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Are Social Conservatives Destroying the Republican Image?
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I have to disagree with your assertion that going to church is some how preventing people from acting like "assholes" in mass. Generally if its in a person's nature to be an asshole they will do so irregardless of their religious views. History and our own statistics of religious practitioners in this nation vs those who don't practice a religion has kindly illustrated this point time and time again. It's also more then likely that any true "asshole" would hide behind a religion to justify their "asshole" nature and subsequent actions as being part of "God's will".
This whole notion that people can't THINK on their own and decide by themselves what is right and wrong is just absurd to me. Everyone has frontal lobes and the ability to put themselves in another person's shoes, reason logically, etc but some choose not to put these lobes into gear and actually use them.
AstroManLuca
Lifer
If I have faith in anything, it's my faith in the human race to consistently demonstrate its stupidity. So I can see where you're coming from. I am not a rampant religion-hater like some people here - I recognize that religion has done many good things for many people, and I think that overall it has, at the very worst, a neutral net effect on the world. More likely it's a net positive effect. The people who use religion to justify their actions are simply expressing human nature. If they had no religion they'd come up with a different justification.
However, I still think religion needs to mind its own business and quit getting involved in politics. I don't want the government telling me with whom I may have sex or how, or who I can marry, or when and where I can buy which kinds of alcoholic beverages, or any of the other religiously-motivated laws. Some religious teachings might be in line with common-sense morality, but many aren't, particularly ones regarding fun things like sex, drugs, and heresy.
dphantom
Diamond Member
Sounds more like a religous diatribe. I don't see social conservatives as the problem. Zealots yes, but they are rare just like thesecular left-wing nuts.
As a social and fiscal conservative, I have yet to see a decent presidential candidate since Reagan. I also think social and fiscal conservatives are much closer than some here would think. Poor leadrship by Bush et al has c reated a real schism in the party today. I would liken it to the Blue Dog dems and the moveon.orgies - two very disparate groups.
As a social and fiscal conservative, I have yet to see a decent presidential candidate since Reagan. I also think social and fiscal conservatives are much closer than some here would think. Poor leadrship by Bush et al has c reated a real schism in the party today. I would liken it to the Blue Dog dems and the moveon.orgies - two very disparate groups.
quest55720
Golden Member
I don't like the bible thumpers either. I was lucky enough in the 90s to have a centrist democratic party to vote for. Since 2000 I have been stuck between a rock and a hard place. The democratic party has shifted dramatically to the left. I now have to vote for someone I don't like. I either vote for the bible thumpers or the moveon.org liberals. I will vote with my wallet and that means a vote for the republicans.
OneOfTheseDays
Diamond Member
The GOP can't simply expunge the social conservatives. They need them to win elections. This is why their party is in such dire straits for the foreseeable future. They have alienated a lot of the traditional fiscal conservatives and isolationists in order to attract the war hawks and social conservatives. This worked in '00 and '04 when they could keep everyone in the same tent, but now the traditional conservatives are clearly upset and disgusted with what their party has become.
Many are turning to the Libertarian party, some are not voting, and some are holding their nose voting for Obama. If the Republicans want to ever have meaningful power again they will need to transform their party in major ways. The Democrats, for all their losing, saw the writing on the wall a long time ago and have stuck with the social progressive agenda as that is the way America is trending. We are becoming more liberal, more multi-cultural, etc. and the numbers will be on the Democratic side as the minority percentage of our population increases.
Many are turning to the Libertarian party, some are not voting, and some are holding their nose voting for Obama. If the Republicans want to ever have meaningful power again they will need to transform their party in major ways. The Democrats, for all their losing, saw the writing on the wall a long time ago and have stuck with the social progressive agenda as that is the way America is trending. We are becoming more liberal, more multi-cultural, etc. and the numbers will be on the Democratic side as the minority percentage of our population increases.
quest55720
Golden Member
Don't like the moveon.org liberals because they are pro big government and pro high taxes. They also hate oil and were loving the high gas prices this summer. I could go on and on why I dislike the moveon.org liberals. I could do the same about the bible thumpers. Both groups want to control peoples lives just in different ways.
quest55720
Golden Member
If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. The rich do not have enough money to fund near a trillion dollars of new spending. Most of Obama's tax cuts are targeted at married people with kids. I am single with no kids so I will have to pay for all those tax breaks.
AstroManLuca
Lifer
Yeah, the Republicans are in a real bind now. No matter what happens, they're screwed. If the ongoing culture war cools down, as I think they want it to, they'll get a fair number of religious conservatives to vote, but not tons of them, but at least they can still entertain Libertarians and centrist Democrats. But then someone like Mike Huckabee or Sarah Palin comes along and lights up the socially conservative base, and with all that support they can't just snub them. But people like that are divisive. Social conservatives love them, but the intellectual conservatives are offended by them, and Libertarians and lefties downright hate them.
My ultimate hope is that the recent upward trend in political coverage and discussion eventually leads to voter turnout numbers high enough to really marginalize the extremist views out there. That's how things should be. I want to see social conservatives stranded without a party. They don't deserve one. Let them hide behind their church doors.
Lemon law
Lifer
No, I think no one is understanding the social trends on this thread. And the entire thread title of Are Social Conservatives Destroying the Republican Image?, is also wrong, because its not a matter of present tense,
its a clearly a matter of past tense and that destruction has already occurred.
