Are peace and wide spread god belief compatable.

[MotF Bane]

And what religion was that. the HOLY ROMAN catholic church LOL. SUN- day worshipers. you haven't a clue.

They still believe in Jesus. Do you believe in Jesus? ()

 

[Genx87]

Educate me on what you think it is. Hitler was supposed to be a religious man.

Uh you made the claim Hitler and the Nazi's werent Atheists. Hitler's religion was his Nazi party.

Perhaps I used the wrong term when dealing with that movement. They were probably more agnostic than athiest.

 

[WelshBloke]

Guns don't kill people... people kill people.........

Nope Guns don't kill people... Rappers do!

 

[Craig234]

Muslim terrorists justify what they are doing through the Koran. You and I are infidels because we are not Muslim.

And yet, funny enough, they aren't attacking non-Muslims randomly. They aren't launching terrorism in Mexico and New Zealand and Czekoslovakia.

You don't see a lot of Muslim extremists attacking the US from its founding until pretty recently, either.

Maybe there's another reason for the conflict.

 

[Craig234]

Uh you made the claim Hitler and the Nazi's werent Atheists. Hitler's religion was his Nazi party.

Perhaps I used the wrong term when dealing with that movement. They were probably more agnostic than athiest.

It wasn't so simple as you misrepresent. Hitler was raised Catholic, and he (like Bush) used religion as a political weapon, saying how essential Christianity was to their nation and rallying the religious.

Hitler spoke out against the communists for their athiesm.

The Nazis were more ruthless behind closed doors; while Bush wasn't a 'phony' about being reeligious, it's documented his staff largely viewed the religious right as idiots to exploit. From Wiki:

In a speech delivered at Koblenz, August 26, 1934 Hitler states: "There may have been a time when even parties founded on the ecclesiastical basis were a necessity. At that time Liberalism was opposed to the Church, while Marxism was anti-religious. But that time is past. National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity. The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord. These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles.[53]During negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant of April 26, 1933 Hitler argued that "Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith."

 

[Genx87]

It wasn't so simple as you misrepresent. Hitler was raised Catholic, and he (like Bush) used religion as a political weapon, saying how essential Christianity was to their nation and rallying the religious.

Hitler spoke out against the communists for their athiesm.

The Nazis were more ruthless behind closed doors; while Bush wasn't a 'phony' about being reeligious, it's documented his staff largely viewed the religious right as idiots to exploit. From Wiki:

He was raised catholic but renounced it earlier in his life. His movement was clearly not christian, judaism or muslim. Using god in speeches to a mostly christian nation and being a christian are two different things. Many within his inner circle were occultists. And Hitler setout to replease religion with his party being the higher power. He was restrained by the fact the nation he was trying to transform was christian. But at every chance they subverted the church and at times even locked up clergy who spoke out about the regime.

 

[Nemesis 1]

They still believe in Jesus. Do you believe in Jesus? ()

No they believe in the teachings of Paul . Jesus forbids Killing . Paul allowed for it . If Jesus was the Living word . He did not have to suffer the cross . What Jesus did was an example for us all and it was the path he set for us. Let us be reminded of the nazi pope

 

[woolfe9999]

Uh you made the claim Hitler and the Nazi's werent Atheists. Hitler's religion was his Nazi party.

Perhaps I used the wrong term when dealing with that movement. They were probably more agnostic than athiest.

The truth about Hitler and religion is a bit more complicated. Hitler was a Christian, marginally. He referenced the notion of a divine creator several times in Mein Kampf. However, he persecuted both the Catholic and Protestant chruches in Germany (especially the Catholic) because he saw organized Christianity as a threat to NSDAP political power. He tried to Nazify the churches and their doctrine, and even tried to get them to alter and amend scriptures to accomodate Nazi ideology. Toward the waning years of his reign, he made some statements which could be construed as atheist, though the evidence suggests that he never renounced belief in some sort of God.

It is fair to say that Nazi eugenics, as well as the mass murder of Jews and others by the Nazis was predicated not so much on religion as on pseudo-scientific racial theories, while the overarching philosphy of Nazism was a something vaguely pseudo-Darwinian.

However, traditional anti-semitism in Germany was based on religious intolerance. Martin Luther's anti-semitism had contributed to and enlarged the traditional anti-semitism of Germany in particular and Europe in general. Had there not been a pre-existing religious anti-semitism in Germany as context, it is unlikely that pseudo-scientific anti-semitism would ever have come about, and even if it had, that it could ever have gained a popular foothold.

