Are teachers generally against objective standards?

[Riprorin]

I was talking to a teacher yesterday and mentioned to her that since I hadn't gotten the results back from a NYS state that my daughter took in the fall, I called the school to find out her results. She seemed flabergasted that I would call the school and was actually interested in knowing the results. My point to her was that in the absence of an objective, standardized test how do I assess what my daughter really knows and if the school is inflating her grades. Her point was that it was only a single data point and the results were essentially meaningless.

The take away from the discussion for me was that she was afraid of any test that might reflect on her teaching abilities.

Do I have it wrong?

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I was talking to a teacher yesterday and mentioned to her that since I hadn't gotten the results back from a NYS state that my daughter took in the fall, I called the school to find out her results. She seemed flabergasted that I would call the school and was actually interested in knowing the results. My point to her was that in the absence of an objective, standardized test how do I assess what she really knows and if the school is inflating her grades. Her point was that it was only a single data point and the results were essentially meaningless.

The take away from the discussion for me was that she was afraid of any test that might reflect on her teaching abilities.

Do I have it wrong?

Many teachers generally dislike standardized testing because they end up teaching AROUND the test instead of teaching your children something useful *god forbid!*. The result is that the teacher's 'ability' is judged by the students' ability to pass the test, a very poor marker or teaching ability. Personally, I think standardized testing in any form is the biggest joke and foe this country's education system has ever faced and continued to face. It stifles creativity and spontaneity, instead creating an 'educational' environment of automatons who merely sit in class as the same facts are shoved down their throats. We are creating living, thinking human beings, not robots.

Education should be fun and encourage the student to do thinking on his own - not the other way around.

 

[Savij]

One problem with standardized tests is it makes the teachers that teach for the tests look better than teachers other, possibly better, teachers that might teach more but look worse because they don't drill on just the standardized scores.

 

[Atomicus]

Maybe she hasn't gotten tenure yet, how long as she been teaching in that school?

 

[vi edit]

Many teachers generally dislike standardized testing because they end up teaching AROUND the test instead of teaching your children something useful *god forbid!*. The result is that the teacher's 'ability' is judged by the students' ability to pass the test, a very poor marker or teaching ability. Personally, I think standardized testing in any form is the biggest joke and foe this country's education system has ever faced and continued to face. It stifles creativity and spontaneity, instead creating an 'educational' environment of automatons who merely sit in class as the same facts are shoved down their throats. We are creating living, thinking human beings, not robots.

Education should be fun and encourage the student to do thinking on his own - not the other way around

That summed it up better than I ever could.

But I do think the teacher the OP talked to did a terrible job of conveying that message.

 

[Ornery]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Many teachers generally dislike standardized testing because they end up teaching AROUND the test instead of teaching your children something useful *god forbid!*. The result is that the teacher's 'ability' is judged by the students' ability to pass the test, a very poor marker or teaching ability. Personally, I think standardized testing in any form is the biggest joke and foe this country's education system has ever faced and continued to face. It stifles creativity and spontaneity, instead creating an 'educational' environment of automatons who merely sit in class as the same facts are shoved down their throats. We are creating living, thinking human beings, not robots.

Education should be fun and encourage the student to do thinking on his own - not the other way around

That summed it up better than I ever could.

But I do think the teacher the OP talked to did a terrible job of conveying that message.

What a fvcking crock!

How are college and university admissions decisions made? How do you acquire your license to practice law? How do you become a CPA, or even a licensed electrician for that matter? :roll:

 

[Riprorin]

What bugged me was her reaction when I told her that I called the school to find out the results, ie. "you called the school!".

As if there is something wrong about wanting to know how your child did on a test.

She happens to be a city school teacher and she was trying to convince me that the city school kids do well on standardized tests.

I'm familiar with the results and they are abysmal.

I guess some people like being delusional.

 

[her209]

Aren't standardized tests biased anyways?

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: her209
Aren't standardized tests biased anyways?

Only when your child does not do well. So I guess Blacks know a different math than the rest of us? English is different for them also, correct?

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: her209
Aren't standardized tests biased anyways?

Only when your child does not do well. So I guess Blacks know a different math than the rest of us? English is different for them also, correct?

Yes, what if English is your second language?

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: her209
Aren't standardized tests biased anyways?

Only when your child does not do well. So I guess Blacks know a different math than the rest of us? English is different for them also, correct?

Yes, what if English is your second language?

Ummm, we are in the United States of America...we speak and teach Enlish. Go to France and complain when you can't pass a stadardized test because it has too much French on it and you don't know it that well.....geesh.

 

[tec699]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: her209
Aren't standardized tests biased anyways?

