Are squats hard on the knees?

[Riprorin]

My knees crack when I do squats. Wonder if I'm doing any damage.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Knee pads are hard on t he knees, you know that by now though, right?

 

Obviously.

 

[edro]

Not if you keep your back straight, press your heels into the ground (not your toes), and squeeze your butt muscles to lift. Also, do not bend your knees past 90 degrees. (Koing does, because he is 1337)

 

[Ikonomi]

My knees crackle when I bend all the way and unbend, and for a long time my mom scared me into not doing anything with them, because she said I'd damage something.

But then I realized I didn't care. I can only assume that squats produce a lot of sheering force in the knees, so I guess they can be hazardous. But I don't think it's an unsafe exercise.

 

[cyclistca]

How low are you going when you squat?

I never go lower then having my legs 90 degrees with the floor. Some say doing deep squats were you drop all the way down can be bad for your knees. Who knows. I only go to 90 degrees because I'm training for bike racing and there is no need to go any deeper.

 

[Ausm]

Affirmative..that is why i walk with a limp


sysadmin

 

[MikePanic]

theres a reason powerlifters wrap their knees

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: edro13
Not if you keep your back straight, press your heels into the ground (not your toes), and squeeze your butt muscles to lift. Also, do not bend your knees past 90 degrees. (Koing does, because he is 1337)

Ah, when I keep my heels grounded I don't hear any pops.

 

[TheWart]

nice tip on pressing the heels down

 

[edro]

Originally posted by: TheWart
nice tip on pressing the heels down

Many people put a plate (25lb or whatever size you want) under their heels to ensure that they don't use their knees.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: cyclistca
How low are you going when you squat?

I never go lower then having my legs 90 degrees with the floor. Some say doing deep squats were you drop all the way down can be bad for your knees. Who knows. I only go to 90 degrees because I'm training for bike racing and there is no need to go any deeper.

90 degrees with the floor is vertical?

 

[Spamela]

keep your knees at or behind your toes on the descent.
don't fully lock out your knees at the top until the last rep.

think of sitting back (breaking at the hips) rather than bending at the knee.
push knees out on the way down.

going deep is not a problem.

you don't need knee wraps until you're squatting a great deal
of weight (IOW, if you're not a powerlifter, then never).

 

[sash1]

They help your knees. I have tendonites, so I do them every day after I run (7+ mi./day) to help strengthen my knees and prevent pain. They've definitely helped.

`K

 

[beer]

I'd like to refute the claim that going down to parallel is safer than going down below parallel.
Assuming you're doing a squat, and stop at parallel, you need to change the momentum of your motion from downwards to upwards. When you're at parallel, your knees are acting as a pivot point and thus feel the strongest component of that inertial change. If you go below parallel, the inertial change is felt mostly on your ass. Your ass, being muscle and not joints, can inherently handle the force more safely.

Powerlifters use knee wraps because undisputably you are the weakest down below parallel and the wraps serve to put some tension back into the system that 'snaps' you back up. Safety is an issue with wraps too, but a bad wrap job can be worse than no wraps at all, especially because you can store a hell of a lot of potential energy in those wraps and if they're done unevenly or poorly, you'll end up in lots of pain. I would say that a novice with wraps is going to be in more danger than a novice going below parallel with a managable weight. Plus the wraps cut off your circulation below too, that's why they go on right before a set and off right after that set. That's why their a PITA - rolling up your wraps correctly really, really wears out your hands.

I'm sure any powerlifter here can collaborate what I say.

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: beer
I'd like to refute the claim that going down to parallel is safer than going down below parallel.
Assuming you're doing a squat, and stop at parallel, you need to change the momentum of your motion from downwards to upwards. When you're at parallel, your knees are acting as a pivot point and thus feel the strongest component of that inertial change. If you go below parallel, the inertial change is felt mostly on your ass. Your ass, being muscle and not joints, can inherently handle the force more safely.

Powerlifters use knee wraps because undisputably you are the weakest down below parallel and the wraps serve to put some tension back into the system that 'snaps' you back up. Safety is an issue with wraps too, but a bad wrap job can be worse than no wraps at all, especially because you can store a hell of a lot of potential energy in those wraps and if they're done unevenly or poorly, you'll end up in lots of pain. I would say that a novice with wraps is going to be in more danger than a novice going below parallel with a managable weight. Plus the wraps cut off your circulation below too, that's why they go on right before a set and off right after that set. That's why their a PITA - rolling up your wraps correctly really, really wears out your hands.

I'm sure any powerlifter here can collaborate what I say.

All correct.

At parallel your knees are taking the greatest load. You want to spend as little time their as possible. If you go all the way down you by past this. You spend less time at parallel.

I'd like to add I hardly see people go to parallel or anywhere near it.

PL do a different squat. They for competition PL have the bar lower on their backs as it shortens the lever in a PL squat. They "sit" back in squat and not down. They go to parallel. They where knee wraps because it helps them lift more simply put. The elastic affect of the knee wraps helps them. Some guys will also wear a squat suit to lift more. Yes they are strong but a squat suit will add some poundage to your life. NOT important to a typical gym guy.

I say go to rock bottom. Go all the way down.

Doing 100's of push ups is TOUGH on your elbows. Doing pull ups is VERY tough on your elbows. Imagine about 90% of your weight on your elbows (some on your back but most of it on your elbows). That is A LOT of weight there.