In sum, religion was not much of a factor in Hitler's racialism, but by the same token, it would likely never have emerged without religious intolerance as a cultural backdrop.

- wolf

 

[rudder]

And yet, funny enough, they aren't attacking non-Muslims randomly. They aren't launching terrorism in Mexico and New Zealand and Czekoslovakia.

You don't see a lot of Muslim extremists attacking the US from its founding until pretty recently, either.

Maybe there's another reason for the conflict.

No it is not funny... they are attacking non-muslims both calculated and randomly. Sure they are not doing this in Mexico and New Zealand and Czekoslovakia... if the governments of those nations were predominately muslim.... I am sure you could find many a news article about muslim violence.

And no they haven't attacked the U.S. and it's interests until recently... kind of cool to see what power oil money gives you. You can spend enough to reach out and touch someone.

Dude... get your head out of your ass and see the light... There is a bigger world out there than that little room where you are connected to the internet. Just because it is not on the MSM streams does not mean it is all fantasy.


http://contenderministries.org/articles/indonesia.php
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/256.htm
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com...tion-of-christians-viewer-discretion-advised/
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/muslim-persecution-christians-pakistan-0
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2009/04/video-muslim-persecution-of-christians.html
http://vodpod.com/watch/2196995-zanzibar-muslim-persecution-of-christians
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/07/islams_global_war_against_chri.html
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/06/spencer-muslim-persecution-of-christians.html
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Persecution_of_Homosexuals (threw that in there because you can virtually use any term a muslim does not agree with and you will find some terrorism in the name of islam.

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Persecution_of_non-Muslims

Let me know which of those 60 countries listed are incorrect about muslims attacking non-muslims.

 

[StageLeft]

It wasn't so simple as you misrepresent. Hitler was raised Catholic, and he (like Bush) used religion as a political weapon, saying how essential Christianity was to their nation and rallying the religious.

Hitler spoke out against the communists for their athiesm.

The Nazis were more ruthless behind closed doors; while Bush wasn't a 'phony' about being reeligious, it's documented his staff largely viewed the religious right as idiots to exploit. From Wiki:

Wow, I think somewhere along the way he kind of forgot a few of the commandments.

 

[woolfe9999]

And yet, funny enough, they aren't attacking non-Muslims randomly. They aren't launching terrorism in Mexico and New Zealand and Czekoslovakia.

You don't see a lot of Muslim extremists attacking the US from its founding until pretty recently, either.

Maybe there's another reason for the conflict.

Well, religion is used as an indoctrination tool by these terrorist organizations. They may have goals that can be viewed a political in some sense of the word, but religion is bound up in their motivations. It is also difficult to convince people to suicide themselves unless there is promise of rewards in an afterlife. Without the tool of religion, a "cause" that is political in nature would undoubtedly still be there, but it is unlikely that the proponents of this cause would be so effective in reeking mayhem.

Religion is an awfully convenient tool when your chosen method is to target civilian populations to foment terror. Targetting innocent civilians is a crime in any secular legal system, and without religious justification, is generally viewed as morally reprehensible. The role religion plays here is that it posits a higher law that is above human secular law, and above universal humanistic morality. The same problem exists when pro-life terrorists target abortion clinics - it is OK to murder when it is a commandment of God. While people can and do perform heinous acts against civilians without religion, unfortunately, adding religion to any contentious geo-political dispute will tend to exacerbate, rather than ameliorate, the violence.

- wolf

 

[Sclamoz]

And yet, funny enough, they aren't attacking non-Muslims randomly. They aren't launching terrorism in Mexico and New Zealand and Czekoslovakia.

You don't see a lot of Muslim extremists attacking the US from its founding until pretty recently, either.

Maybe there's another reason for the conflict.

Yeah, we should just keep our head down and not attract attention so the terrorists will go after other countries instead.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Uh you made the claim Hitler and the Nazi's werent Atheists. Hitler's religion was his Nazi party.

It's pretty clear from Hitler's own statements that he was at least a theist of some sort, if not a Christian.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

Perhaps I used the wrong term when dealing with that movement. They were probably more agnostic than athiest.

No, he was certainly a theist, but don't let that stop you from spruiking ignorant falsehoods for the simple reason that it fits your warped ideology.

 

[LumbergTech]

Yeah, we should just keep our head down and not attract attention so the terrorists will go after other countries instead.