Only when your child does not do well. So I guess Blacks know a different math than the rest of us? English is different for them also, correct?

For Mexican students, then yes the tests are biased. We now live in a multicultural society so the test need to conform to the minority population. If you don't like it then leave America because society is progressing and you will get left behind if you don't change.

 

[Riprorin]

I have a lawyer friend (who happens to be black) who pulled his kid out of public schools because a teacher minimized the importance of standardized tests.

His reaction was "I don't care if you don't think standardized tests are important or not, Harvard, Yale, and Princeton do!".

 

[tec699]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: her209
Aren't standardized tests biased anyways?

Only when your child does not do well. So I guess Blacks know a different math than the rest of us? English is different for them also, correct?

Yes, what if English is your second language?

Ummm, we are in the United States of America...we speak and teach Enlish. Go to France and complain when you can't pass a stadardized test because it has too much French on it and you don't know it that well.....geesh.

Learn to speak Spanish. Don't be ignorant. As I stated earlier we now live in a multicultural society. Get used to it or move to Russia.

 

[vi edit]

What a fvcking crock!

How are college and university admissions decisions made? How do you acquire your license to practice law? How do you become a CPA, or even a licensed electrician for that matter?

Colleges do look at SAT/ACT scores - but they also look at application essays, grades, sports & activities the student was in in high school, and teacher recommendations.

Once you get past undergrad, and into graduate or specialty programs, testing becomes even less important. Sure you have MCAT's, PCAT, GRE, ect but those are more to weed people out. To be accepeted you have to interview and your interview and what you've done besides testing is more important than the testing itself.

The problem with "objective" testing is that you can cram for that specific test and know how to answer those questions. That was one of the big problems with the tech industry 5 years ago - people would hit braindumps or cramsessions for MCSE exams, know the answers to the questions, but not have a flippling clue of what it actually meant.

Same with a lot of these "objective" exams given in lower grades. It's all memorization. Very little actual application.

 

[Isshinryu]

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: her209
Aren't standardized tests biased anyways?

Only when your child does not do well. So I guess Blacks know a different math than the rest of us? English is different for them also, correct?

For Mexican students, then yes the tests are biased. We now live in a multicultural society so the test need to conform to the minority population. If you don't like it then leave America because society is progressing and you will get left behind if you don't change.

Why can't the minority conform to the majority?

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Isshinryu

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: her209
Aren't standardized tests biased anyways?

Only when your child does not do well. So I guess Blacks know a different math than the rest of us? English is different for them also, correct?

For Mexican students, then yes the tests are biased. We now live in a multicultural society so the test need to conform to the minority population. If you don't like it then leave America because society is progressing and you will get left behind if you don't change.

Why can't the minority conform to the majority?

Because the minorities as a whole is larger than the majority?

 

[tec699]

Originally posted by: Isshinryu

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: her209
Aren't standardized tests biased anyways?

Only when your child does not do well. So I guess Blacks know a different math than the rest of us? English is different for them also, correct?

For Mexican students, then yes the tests are biased. We now live in a multicultural society so the test need to conform to the minority population. If you don't like it then leave America because society is progressing and you will get left behind if you don't change.

Why can't the minority conform to the majority?

IMO because then your practicing racism. Minorities have it hard enough and making them conform is just another barrier to living a decent life. I've always believed that we should learn a multitude of languages so we don't become a society that breeds ignorance.

Learn to respect other cultures.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: her209
Aren't standardized tests biased anyways?

Only when your child does not do well. So I guess Blacks know a different math than the rest of us? English is different for them also, correct?

For Mexican students, then yes the tests are biased. We now live in a multicultural society so the test need to conform to the minority population. If you don't like it then leave America because society is progressing and you will get left behind if you don't change.

How can society be progressing when standards have to be lowered to meet the needs of the minorities? This country is slowly sliding into the toilet. The "racial" fearmongers have everyone scared of lawsuits and instead of pushing the minorities to rise up and perform to the levels of others they simply demand that everything be reevaluated so that minorites "look" better.....but they don't advance and that is a shame. Diversity will bring this country to it's knees, luckily I am old enough that it is not going to affect me.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

What a fvcking crock!

How are college and university admissions decisions made? How do you acquire your license to practice law? How do you become a CPA, or even a licensed electrician for that matter?

Colleges do look at SAT/ACT scores - but they also look at application essays, grades, sports & activities the student was in in high school, and teacher recommendations.

Once you get past undergrad, and into graduate or specialty programs, testing becomes even less important. Sure you have MCAT's, PCAT, GRE, ect but those are more to weed people out. To be accepeted you have to interview and your interview and what you've done besides testing is more important than the testing itself.

