick out the really bad ones.

Also any insult to China is considered an insult to the whole Chinese people.

They are also taught their whole lives to hate the foreign devils. History about how China was abused by the colonial powers is ingrained in them. If you question the history, you'll be re-educated, undergoing "patriotic education." Some Chinese are still incensed by Japanese aggression in WW2 that they will not buy Japanese products. Of course that happens in Korea too.

Much of that sounds eerily familiar. Most Patriotism follows those basic principles as far as I can see. Certainly we in the West have much better access to Domestic Faults information, but many still downplay those to the point they take any criticism as a criticism of the whole.
 

HeXploiT

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2004
4,359
1
76
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: maddogchen
I think a huge number of them have been brainwashed. While I was there, their news never shows anything bad about their own country or their leaders. Yet when it comes to news about the outside world, they pick out the really bad ones.

Also any insult to China is considered an insult to the whole Chinese people.

They are also taught their whole lives to hate the foreign devils. History about how China was abused by the colonial powers is ingrained in them. If you question the history, you'll be re-educated, undergoing "patriotic education." Some Chinese are still incensed by Japanese aggression in WW2 that they will not buy Japanese products. Of course that happens in Korea too.

Much of that sounds eerily familiar. Most Patriotism follows those basic principles as far as I can see. Certainly we in the West have much better access to Domestic Faults information, but many still downplay those to the point they take any criticism as a criticism of the whole.

Cannon fodder. We justify negative consequences, usually in the form of human lives lost, as merely an unfortunate side effect however we still see our motives as good or pure.
 

LongCoolMother

Diamond Member
Sep 4, 2001
5,675
0
0
I've been to China and I didn't notice anything particularly different about patriotism there vs here in the US. There certainly seems to be quite a bit more 'arrogance' on the part of Americans with regard to their nationality compared to most other countries (including China), but I wouldn't necessarily equate that to patriotism.

There are probably very few (if any) Chinese nationals on these boards. I don't know how accurate the information you get on here will be.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
One thing that might be worth noting is that since the Communists pretty much gave up on anything...communist, what they have pushed hard IS nationalism and doing everything "in the name of the country". Whether that bleeds down to the people TODAY is probably up for discussion and realistically varies geographically in the country.
Ironically enough, I think this whole Tibet issue probably helps to make them more nationalistic - They see China's opportunity to finally be like a first world nation and host the Olympics, and Tibetan protesters are trying to "mess that up" :p That has got to have pushed many people who probably didn't care or know about that issue towards a radicalized position.

Of course with this entire discussion - lets not forget that this stuff works the exact same way in "the west" and to be critical about them while understating ourselves (Although for sure I do believe that the concept of "sacrifice for the greater good" is nowhere near as strong here) is sheer hippocracy.

Originally posted by: maddogchen
I think a huge number of them have been brainwashed. While I was there, their news never shows anything bad about their own country or their leaders. Yet when it comes to news about the outside world, they pick out the really bad ones.


Also any insult to China is considered an insult to the whole Chinese people.

They are also taught their whole lives to hate the foreign devils. History about how China was abused by the colonial powers is ingrained in them. If you question the history, you'll be re-educated, undergoing "patriotic education." Some Chinese are still incensed by Japanese aggression in WW2 that they will not buy Japanese products. Of course that happens in Korea too.

Lol that bolded area does describe news here as well

As for "hate the foreign devils" - seems ironic to have this deep hatred when they rush to be exactly like them. Isn't that relatively new housing district in shanghai entirely modeled off of different European styles?
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,905
2
76
Originally posted by: magomago
One thing that might be worth noting is that since the Communists pretty much gave up on anything...communist, what they have pushed hard IS nationalism and doing everything "in the name of the country". Whether that bleeds down to the people TODAY is probably up for discussion and realistically varies geographically in the country.
Ironically enough, I think this whole Tibet issue probably helps to make them more nationalistic - They see China's opportunity to finally be like a first world nation and host the Olympics, and Tibetan protesters are trying to "mess that up" :p That has got to have pushed many people who probably didn't care or know about that issue towards a radicalized position.

Of course with this entire discussion - lets not forget that this stuff works the exact same way in "the west" and to be critical about them while understating ourselves (Although for sure I do believe that the concept of "sacrifice for the greater good" is nowhere near as strong here) is sheer hippocracy.