Bench Pressing is also very tough on your elbows and shoulders.

Playing a lot of BBall is VERY tough on your ankles. Running miles and miles is very tough on your knees.

Squats are safe if you do it properly. Slowly down and up fast. DON'T CRASH to the bottom and bounce up. You will knacker your knees out eventually this way if you have no muscle to take the blows but then IT IS NOT SAFE.

Koing

 

[slycat]

gawd..just stay in bed.

 

[slycat]

what about dumbell shoulder presses or military presses?
do u lower till your at 90deg or u let it down all the way then push back up?

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: slycat
what about dumbell shoulder presses or military presses?
do u lower till your at 90deg or u let it down all the way then push back up?

All the way down. Always work full range unless you want to be specific about something of your training. i.e. only BP at rock bottom as your sticking point is usually your chest and about 3-5inch's after it. Once past it is it EASY going.

Lower all the way down on everything imo unless you have something specific in mind.

Nothing is 'heavy'. You just 'build' up to it. You don't squat 400lbs straight away. YOu take a few years to build up to 400lbs. Then it becomes much easier when you do get to it. YOu build your muscles and joints to SUPPORT the weight BY THE TIME YOU GET THERE.

Simple as that.

Koing

 

[beer]

I also support the full-range arguments, for the same reason Koing does. The only things I do with limited range are like, for example, close-grip bench (put a 50 CD spindle on my chest and touch that, any lower doesn't do your tris any good) or a very select few auxillaries.

I remember doing the squat suit thing. It was such a pain in the ass to get into, but it 'held you together' more, so to speak. I still do squats and deadlifts now, but the only gear I wear is a power belt - I forego the squat suit, the wraps, the tough-soled boots, the wrist wraps, and the chalk on the back of your shirt so the bar doesn't slide . Of course, I'm doing <275, not anywhere near the 400 I used to be able to do. I don't need to anymore.

 

[Spamela]

Originally posted by: Koing

Originally posted by: slycat
what about dumbell shoulder presses or military presses?
do u lower till your at 90deg or u let it down all the way then push back up?

All the way down. Always work full range unless you want to be specific about something of your training. i.e. only BP at rock bottom as your sticking point is usually your chest and about 3-5inch's after it. Once past it is it EASY going.

Lower all the way down on everything imo unless you have something specific in mind.

Nothing is 'heavy'. You just 'build' up to it. You don't squat 400lbs straight away. YOu take a few years to build up to 400lbs. Then it becomes much easier when you do get to it. YOu build your muscles and joints to SUPPORT the weight BY THE TIME YOU GET THERE.

Simple as that.

Koing

you neglected to mention the many hours of pain &amp; soreness that
are the price of squatting >400 lbs.

<---one who knows

 

[JackHomer]

I am gonna try squats for the first time later today when i go work out, I think I am only gonna put like 45's on each side. Lets hope i dont get all the way down and fall over, lol. I have a feeling I am not gonna be able to walk tomorrow.

 

[Koing]

I have WeightLifting shoes but I always wear them when I train in the gym. Chalk in my hands if I am doing any OL's and that is it. No belts no straps no nothing. Defiantely no straps but my hands take a beating.

I've not seen a squat suit or a deadlift suit or bench press suit but they are really tight and hard to get in to.

Koing

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: Spamela

Originally posted by: Koing

Originally posted by: slycat
what about dumbell shoulder presses or military presses?
do u lower till your at 90deg or u let it down all the way then push back up?

All the way down. Always work full range unless you want to be specific about something of your training. i.e. only BP at rock bottom as your sticking point is usually your chest and about 3-5inch's after it. Once past it is it EASY going.

Lower all the way down on everything imo unless you have something specific in mind.

Nothing is 'heavy'. You just 'build' up to it. You don't squat 400lbs straight away. YOu take a few years to build up to 400lbs. Then it becomes much easier when you do get to it. YOu build your muscles and joints to SUPPORT the weight BY THE TIME YOU GET THERE.

Simple as that.

Koing

you neglected to mention the many hours of pain &amp; soreness that
are the price of squatting >400 lbs.

<---one who knows

Very true but you don't want to tell them that and scare them off

Originally posted by: JackHomer
I am gonna try squats for the first time later today when i go work out, I think I am only gonna put like 45's on each side. Lets hope i dont get all the way down and fall over, lol. I have a feeling I am not gonna be able to walk tomorrow.

Dude just work with the bar for a few reps TO MAKE SURE YOU CAN ACTUALLY GET ALL THE WAY DOWN for one. If you can great. Now stick the 10lbs on. Then the 25lbs on. DO 15reps to start with if you have not done squats. WORK LIGHT WEIGHTS. Remember your joints are NOT USE TO HEAVY LOADS YET. Keep the weights light for 10 sessions. Let them get use to the movement patterns of the squat.

AFter your 10 sessions add more weights and cut to 10reps x 4 sets. Then another 8 sessions cut to 8reps. Your joints NOW won't be bitching at you because you once loaded too much weight and they were not use to doing squats.

THEY are HARD on UNCONDITIONED MUSCLES AND JOINTS. Your back will be sore also because you are not use to it. Start light and BUILD up to it. Then you will be FINE. If not you will be knackered.

Koing

 

[JackHomer]

Thanks very much for the advice Koing, I figured using 45's would be way to much (that is what my friend recommended to start at) I will take your advice and let you know how it works, I am off to the gym now!!