Are some cultures superior to others?

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MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
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Culture, society and, history are created by the dominant faction. It is all relative because the importance of one aspect over another is decided by the dominant faction. As individuals, we believe what we grew up with is right and 'normal.'

Intellectually we can say that a particular culture is 'better' if it encourages health and freedom for the largest number of it's followers. However, that definition is inherently Western and not shared by the largest and longest lasting cultures in humanities past.
 

Mucho

Guest
Oct 20, 2001
8,231
2
0
It all depends on what criteria you choose to define superior.

The nation of: Martin Luther • Beethoven • Immanuel Kant • Goethe • Johannes Gutenberg • Bach • Richard Wagner • Hegel • Durer etc.. also gave us Auschwitz
 

evident

Lifer
Apr 5, 2005
12,130
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i think inner city thug, "stop snitchin" culture is the absolute bane of our society and its propagated by the shitty rap music we hear in pop culture. and no its not just "black" culture, because there are lots of people of other ethnicities who love that crap. everything is superior to that
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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Not this one, its twisted puritanical roots, violent nature and greed worship make for a screwed up hypocritical culture of self-centered shallow twats as a whole with the biggest murder rates and incarcerations to prove it. If we did not have a large military/geographic advantage to secure resources and cheap labor to support our bourgeoisie lifestyle we would be another Somalia.
Ain't it amazing how many times "greed" is thrown out by people demanding access to the fruit of others' labor? Irony must be akin to string theory in complexity, to be so seldom grasped.

Absolutely some cultures are better than others.
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
i think inner city thug, "stop snitchin" culture is the absolute bane of our society and its propagated by the shitty rap music we hear in pop culture. and no its not just "black" culture, because there are lots of people of other ethnicities who love that crap. everything is superior to that

You don't like rap, who gives a shit. Some people do, are they inferior to you now? :rolleyes:
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,854
4,964
136
beside no arguments,i see nothing


O.K. fair enough.

Everything in "Western" culture came about based on the ideas / discoveries of cultures that came before it.

Do you believe that the culmination makes it superior to its predecessors, or what?
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,778
6,338
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I agree with the others who point out specifics as important and Pro/Cons in each Culture. I'd just add that it's a loaded question and in determining "Superiority", it's also important what such a determinations purpose is. All too often in History it has been used as a justification for nefarious action. Due to that, often "Superiority" is determined in a corrupt manner or more clearly the result is pre-determined and the argument is fashioned in such a way as to make One's Culture be the "Superior".

You can almost always see which Cultures or Members of that Culture have a nefarious "Superiority" aspect by gauging the reactions of a Cultures members to legitimate criticisms of that Culture.
 

Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
3,721
0
0
The way I grade cultures principally revolves around the enlightenment.

"enlightened countries" - USA, Europe, Australia, Israel (disputed), New Zealand, etc...are superior to unenlightened states - Arab world, most of Africa, etc.

I'm sure every culture has positives and negatives, but some have more negatives than positives....

It's easy to respect the culture "sensibilities" of other nations when you live in America. But many people under subjugation in say, Sudan, Egypt, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc...reject it.

When your day revolves around avoiding starvation, you can't give less of a shit about culture.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
Of course some cultures are superior to others, as not everything is equal. However, to get more specific you need criteria by which you wish to measure. For example, superior in terms of advancing the human condition? Superior as in being closer to the Islamic ideal? Superior in terms of being able to take over/replace/subjugate/annihilate other cultures?
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
How many people has "Western Civilization" killed in the last 110 years?

If other civilizations had industrialized prior to Western Civilizations, they would have slaughtered just as many. Japan did a pretty good job illustrating the possibilities on a regional scale during the late-1800s through mid-1900s.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
Yes, some cultures are better than others. My blue state culture is better than red state culture. The numbers don't lie.. We are healthier, better educated, score higher on IQ tests, and wealthier.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,821
33,838
136
Yep. Some cultures suck dogs' balls. Which is best? Who knows? There is probably some respectful culture out there that supports intellectual pursuit, personal freedom, liberty, has concern for the well being of all its members, and will get wiped off the face of the earth by the culture next door that wants the oil it is sitting on.
 

nyker96

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
5,630
2
81
Are some cultures better than others?

