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Are single SATA drives are hot pluggable on XP?
- Thread starter computer
- Start date
lobadobadingdong
Lifer
I've never hot plugged any drive that wasn't on a backplane.
fuzzynavel
Senior member
don't forget about the potential damage to the system by doing this to a drive that wasn't built with hot swapping in mind.....also you are playing with electricity too....
in summary it may work but don't hurt yourslef!
in summary it may work but don't hurt yourslef!
Thanks for the replies guys, but I'm still not sure if you're saying it can be or it cannot be done.
Allow me to explain the reason for this. 😉 I have several IDE HD's I can use, and some SATA drives. The Cremax IcyDock IDE Aluminum "coffin" HD enclosure I was using, for some mysterious reason stopped working on just one computer, but works FINE on the rest! ANY OTHER HD enclosure STILL WORKS FINE on the PC where the Cremax stopped working!! I've given up on trying to find out what's going on.
This enclosure had the power switch, but I could not turn the HD off/on while XP was running. I'm using another enclosure temporarily until I can find an enclosure that has it ALL: GREAT cooling, temperature alarms, and a power switch. (I'm looking for a different one now than another same Cremax since it was not hot pluggable). I can't find such a beast that has GREAT cooling, temp. alarms, and a power switch, they are always lacking at least one of those features.
The IcyDock had bad cooling, even after adding a beefed up 40mm fan to replace the one that was already on it in the rear. As for getting one that's IDE or SATA.....well, we know that IDE is not hot pluggable in this instance. So, if I get one of these enclosures that's SATA, will I be able to turn it off and on while XP is running with no problems? I haven't seen any internal 5.25" bay FireWire HD coolers/enclosures, if I could fine one of them, that would probably do the trick. But, since you'd be dealing with an IDE to FW adapter (and an SATA to FW adapter if SATA can't be hot pluggable), these would probably be rather expensive. I don't understand why they'd be expensive since you can get an external IDE or SATA HD enclosure that converts to FW for only ~$25. But I've checked out these internal IDE to FW bridges or converters, and the cheapest I've found is $55 shipped! Which is ridiculous!
So, my options are using one of these enclosures in SATA, if it can do this. if not, then I'll have to keep looking for an internal FW enclosure (if such a thing even exists). If not, and SATA won't work, then I'll have to end up getting a $25 external FW enclosure and "scavenging\gutting" it for its IDE to FW converter, then putting that inside my PC case behind the IDE HD, running external power to it so I'd be able to turn it off and on while XP is running. (In case anyone is wondering why I want to be able to turn it on/off i.e. hot pluggable, it's because it's a SECOND storage HD for backups and I don't want it running all the time. My main storage backup drive is on all the time, and I've been copying data from it about weekly to the HD that's not on all the time for a second backup of everything, but it's pain to have to shut down the PC every time I want to turn it off or on to access it).
Allow me to explain the reason for this. 😉 I have several IDE HD's I can use, and some SATA drives. The Cremax IcyDock IDE Aluminum "coffin" HD enclosure I was using, for some mysterious reason stopped working on just one computer, but works FINE on the rest! ANY OTHER HD enclosure STILL WORKS FINE on the PC where the Cremax stopped working!! I've given up on trying to find out what's going on.
This enclosure had the power switch, but I could not turn the HD off/on while XP was running. I'm using another enclosure temporarily until I can find an enclosure that has it ALL: GREAT cooling, temperature alarms, and a power switch. (I'm looking for a different one now than another same Cremax since it was not hot pluggable). I can't find such a beast that has GREAT cooling, temp. alarms, and a power switch, they are always lacking at least one of those features.
The IcyDock had bad cooling, even after adding a beefed up 40mm fan to replace the one that was already on it in the rear. As for getting one that's IDE or SATA.....well, we know that IDE is not hot pluggable in this instance. So, if I get one of these enclosures that's SATA, will I be able to turn it off and on while XP is running with no problems? I haven't seen any internal 5.25" bay FireWire HD coolers/enclosures, if I could fine one of them, that would probably do the trick. But, since you'd be dealing with an IDE to FW adapter (and an SATA to FW adapter if SATA can't be hot pluggable), these would probably be rather expensive. I don't understand why they'd be expensive since you can get an external IDE or SATA HD enclosure that converts to FW for only ~$25. But I've checked out these internal IDE to FW bridges or converters, and the cheapest I've found is $55 shipped! Which is ridiculous!