The problem with "objective" testing is that you can cram for that specific test and know how to answer those questions. That was one of the big problems with the tech industry 5 years ago - people would hit braindumps or cramsessions for MCSE exams, know the answers to the questions, but not have a flippling clue of what it actually meant.

Same with a lot of these "objective" exams given in lower grades. It's all memorization. Very little actual application.

New York State gives standardized tests in 4th and 8th grades for language arts, science, and math. The tests are graded on a scale of 1 to 4, 4 being the highest.

My daughter who gets A's and B+'s took the test. She happened to get 3's on LA and science (haven't got the math results back yet), but if she got 1's ot 2's, wouldn't that raise some alarms about the quality of her education and raise some suspicion about grade inflation? In the absence of such tests, how do you accurately gauge how kids are doing?

 

[Isshinryu]

Originally posted by: tec699
IMO because then your practicing racism. Minorities have it hard enough and making them conform is just another barrier to living a decent life. I've always believed that we should learn a multitude of languages so we don't become a society that breeds ignorance.

Learn to respect other cultures.

Learning a multitude of languages is good, I agree. However, our official language is English, as is the UKs, and for someone to immigrate her, they should respect that enough to learn a new language. Many illegal immigrants around here are living a decent life without speaking a lick of English. If they new how to speak our official language, and were legal, I can only imagine how well they would do.

Throwing out the word racism is pointless. There is no racism in that concept, nor is there a lack of respect for other cultures.

 

[tec699]

Ron...

Please man. Diversity will only make us a better country. Isn't this country the so-called melting pot of the world? There is no other country like ours and shouldn't we embrace the minorities that are coming to America in record numbers. Take a look at the stats. It's projected that in 20 years the Spanish population is going to increase at such a rate that they will rival white America. With a large population comes power. We are going to see more Spanish senators, mayors, educators, CEO's, doctors, lawyers, etc... They will have the voting power to make major changes in America. Hell we may even see a Spanish president within 20 years!

So if the Spanish are coming to America in record numbers shouldn't they have their own language and shouldn't their culture be respected to the extent that white America has to learn their language to communicate? In fact, change is happening right now! My father delivers the voting machines to the surrounding districts and did you know that we now have both Spanish and English names on those machines? It's taking place and I feel we need to accommodate them.

 

[vi edit]

New York State gives standardized tests in 4th and 8th grades for language arts, science, and math. The tests are graded on a scale of 1 to 4, 4 being the highest.

My daughter who gets A's and B+'s took the test. She happened to get 3's on LA and science (haven't got the math results back yet), but if she got 1's ot 2's, wouldn't that raise some alarms about the quality of her education and raise some suspicion about grade inflation? In the absence of such tests, how do you accurately gauge how kids are doing?

Obviously there is a need for assessement. I just find too many testing methods that are pushed onto kids uncompromising. They don't work well with creative minds or out of the box thinkers. They force teachers to make kids fit the mold that some non-educating based body deems important.

I dated a girl for 3 years who's mother was a teacher, and I also dated another girl for two years who was an education major. I'm also probably going to be going back to school for an education degree in a few years, so I am a bit emotional on the topic.

 

[Isshinryu]

Originally posted by: tec699
Ron...

Please man. Diversity will only make us a better country. Isn't this country the so-called melting pot of the world? There is no other country like ours and shouldn't we embrace the minorities that are coming to America in record numbers. Take a look at the stats. It's projected that in 20 years the Spanish population is going to increase at such a rate that they will rival white America. With a large population comes power. We are going to see more Spanish senators, mayors, educators, CEO's, doctors, lawyers, etc... They will have the voting power to make major changes in America. Hell we may even see a Spanish president within 20 years!

So if the Spanish are coming to America in record numbers shouldn't they have their own language and shouldn't their culture be respected to the extent that white America has to learn their language to communicate? In fact, change is happening right now! My father delivers the voting machines to the surrounding districts and did you know that we now have both Spanish and English names on those machines? It's taking place and I feel we need to accommodate them.

If you want caucasian inhabitants to be forced to learn Spanish, why shouldn't immigrants be forced to learn English?

 

[Ronstang]

tec,

If Mexicans can't make their own country great then what makes you think they are going to make this country "greater".....you are obviousley Hispanic so you are wearing racial blinders. Most of the Mexicans entering this country are not the rocket scientist type, they are the day worker type. If every minority person in/and entering this country strived and worked to raise the bar of expectations then diversity would be a good thing.....but lowering expectations so minorities can appear to be performing equal is not only a disservice to them it will eventually bring this country down.