I don't believe that certain races are better than others, but I do believe that some cultures are better than others.

The definition of culture that I am thinking about is the "shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an instituti on, organization or group." (See Wikipedia.)

Which culture is best?

there's no definition for "better culture" it's just a label. meaningless until defined. who is to say your definition is the one we all should follow. "better culture" doesn't exist and never will, it's just a concept, a label, an abstraction.

cultures are made up of past experiences long (5000+ years for china) or short (few hundred for others). There's no "good experiences/bad experiences" just experiences. Like a story, some make you angry, some make you cry, others show you something unexpected. which is better? I think it's more productive to just learn about a culture no need to judge them.
 

Albatross

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2001
2,344
8
81
O.K. fair enough.

Everything in "Western" culture came about based on the ideas / discoveries of cultures that came before it.

Do you believe that the culmination makes it superior to its predecessors, or what?
There is only one game in town and its the western game,no matter who wins or lose ,that`s all.Try thinking meta
 
May 11, 2008
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there's no definition for "better culture" it's just a label. meaningless until defined. who is to say your definition is the one we all should follow. "better culture" doesn't exist and never will, it's just a concept, a label, an abstraction.

cultures are made up of past experiences long (5000+ years for china) or short (few hundred for others). There's no "good experiences/bad experiences" just experiences. Like a story, some make you angry, some make you cry, others show you something unexpected. which is better? I think it's more productive to just learn about a culture no need to judge them.


---------------------
The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

magnificent...
 
May 11, 2008
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If other civilizations had industrialized prior to Western Civilizations, they would have slaughtered just as many. Japan did a pretty good job illustrating the possibilities on a regional scale during the late-1800s through mid-1900s.

Indeed. The killing of people has always been around.

In the western world the idea (and it works) is to keep the people that are restless busy. When humans do something productive, humans feel positive and have a feeling that they are contributing to society. Whenever this way of thinking disappears problems arise. While people work, they can gain knowledge. And start to see the bigger picture. Unfortunately for a large part of the humans in the (western) world, they do not wish to see it. We are lucky that some wise people made the right decisions and that our current technology actually stimulates people to learn. The human mind is a powerful tool, but similar as for example a chirurgical knife, it can be used to help people (to operate) as it can be used to kill people. If you do not use it wisely, your decision will haunt you and change you. In the east this is called karma...

In the western/middle east religions, humans tend to blame everything on their god or the adversary of that god. While in effect they should be looking into the mirror. According to their own religions god gave them a free will, to act themselves. Yet clearly some actions, would justify the reversal of that holy decision. As in all honesty is the case in almost every religion ever existed.

In all honesty, every time a society starts out with good positive idea's. But will always fail in the end because sooner or later, the collective thinking falls apart because of individuals who like to be the alpha. Yet, they are unable to see that the desire of being the alpha automatically takes away the ability to be the alpha. It is all balance. Good and evil. One cannot exist without the other. You cannot desire to be the best and not turn into the worst.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma


'Karma' is an Eastern religious concept in contradistinction to 'faith' espoused by Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), which view all human dramas as the will of God as opposed to present - and past - life actions. In theistic schools of Hinduism, humans have free will to choose good or evil and suffer the consequences, which require the will of God to implement karma's consequences, unlike Buddhism or Jainism which do not accord any role to a supreme God or gods. In Eastern beliefs, the karmic effects of all deeds are viewed as actively shaping past, present, and future experiences. The results or 'fruits' of actions are called karma-phala.

Cause and effect. We do not exists separate from each other or any other life form on this planet...
 