So, my options are using one of these enclosures in SATA, if it can do this. if not, then I'll have to keep looking for an internal FW enclosure (if such a thing even exists). If not, and SATA won't work, then I'll have to end up getting a $25 external FW enclosure and "scavenging\gutting" it for its IDE to FW converter, then putting that inside my PC case behind the IDE HD, running external power to it so I'd be able to turn it off and on while XP is running. (In case anyone is wondering why I want to be able to turn it on/off i.e. hot pluggable, it's because it's a SECOND storage HD for backups and I don't want it running all the time. My main storage backup drive is on all the time, and I've been copying data from it about weekly to the HD that's not on all the time for a second backup of everything, but it's pain to have to shut down the PC every time I want to turn it off or on to access it).
I can say for certain that, at the very least, SATA can be hot swapped on the Asus K8V SE Deluxe, and the specification for the technology dictates that it should be doable on any SATA implementation regardless of board, drive, etc. I personally tested this using one of Abit's Serillel adapters on a regular PATA drive. So while it's not entirely the same thing, the principal is supposed to be the same.
in short... Yes =)
On a semi-related note, I've seen a lot of front-panel I/O panels (fan busses, temp lcd's, etc) that normally include things like firewire and audio ports for the front of your case start to include SATA ports as well.
in short... Yes =)
On a semi-related note, I've seen a lot of front-panel I/O panels (fan busses, temp lcd's, etc) that normally include things like firewire and audio ports for the front of your case start to include SATA ports as well.
What I'm really asking is if it's hot pluggable more so that hot swappable. Although I guess that could mean the same thing. So are you saying an SATA HD will act just like a FireWire or USB HD; being able to be shut off/on while XP is running, and it will properly be "installed" and recognized each time and accessible like USB/FireWire, again, while XP is running?
If you were using Linux, I'd just tell you to unmount the drive, yank it then when you want it back plug it in and mount it again.
You may even be able to automate the mounting when you plug it in. The kernel should detect everything, although I've never run sata drives before, but that' generally how it works.
But I don't know how to manually mount and unmount harddrives in Windows XP.
The problem is that your running the file asyncrionously. Meaning that when you write a file to your harddrive often it isn't immediately written. Instead it stores the file in RAM cache temporarially so that it appears that it has been completely written, that way multitasking is made more effecient. (say one app is asking to read a file while the other is asking to write a file, this way you can do both at the same time) And then the cache is flushed to the harddrive during a period of short harddrive inactivity.
If you pull a drive while it is in use you have a good chance of having partially written/corrupted files as a result. Once you umount the drive then the caches are flushed and it should be ok to pull it since SATA is designed to function in that manner. (but don't risk your data/drive on my word alone).
In a emergancy people can even do this with PATA drives, but it's definately not something that you want to be doing.
You may even be able to automate the mounting when you plug it in. The kernel should detect everything, although I've never run sata drives before, but that' generally how it works.
But I don't know how to manually mount and unmount harddrives in Windows XP.
The problem is that your running the file asyncrionously. Meaning that when you write a file to your harddrive often it isn't immediately written. Instead it stores the file in RAM cache temporarially so that it appears that it has been completely written, that way multitasking is made more effecient. (say one app is asking to read a file while the other is asking to write a file, this way you can do both at the same time) And then the cache is flushed to the harddrive during a period of short harddrive inactivity.
If you pull a drive while it is in use you have a good chance of having partially written/corrupted files as a result. Once you umount the drive then the caches are flushed and it should be ok to pull it since SATA is designed to function in that manner. (but don't risk your data/drive on my word alone).
In a emergancy people can even do this with PATA drives, but it's definately not something that you want to be doing.
SATA is natively hot swappable.
That said, be careful. If this is just a drive for MP3's, plug it in and off as much as you like as long as Windows isn't reading/writing to it when you do it (you'll get a BSOD.) Unplug the data cable first if you're not using an enclosure.
That said, be careful. If this is just a drive for MP3's, plug it in and off as much as you like as long as Windows isn't reading/writing to it when you do it (you'll get a BSOD.) Unplug the data cable first if you're not using an enclosure.