Originally posted by: maddogchen
I think a huge number of them have been brainwashed. While I was there, their news never shows anything bad about their own country or their leaders. Yet when it comes to news about the outside world, they pick out the really bad ones.


Also any insult to China is considered an insult to the whole Chinese people.

They are also taught their whole lives to hate the foreign devils. History about how China was abused by the colonial powers is ingrained in them. If you question the history, you'll be re-educated, undergoing "patriotic education." Some Chinese are still incensed by Japanese aggression in WW2 that they will not buy Japanese products. Of course that happens in Korea too.

Lol that bolded area does describe news here as well

As for "hate the foreign devils" - seems ironic to have this deep hatred when they rush to be exactly like them. Isn't that relatively new housing district in shanghai entirely modeled off of different European styles?

foreign devils or "gweilo" in cantonese is a term for European people. It literally translates to something like ghost man.

So you take the new development in Shanghai which is used to attract foreign investment companies to do business in China as an example of them rushing to copy european lifestyles?

I'm talking about people in a lot of Chinese provinces learning in school over and over again about abuses suffered at the hands of foreigners. And how it was a national shame. They are programming it into them and when something bad happens to China, the government will blame the outside world and trigger a nationalistic response from them.

Also foreign news channels that only a small percentage of the Chinese population gets is censured. If you watch CNN or BBC there, when you see the tv channel go black, thats a news blackout of negative news about China. Also of course their internet search engines have restrictions on them.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Chinese culture is very different from American Culture. For hundreds of years Chinese have had a mistrust of the Western World and prefer their asian culture. They tend not to accept foreigners that much. America is the exact opposite. Americans are English, dutch, german, cuban, korean, Chinese, norwegian, Italian, African American, Mexican, spanish, Japanese, etc.

I watched a movie once about china and the people in this village in China considered everyone not from that village a foreigner. China is not so much about being yourself but being Chinese. In America there is a lot more outward pride and self centered living. Of course this could just be perception on my part.

Maybe I have watched too many movies like Shogun, "The Good Earth", and "The Inn of the Sixth Happiness" too many times.
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,010
1
0
Originally posted by: maddogchen
I think a huge number of them have been brainwashed. While I was there, their news never shows anything bad about their own country or their leaders. Yet when it comes to news about the outside world, they pick out the really bad ones.

Also any insult to China is considered an insult to the whole Chinese people.

They are also taught their whole lives to hate the foreign devils. History about how China was abused by the colonial powers is ingrained in them. If you question the history, you'll be re-educated, undergoing "patriotic education." Some Chinese are still incensed by Japanese aggression in WW2 that they will not buy Japanese products. Of course that happens in Korea too.

That doesn't sound a whole lot different to some of the American on this board, particularly some of the hard-right neocons. And the paragraph about news in China could easily be mistaken for American news.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,101
5,640
126
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
In my experiences, they rival even the rabid Canadian nationalism/patriotism.

No mention of the Queen? You're slipping....
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
if not, they get sent to build the Olympic stadiums!
oh the irony if that one is true :laugh:

+
 

orangat

Golden Member
Jun 7, 2004
1,579
0
0
Originally posted by: piasabird
Chinese culture is very different from American Culture. For hundreds of years Chinese have had a mistrust of the Western World and prefer their asian culture. They tend not to accept foreigners that much. America is the exact opposite. Americans are English, dutch, german, cuban, korean, Chinese, norwegian, Italian, African American, Mexican, spanish, Japanese, etc.

I watched a movie once about china and the people in this village in China considered everyone not from that village a foreigner. China is not so much about being yourself but being Chinese. In America there is a lot more outward pride and self centered living. Of course this could just be perception on my part.
..........

Chinese had reason to be distrustful when they see western powers making a living by piracy and drugs. China is probably one of the few countries which didn't get colonized although it did knuckle down by importing opium under the aegis of free trade after the opium war and granting extraterritoriality to western powers. Then the west backed the wrong side in the Kuomintang.

American's are really not the exact opposite, they restricted immigration to the good looking ones and just 50yrs ago blacks couldn't sit in the front seats in buses or share water fountains. Many Asian countries had equal rights for all races immediately after independence after WW2.

Pigeon holing Chinese culture or any other culture has its pitfalls.
 