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rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
there's no definition for "better culture" it's just a label. meaningless until defined. who is to say your definition is the one we all should follow. "better culture" doesn't exist and never will, it's just a concept, a label, an abstraction.

cultures are made up of past experiences long (5000+ years for china) or short (few hundred for others). There's no "good experiences/bad experiences" just experiences. Like a story, some make you angry, some make you cry, others show you something unexpected. which is better? I think it's more productive to just learn about a culture no need to judge them.

Very good post. Culture is just an aggregation of people. Just like going around judging people and saying you are better than other people, judging other culture saying your culture is better is just ignorant and conceited.

But having said that, also like people, culture can commit mistake at certain time in the history. Other culture can point that out and try to make things better. Just don't think you as a culture is better or never make any mistake or do anything wrong.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
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Your question is not only misguided, but dangerous.

The best culture has flaws - serious flaws.

Many 'less' cultures have some very good traits the 'better' cultures don't.

What are you going to do with this 'information' - you can't just say "oh, good trait, let's change a culture to have it."

No, the only real use of this 'information' tends to be not to improve cultures, but to increase divisiveness, Xenophobia, dehumanization of others, thinking yours is 'best' and giving yourself license to force change on others - in short, the root of much evil in the world.

And cultures are mixed. If I show you a cultre with good things - high technology, good medicine available, low poverty, whatever - and it also has bad things - colonialism, militarism, tyranny of the majority, corruption, whatever - that's more the norm. Trying to call one 'best' tends to mislead, as if it has only good things and is 'better than' other cultures that ignore their strengths.

Also, comparing cultures doesn't include the causes. Difference circumstances might lead one culture to 'look' worse than another.

And people tend to give too much weight to their own culture, things they are trained to vlaue, and not give enough to others.

What good does it do for you to say you like yours, and someone else to say they like theirs?

You are better off to discuss good and bad traits of cultures, why they are there, to ask why others value different things than you do, not to crown one 'best'.

There is much to celebrate and encourage that are good things in culture, like a love of liberty; and much that are bad, like worship of authority.

Ironically, your own question reflects one of the 'bad' things a culture can fall into IMO, as it looks to justify disrespecting and excuse dominating other cultures.

You think the Chinese are incapable of saying the Tibetans are an 'inferios' culture not worth respecting? That the Iraqis could about the Kurds, the Russians about the Chechnyans? The Europpean powers about the cultures of the countries they colonized and exploited? The United States about the "merciless Indian savages" a phrase directly in our declaration of Independance? The Mexicans about the Guatamalens? The Roman Empire about its neighbors? One religion against another?

There are two basic approaches - the one yours hints at, why your culture is 'best' and others are lesser, or respect for diversity, the good and bad in each, with a more honest look that's not driven by a hidden agenda and corruption of power to reduce any opposition to using force against others in the euphoria of thinking yours is the 'best' and your are doing those other pople a favor by making them do things like you do.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,733
6,758
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You did a pretty good job there, William Gaatjes, in my opinion. Perhaps I can tell you why I think so:

WG: In the western world the idea (and it works) is to keep the people that are restless busy. When humans do something productive, humans feel positive and have a feeling that they are contributing to society. Whenever this way of thinking disappears problems arise. While people work, they can gain knowledge. And start to see the bigger picture. Unfortunately for a large part of the humans in the (western) world, they do not wish to see it. We are lucky that some wise people made the right decisions and that our current technology actually stimulates people to learn. The human mind is a powerful tool, but similar as for example a chirurgical knife, it can be used to help people (to operate) as it can be used to kill people. If you do not use it wisely, your decision will haunt you and change you. In the east this is called karma...

M: I think this restlessness that you describe is caused by the absence of a center, a feeling that one is not complete, that something is missing, that there is something that we need. This feeling is unconscious, it drives us but we are unaware first of all that it does, and secondly what the feeling is. The feeling is self hate, and we are unconscious of the fact that we feel it because to feel it brings conscious pain.