Ever since the time of the Goldwater defeat, this nation has been drifting ever rightward, away from the new deal liberalism, and towards traditional the GOP pragmatism. It might be one thing if we talking about traditional GOP core values, a strong defense, a pro business climate with minimal government regulation, and a balanced budget. But as the Great Society excesses of LBJ was replaced by the fascist policies
of Richard Nixon, by today's standards, Nixon would be regarded a flaming liberal.
The real decline of the democratic party may be traced to the failure to the militancy of the labor movement, necessary during the bleak days of the 1920's and 30's, but by the late 60 and early 70's, the labor movement had forgotten where they had been, and turned conservative because times were so good.
The real idiot savant precursor to the current self destruction was Ronald Reagan, a genuinely nice guy, but an intellectual feather weight. And it was Reagan who pioneered a strategy of spend and borrow, allowing Reagan to outspend democrats, while claiming it would grow our economy. Not only did this wonderful Republican electability strategy neuter true fiscal GOP conservatives in the GOP, it also inspired some me too admirers in the Democratic party. To some extent, Lieberman was the democratic pioneer of me too, as he ran well to the right to Republican Lowell Weicher and won. Bill and Hillary Clinton were later followers, but nether GHB or Bill Clinton could duplicate spend and borrow because Reagan destroyed credit markets. And it took 12 years to rebuild the US credit markets Reagan had destroyed in eight short years, with the cure being the more rational policies of GHB and Clinton.
Meanwhile, two other dominant Republican strategies emerged. (1) A slice and dice strategy, to somehow scare the hell of the the national lunatic fringe, and add that to a GOP base, to somehow put together a 50.1% voting block. And someone like Karl Rove was a genius at that cynical job. (b) GWB added all the neo con goals of a 100 year frustration, as they cheerfully dismantled over a century of common sense regulations put in place by many Presidents since Teddy Roosevelt.
Its not surprising that such polices would result in disaster, and to add insult , GWB&co refused to examine in process how their policies were working while having none of the charm and none of the rationality of Ronald Reagan.
But in less the class of the screwed bands into a new democratic coalition, even an Obama win in 08 will do little permanent.
its a clearly a matter of past tense and that destruction has already occurred.
Ever since the time of the Goldwater defeat, this nation has been drifting ever rightward, away from the new deal liberalism, and towards traditional the GOP pragmatism. It might be one thing if we talking about traditional GOP core values, a strong defense, a pro business climate with minimal government regulation, and a balanced budget. But as the Great Society excesses of LBJ was replaced by the fascist policies
of Richard Nixon, by today's standards, Nixon would be regarded a flaming liberal.
The real decline of the democratic party may be traced to the failure to the militancy of the labor movement, necessary during the bleak days of the 1920's and 30's, but by the late 60 and early 70's, the labor movement had forgotten where they had been, and turned conservative because times were so good.
The real idiot savant precursor to the current self destruction was Ronald Reagan, a genuinely nice guy, but an intellectual feather weight. And it was Reagan who pioneered a strategy of spend and borrow, allowing Reagan to outspend democrats, while claiming it would grow our economy. Not only did this wonderful Republican electability strategy neuter true fiscal GOP conservatives in the GOP, it also inspired some me too admirers in the Democratic party. To some extent, Lieberman was the democratic pioneer of me too, as he ran well to the right to Republican Lowell Weicher and won. Bill and Hillary Clinton were later followers, but nether GHB or Bill Clinton could duplicate spend and borrow because Reagan destroyed credit markets. And it took 12 years to rebuild the US credit markets Reagan had destroyed in eight short years, with the cure being the more rational policies of GHB and Clinton.
Meanwhile, two other dominant Republican strategies emerged. (1) A slice and dice strategy, to somehow scare the hell of the the national lunatic fringe, and add that to a GOP base, to somehow put together a 50.1% voting block. And someone like Karl Rove was a genius at that cynical job. (b) GWB added all the neo con goals of a 100 year frustration, as they cheerfully dismantled over a century of common sense regulations put in place by many Presidents since Teddy Roosevelt.
Its not surprising that such polices would result in disaster, and to add insult , GWB&co refused to examine in process how their policies were working while having none of the charm and none of the rationality of Ronald Reagan.
But in less the class of the screwed bands into a new democratic coalition, even an Obama win in 08 will do little permanent.
No, the whole Republican party has done a fine job of that, themselves. REAL "conservatives" were shut out of the process long ago, and those calling the shots for the party have been running a losing games that have cost the entire nation far too much.
Thousands of our troops have died for lies. That's not "conservative," it's murder.
They betrayed the Constitution. That's not "conservative," it's treason.
They sold out our financial system to the Wall Street barons and deregulated it, allowing them to rape every working American. That's not "conservative," it's grand theft.
They pimped their agenda to the fun-dumb-mental cases and promised to pass legislation to inflict theirs bass ackward social agenda on the majority of thinking Americans, making them just one more group betrayed by the Republican party. That's not "conservative," it's fraud.
And they did all of it for political and financial gain. :thumbsdown: :|
It's not even "conservative" if they did it all by mistake. If so, on the scale that they've screwed the pooch, it's sheer incompetence. That's not "conservative," it's stupid.
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