AllWhacked

Senior member
Nov 1, 2006
236
0
0
I think that most Chinese are patriotic, just as Americans are. However, the average mainland Chinese I've met is way more patriotic than say your average American or European or even Japanese.

Here are some examples:

1) As others have said the mainland Chinese are taught from grade school about the wrongs committed against China (eg. Opium War, French-Sino War, Sino-Japanese War, Russian land grabs, WWII, etc). Given the fact that at one point, China was carved up like a melon by the Imperialist countries I don't blame the Chinese for distrusting the West. But because of this legacy, the average Chinese feel that when their government is attacked (such as on its human rights record), they take the attack personally as they see if as another attempt for foreign powers to meddle into what they feel are Chinese internal matters.

2) The leaders of China's communist party are revered like gods. In fact, Mao can almost do no wrong. I had a friend who taught college age kids English in China. He mentioned that every conversation ultimately ended up about Mao. One conversation about cigarettes digressed into whether China would have been better off had Mao not smoked and thus lived longer versus the fact that the cigarettes relaxed him and made his decision making that much clearer. To the Chinese, Mao is George Washington, Abe Lincoln and Jesus all wrapped into one.

3) The Chinese government actively encourages Chinese media to focus their attacks against foreigners. For example, when I was in China the media reported about how a construction company found a stockpile of mustard gas left behind by the Japanese. When the crew accidentally ruptured one of the barrels, the crew got burned by the gas. If the story ended there, that would be fine as the Japanese did attack China and did leave behind their chemical weapons, and did perform atrocities, etc. However, the story continues about how the construction company then sells the barrels to a recycling company and did not tell them it was mustard gas. The daughter of the recycling company gets disfigured by the gas and when the mother is interviewed, all the mother says is how she blames the damn Japanese. Never mind the fact that your own countrymen were so unscrupulous as to sell you toxic waste and not tell you about it. Now that would be even bad enough, but the story goes further and mentions how the company also sold the sand around the barrels that was used to build a children's playground and of course the kids got burned too. The moral of the story by the reporter was damn the Japanese. Never mind that our own people are so self fish that they stab their fellow countryman in the back.

4) When I was in college taking a Chinese poli-sci course the professor poised a questions whether it was in the United States interest to allow countries such as China to develop nuclear weapons and other advanced weapons. As a Chinese American, I have pride in my mother country but as the question stated, I felt that in the interest of the United States the less countries that had nukes the better it was for the US. We discussed this in groups and one group was made up of a bunch of mainland Chinese exchange students. The first thing out of his mouth was how arrogant it was that the US felt that countries such as China should not develop nukes. And then went on a tirade about how racist the US is in trying to deny others such capabilities. I remarked that this is not a matter of race, but a matter of national interests. I posed a question that if the situation was reverse, that China was the sole super power and had a monopoly on these weapons, wouldn't china try to prevent others from developing it. He wouldn't answer the question and thus I rested my case.

5) My friend who taught in China mentioned that he once asked the question of his class that if they only had 1 day to live, what would they do. He got the usual responses of visiting friends and family, indulging, etc. But there was this one girl, who was always super quiet and looked very unassuming, she said that she would buy a plane ticket to Japan and assassinate the Japanese prime minister. Again, this visceral hatred of Japan amongst the Chinese. While I do believe Japan deserves to be hated and part of that hate is Japanese government lack of apology for its wrongdoing (unlike Germany's), I find it amazing how deeply ingrained this hatred can be.

Anyway, while these stories are obviously not totally reflective of the Chinese people, I do feel they show a glimpse of some of what we're dealing with.
 

chewietobbacca

Senior member
Jun 10, 2007
291
0
0
Its not just mainland China, Chinese people overseas and those in places like Taiwan, Macau, and Hong Kong share many of the same ideas. In fact, I put it down to culture more. Keep in mind that Chinese culture has existed for 4+ millenia and their culture is one of honoring the family name and one's ancestors, which of course ties in with honoring the Chinese culture. Its amazing how people can live in other countries and become citizens there and yet still be very closely tied to the mainland, even if their most recent ancestors born there were 2-3 generations ago.