We were born perfect, that is to say with our full human potential, we learned language which makes duality of thought possible. We were taught that there is good and evil, not that we were born perfect, and that good and evil was turned on us to make us conform to an insane and inconsistent set of cultural beliefs. We were put down with words and made to feel bad, ashamed, guilty, unworthy, etc.

And because as children we had no psychic defense, no ego capacity of denial, counterattack and blame, and because we were dependent on love and support from our elders, we were hurt the maximum possible that a person can be hurt. We were made to feel as bad as a person can be made to feel, and we would have died, physically, had we not killed that pain by walling if off behind our ego. We were divided from the perfection we were born to be and because a false being, the ego.

It is this split, this feeling we are worthless coupled with our deeply buried memory of the inner unity we had originally, that causes this restlessness, as you called it.

Because we are asleep to who we really are and exist in a false ego, motivated by feelings we do not know we have, we are in fact just walking machines, marching morons, sheep, brain dead zombies, or any of the other ways we project out their as words and concepts, who it is that is really us.

It is this mechanical, unconscious, autonomic living that is our Karma. We are mechanically walking in our sleep. We can't step off the wheel because we are unaware that we are on it.

Thus we are perfectible and we are deeply sick. We have the possibility of spiritual evolution. We can awaken. We can unconsciously feel what heals and what makes us more deeply sick and we can seek to create more love or more hate. We do so so when nothing around us is reminding us of how bad we feel, and we destroy when we are made to feel those feelings.

WG: In the western/middle east religions, humans tend to blame everything on their god or the adversary of that god. While in effect they should be looking into the mirror. According to their own religions god gave them a free will, to act themselves. Yet clearly some actions, would justify the reversal of that holy decision. As in all honesty is the case in almost every religion ever existed.

M: Religions, I believe, are past bridges to reality created by individuals who unearthed, recovered and returned to their original state of perfect. Their words, their story, and their deeds, I believe, were for their time, their place, and the local conditions of their own culture, bridges created so that their fellows around them could also recover and cross. They are like templates that describe the human conditions appropriate for a special place in time. They were ideas chosen to deal with the precise ways that those folk around them were asleep and the kind of words that were culturally appropriate to awaken them.

We are caught in the illusion of duality, of the false idea there exists good and evil. Evil actions come into being because we were taught and internalized lies when we took up language. We were put down. We are machines that act without conscious awareness as to how our self hate is motivating us, and we have created this notion of a perfect God. We can't blame Him, consciously, so we say we have free will and that our sins are our fault. Naturally we do, because we hate ourselves.

But if you were to truly see that everything that happens happens because of the will of God and God is absolute in His perfection, you are home free. Everything is exactly as it is supposed to be, as indeed it is. We are and always were perfect. But to truly surrender in faith to the perfection of God and the rightness of all that happens to us, is to die to the ego. The false self, the self divided against the truth self we were meant to be can never have that faith. You have to be a little child again to go to heaven. Jesus brought forgiveness for sins because we sin out of guilt and we were never really guilty at all. It is just how we were made to feel with put downs.

WG: In all honesty, every time a society starts out with good positive idea's. But will always fail in the end because sooner or later, the collective thinking falls apart because of individuals who like to be the alpha. Yet, they are unable to see that the desire of being the alpha automatically takes away the ability to be the alpha. It is all balance. Good and evil. One cannot exist without the other. You cannot desire to be the best and not turn into the worst.

What you call the alpha, I call the ego. It is the ego that saved us from physical death. It is our defense against the pain we can't allow ourselves to remember. But it longs to die so we can arise again to out original perfection. It longs to die but fights to the death to preserve itself and thus we are insane. Our efforts to do good are evil. What we call good is the preservation of that part of ourselves that is sick. We are insane because we are inside out and upside down.
 

Murloc

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2008
5,382
65
91
Are some cultures better than others?

I don't believe that certain races are better than others, but I do believe that some cultures are better than others.