Well, the enclosure part is part of my question. Please see this again from earlier in this thread:
--------------------
Allow me to explain the reason for this. 😉 I have several IDE HD's I can use, and some SATA drives. The Cremax IcyDock IDE Aluminum "coffin" HD enclosure I was using, for some mysterious reason stopped working on just one computer, but works FINE on the rest! ANY OTHER HD enclosure STILL WORKS FINE on the PC where the Cremax stopped working!! I've given up on trying to find out what's going on.
This enclosure had the power switch, but I could not turn the HD off/on while XP was running. I'm using another enclosure temporarily until I can find an enclosure that has it ALL: GREAT cooling, temperature alarms, and a power switch. (I'm looking for a different one now than another same Cremax since it was not hot pluggable). I can't find such a beast that has GREAT cooling, temp. alarms, and a power switch, they are always lacking at least one of those features.
The IcyDock had bad cooling, even after adding a beefed up 40mm fan to replace the one that was already on it in the rear. As for getting one that's IDE or SATA.....well, we know that IDE is not hot pluggable in this instance. So, if I get one of these enclosures that's SATA, will I be able to turn it off and on while XP is running with no problems? I haven't seen any internal 5.25" bay FireWire HD coolers/enclosures, if I could fine one of them, that would probably do the trick (update: I found one for $80!! No way). But, since you'd be dealing with an IDE to FW adapter (and an SATA to FW adapter if SATA can't be hot pluggable), these would probably be rather expensive. I don't understand why they'd be expensive since you can get an external IDE or SATA HD enclosure that converts to FW for only ~$25. But I've checked out these internal IDE to FW bridges or converters, and the cheapest I've found is $55 shipped! Which is ridiculous!
So, my options are using one of these enclosures in SATA, if it can do this. if not, then I'll have to keep looking for an internal FW enclosure (if such a thing even exists). If not, and SATA won't work, then I'll have to end up getting a $25 external FW enclosure and "scavenging\gutting" it for its IDE to FW converter, then putting that inside my PC case behind the IDE HD, running external power to it so I'd be able to turn it off and on while XP is running. (In case anyone is wondering why I want to be able to turn it on/off i.e. hot pluggable, it's because it's a SECOND storage HD for backups and I don't want it running all the time. My main storage backup drive is on all the time, and I've been copying data from it about weekly to the HD that's not on all the time for a second backup of everything, but it's pain to have to shut down the PC every time I want to turn it off or on to access it).
------------------------------
The HD will be only for storage and backup, it's not going to have anything "active" on it. I don't want to have it running all the time since that will wear it out sooner, and it's just not necessary. But I want to be to able to "turn it on" while XP is running to put new data on it, or to get something off, then shut it back off--all the while never having to restart or shutdown the computer. You know, exactly like an external FireWire HD enclosure. Now I have one of those for additional backup, but I want this other drive to be inside my computer so I won't have another device laying on my desk that I have to move all the time when I need it. I've looked into INTERNAL FW HD enclosures but they are very expensive. Even the IDE to FW adapter costs more than an external enclosure! So, if I can do this with an SATA HD, I can use any enclosure with an open back, put an SATA drive in it and use an external power source for it. Which brings up another question: I assume an external or isolated power supply would have to be used?? All of these enclosures you see with power switches all have independent power supplies. Even the internal ones. So the power supply is not an issue since I can use a 12VDC 1.5A adapter if needed. But I'd like to know if the HD can be switched off and on using the computer's main power supply, which I doubt. If I could do it this way, I could simply mount an external power switch to the power cable going to the HD.
I've seen an IDE to SATA adapter, which is less than half the price of the IDE to FW adapter (about $22 as compared to $45 for the FW). I could use this on my existing ATA133 storage drive to convert it to a hot pluggable SATA device (if we can determine definitively if SATA will work in this type app). This adapter also needs a power source, but this brings me back to wondering if in this application would it need an isolated PS or if it could still use the PC's internal PS with an external switch.
Thanks guys.
This is really getting confusing. 😕 Some say they can do it, and some now say you can't. :disgust: I guess I'm going to have to try this myself, however I can't since I can't afford to "experiment" on this since I only have one PC that has SATA and I'm not going to risk any HD or controller damage by trying that on this PC.
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