 

dighn

Lifer
Aug 12, 2001
22,820
4
81
The Chinese are very patriotic. I lived in China until about the 5th grade and still keep in touch with some family members and current events there. Education is definitely a part of it. There is a heavy emphasis on patriotism. Stories about martyrs, patriotic role-models, daily flag raising and anthem singing ceremonies etc were integrated into the school system.

History about how foreign powers violated China was taught frequently though I think that is well justified. China became complacent, weak and suffered for it. That's a lesson that should be remembered. I don't think people still retain a hatred for most foreign powers, except maybe Japan. That's often irrational but understandable. Read about things like the Rape of Nanking and more importantly what the Japanese say about it today. Also keep in mind that it's not just the Chinese who hate the Japanese. Koreans and many others feel very strongly about it as well.

Despite all this, politics is only a part of it. Like one of the posters above said, a strong historical and cultural identity is at the core of it, which is why even immigrants remain patriotic.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: maddogchen
Originally posted by: magomago
One thing that might be worth noting is that since the Communists pretty much gave up on anything...communist, what they have pushed hard IS nationalism and doing everything "in the name of the country". Whether that bleeds down to the people TODAY is probably up for discussion and realistically varies geographically in the country.
Ironically enough, I think this whole Tibet issue probably helps to make them more nationalistic - They see China's opportunity to finally be like a first world nation and host the Olympics, and Tibetan protesters are trying to "mess that up" :p That has got to have pushed many people who probably didn't care or know about that issue towards a radicalized position.

Of course with this entire discussion - lets not forget that this stuff works the exact same way in "the west" and to be critical about them while understating ourselves (Although for sure I do believe that the concept of "sacrifice for the greater good" is nowhere near as strong here) is sheer hippocracy.

Originally posted by: maddogchen
I think a huge number of them have been brainwashed. While I was there, their news never shows anything bad about their own country or their leaders. Yet when it comes to news about the outside world, they pick out the really bad ones.


Also any insult to China is considered an insult to the whole Chinese people.

They are also taught their whole lives to hate the foreign devils. History about how China was abused by the colonial powers is ingrained in them. If you question the history, you'll be re-educated, undergoing "patriotic education." Some Chinese are still incensed by Japanese aggression in WW2 that they will not buy Japanese products. Of course that happens in Korea too.

Lol that bolded area does describe news here as well

As for "hate the foreign devils" - seems ironic to have this deep hatred when they rush to be exactly like them. Isn't that relatively new housing district in shanghai entirely modeled off of different European styles?

foreign devils or "gweilo" in cantonese is a term for European people. It literally translates to something like ghost man.

So you take the new development in Shanghai which is used to attract foreign investment companies to do business in China as an example of them rushing to copy european lifestyles?

I'm talking about people in a lot of Chinese provinces learning in school over and over again about abuses suffered at the hands of foreigners. And how it was a national shame. They are programming it into them and when something bad happens to China, the government will blame the outside world and trigger a nationalistic response from them.

Also foreign news channels that only a small percentage of the Chinese population gets is censured. If you watch CNN or BBC there, when you see the tv channel go black, thats a news blackout of negative news about China. Also of course their internet search engines have restrictions on them.
Everyone has different racist terms for the other people. Think of "beloved patriot" in English ~ and I still here that term used around.

As for Chinese rushing to copy western lifestyles I do think very much so that is what has been going on for a while. The idea of how to much and to what extent to adapt or copy was a question that existed for the Chinese even 100 years ago.

As for learning of the past and what the foreign powers did- NO DUH. China was getting pwned from the 1840s all the way up until the end of WW2. The main aggressors were European nations, and then later America and Japan as they all cut up their own pieces. That said, its a problem to lay the fault of a prior generation on the next one, but given their circumstances and the fact that people do it like that its more understandable.

As for their restrictions on freedom - I'm with you there. Cutting out "bad" information will no doubt alter people's perceptions.
But again I tell you this - conveniently ignoring information is something we do as well in the US. IT doesn't have to be pro or anti US either. One that illustrates the point is how we paint suicide bombers in the Middle East as being a product of their religion and do not consider their environment, yet for the VT shooter we conveniently ignored his repeated religious references to Christianity and instead spent hours analyzing how his actions was a product of his surroundings.

The only real way to break down any feelings of superiority is to have people interact and mingle - only then will stereotypes and biases break down that are associated with intense patriotism and all forms of nationalism.