The definition of culture that I am thinking about is the "shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an instituti on, organization or group." (See Wikipedia.)

Which culture is best?

What makes a culture better?
you can't tell, because you use a measure related to your culture, and you tend to believe your values are right.

If you take the universe as a whole, who cares if in a culture there are more homicides?

from a biological perspective I'd say that the one that survives is the best.

My answer is no, there is no better culture, just more advanced ones (if we draw a path that every culture followed in the past, we can see that some cultures are behind others on that path, but this doesn't make them worse).
 
May 11, 2008
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Thank you very much for your reply Moonbeam.
Here are my humble thoughts about these matters from my multiple perspective views:


M: I think this restlessness that you describe is caused by the absence of a center, a feeling that one is not complete, that something is missing, that there is something that we need. This feeling is unconscious, it drives us but we are unaware first of all that it does, and secondly what the feeling is. The feeling is self hate, and we are unconscious of the fact that we feel it because to feel it brings conscious pain.


I think all humans are from a certain simplified perspective no more then autistic apes. That sounds like a bold statement and it is. But i mean it in a positive way, humans can live in the inner mind more then any other life form on this planet. This gives thus the ability of advanced problem solving while looking far ahead in the future. According to some plausible and proven theories neurons are to slow to act in real time therefore our neurons behave in a ballistic nature. This means predicting future events. This ballistic nature seems to exist in the neurons that control our eye movement as well. This system can be found in many animals and perhaps humans have more advanced versions of this in other parts of the human brain, which i think seems very likely because this system allows us to do simulations and see what the result will be of a certain action. We do on a subconscious level simulations to predict a future event. How many times does it happen when you see something out of balance like a cup on a table somebody pushed against at and you know it is going to fall ? Part of it is memory, the other part is prediction. But to able to flawlessly predict the future every time you must be able to take into account every variable that exists. This is impossible and thus we ignore a lot of variables and we apply a lot of fuzzy logic which partly is compensated for because of the nature of neural networks to be able to see patterns when only partial data is delivered( Pattern recognition). This drive to predict the future is what drives us. This unusual drive is what in my opinion what is part of the cause of this restlessness . When people become more insecure and feel they are no longer in control it means this internal system in our brain is losing its grasp on reality. Take into account some other variables differing from individual to individual and you know what happens. Another thing is people are born to feel a bit unhappy, this is also an evolutionary effect because every time you do something that reaps rewards , your reward/pleasure center becomes active and the result is quite effective because this system also has control over your memory formation. Thus making sure that things or situations that make you feel good, that you remember these things or situations every time when appropriate. Thus it is part of your learning system. Evidence is seen with unhappy people. Unhappy people have a problem with learning, make them happy, see them devour what ever you throw at them. That is also an important message for the educational system that is not always understood. Al of this is a good thing but it can work against you. Because this reward system when wired wrong or under influence of chemicals can cause humans to exhibit strange unhealthy behavior.

Simplified for now : The prediction drive , the natural tendency to feel a bit unhappy to force one to act and feel happy. The memories. This all when not nurtured properly causes a lot of unhappiness and restlessness only an powerful conscious spirit can overcome and reshape.

We were born perfect, that is to say with our full human potential, we learned language which makes duality of thought possible. We were taught that there is good and evil, not that we were born perfect, and that good and evil was turned on us to make us conform to an insane and inconsistent set of cultural beliefs. We were put down with words and made to feel bad, ashamed, guilty, unworthy, etc.

And because as children we had no psychic defense, no ego capacity of denial, counterattack and blame, and because we were dependent on love and support from our elders, we were hurt the maximum possible that a person can be hurt. We were made to feel as bad as a person can be made to feel, and we would have died, physically, had we not killed that pain by walling if off behind our ego. We were divided from the perfection we were born to be and because a false being, the ego.

It is this split, this feeling we are worthless coupled with our deeply buried memory of the inner unity we had originally, that causes this restlessness, as you called it.

When born humans are unwritten pages. The neural network of the brain is extremely flexible but also very volatile and can be psychologically explosive. When human infants come into the fortunately short aggressive phase this can clearly been seen. This is just part of the social programming that needs to be done. Afcourse how you do this as a parent determines the outcome of having a happy and curious child and later on in life an happy adult. Karma at it's finest. And possible epigenetics too. Which can also be seen as a karma effect.

Because we are asleep to who we really are and exist in a false ego, motivated by feelings we do not know we have, we are in fact just walking machines, marching morons, sheep, brain dead zombies, or any of the other ways we project out their as words and concepts, who it is that is really us.

It is this mechanical, unconscious, autonomic living that is our Karma. We are mechanically walking in our sleep. We can't step off the wheel because we are unaware that we are on it.

Thus we are perfectible and we are deeply sick. We have the possibility of spiritual evolution. We can awaken. We can unconsciously feel what heals and what makes us more deeply sick and we can seek to create more love or more hate. We do so so when nothing around us is reminding us of how bad we feel, and we destroy when we are made to feel those feelings.

I am of opinion that the only solution is the gradual increase of knowledge. No flooding of knowledge because humanity will just destroy itself. Not the collective humanity will do this but rogue individuals. I like this statement, because it is true :
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach him to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life".
However, knowing the strength which is also the weakness of the human mind(which is the flexibility of the neural net) I think this version is better :
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach him to fish wisely and he will eat for the rest of his life". Because then he will only consume what he needs and uses no more.


M: Religions, I believe, are past bridges to reality created by individuals who unearthed, recovered and returned to their original state of perfect. Their words, their story, and their deeds, I believe, were for their time, their place, and the local conditions of their own culture, bridges created so that their fellows around them could also recover and cross. They are like templates that describe the human conditions appropriate for a special place in time. They were ideas chosen to deal with the precise ways that those folk around them were asleep and the kind of words that were culturally appropriate to awaken them.

We are caught in the illusion of duality, of the false idea there exists good and evil. Evil actions come into being because we were taught and internalized lies when we took up language. We were put down. We are machines that act without conscious awareness as to how our self hate is motivating us, and we have created this notion of a perfect God. We can't blame Him, consciously, so we say we have free will and that our sins are our fault. Naturally we do, because we hate ourselves.

But if you were to truly see that everything that happens happens because of the will of God and God is absolute in His perfection, you are home free. Everything is exactly as it is supposed to be, as indeed it is. We are and always were perfect. But to truly surrender in faith to the perfection of God and the rightness of all that happens to us, is to die to the ego. The false self, the self divided against the truth self we were meant to be can never have that faith. You have to be a little child again to go to heaven. Jesus brought forgiveness for sins because we sin out of guilt and we were never really guilty at all. It is just how we were made to feel with put downs.

Religion is a tool to help people see the way that is best, education. Unfortunately as any tool it can also be abused as can be clearly seen in the past and in the current present and unfortunately the not so far future, even beyond 2012. It is just a prolonging of sequence. I am not stating the existence of a far more omniscient entity is impossible, because i can not and even if i could will not prove such a statement. However, humanity has a planet to grow and enlighten itself and become closer. Yet to much people prevent humanity from reaching a higher level because of desired personal gain.


What you call the alpha, I call the ego. It is the ego that saved us from physical death. It is our defense against the pain we can't allow ourselves to remember. But it longs to die so we can arise again to out original perfection. It longs to die but fights to the death to preserve itself and thus we are insane. Our efforts to do good are evil. What we call good is the preservation of that part of ourselves that is sick. We are insane because we are inside out and upside down.

I understand what you mean with ego. But it is a balance issue, you can not have good without evil or evil without good. You cannot have democracy without dictatorship or dictatorship without democracy . You cannot have life without death or death without life. Both must exist or none will exist at all. That is the real issue of man. Failing to understand and accept and control ones body.
 
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