How many terrorists have you rounded up lately?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

He was raised catholic but renounced it earlier in his life. His movement was clearly not christian, judaism or muslim. Using god in speeches to a mostly christian nation and being a christian are two different things. Many within his inner circle were occultists. And Hitler setout to replease religion with his party being the higher power. He was restrained by the fact the nation he was trying to transform was christian. But at every chance they subverted the church and at times even locked up clergy who spoke out about the regime.

Since when does "not an ideal Christian" mean "not a Christian at all"? No true scotsman, anyone?

Moreover, since when does "not my kind of Chrisitan" mean "atheist or agnostic." You do realize that Christians aren't the only theists in the world, right?

 

[Sclamoz]

How many terrorists have you rounded up lately?

None. How about you?

 

[Genx87]

Since when does "not an ideal Christian" mean "not a Christian at all"? No true scotsman, anyone?

Moreover, since when does "not my kind of Chrisitan" mean "atheist or agnostic." You do realize that Christians aren't the only theists in the world, right?

Are you contending the Nazi movement was some form of Christianity?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Are you contending the Nazi movement was some form of Christianity?

I must conclude you are either stupid or delusional. You have either failed utterly to interpret my simple English sentences or you are seeing statements that are not really there. Which one is it?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Did you know that "Mother in law" is an anagram of "Woman Hitler"?

It throttles the imagination~

 

[Craig234]

Wow, I think somewhere along the way he kind of forgot a few of the commandments.

So did the US. Hitler actually proclaims himself a passionate enemy of anti-Semitisim in his youth. They're being persecuted for ther religion, and that's just wrong, he's so angry it happened.

 

[Craig234]

Yeah, we should just keep our head down and not attract attention so the terrorists will go after other countries instead.

Actually, without the west, the extremists are margianlized groups in the Muslim world, almost entire occupied with trying to radicalize fellow Muslims, not the rest of the world.

If you don't understand 8 years later that 9/11 was an attack by extremists aimed at moderate Muslims by trying to get the US to react and turn moderates into extremists, you haven't paid much attention.

Nothing the little ragtag A; Queda could do could radicalize almost any of the rest of the Muslim world. They were in danger, widely opposed. How cold they get their fellow Muslims converted to extremism? The US was the most powerful nation in the world, and non-Muslim, with a history of exploiting the Middle East. If IT would attack a Muslim nation that could drive huge numbers of Muslims into the arms of the extremists, much the way the USSR had united Afghans against it.

But how do you get the US to invade a Muslim nation and piss off huge numbers of people? It's not easy. or wait, maybe it is: with an attack they can't ignore.

There was no other purpose for 9/11. It had no meaningful impact on the US as far as making it lose its position of worldd leader, lose irreplacable resources, etc.

The *only* purpose of 9/11 was to provoke the US to respond militarily.

(There was a minor secondary motive of showing the extremists could launch a real blow, sort of like Doolitle's early bombing of ztokyo in WWII for morale.

Funny enough, the right said the opposite of the truth, to try to use the event, while playing into his hands. They've never liked the anti-war left, so they argued that the left's restraint had caused bin Laden to feel assured he could 'get away' with 9/11 without the US responding. So while bin Laden attacked to get the response, the right argued he DIDN"T want one, and soe it was important we respond massively.)

Just as 'our own planes were used against as as bombs', 'our own military was used against us to radicalize'. That's how a ragtag, weak group got a big event.

You would benefit from reading a book: "Devil's Game". It explains where much of the backing of the extremists has come from. They've long been 'useful tools' for outsiders against mainstream Muslims.

 

[StageLeft]

Makes sense, Craig; you're probably right. I always thought it was a bit hopeful that Osama had not anticipated a significant response. The US had already invaded Iraq a decade earlier and done well so it wasn't averse to sending military to that part of the world. And everyone knows you can get people to join together to a common enemy, which the US is seen to be by millions.

 

[Zebo]

Uhm...no?

Provide me one instance where THEY (not the US media) have rationalized attacks through religion.

Every one of them do. Just last two to effect Americans

CIA terrorist:

“When you ponder the verses and hadiths that speak about jihad and its graciousness, and then you let your imagination run wild to fly with what Allah has prepared for martyrs, your life become cheap for its purpose, and the extravagant houses and expensive cars and all the decoration of life become very distasteful in your eyes,”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34687312/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

Flight 253 jihadist:

"I imagine how the great jihad will take place, how the muslims will win (Allah willing) and rule the whole world and establish the greatest empire once again"

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...the-world-umar-abdulmutallab-115875-21930874/

What's most interesting is he was the president of the London student Islamic Society so he knows a thing or two about Islam. And three former presidents of the London student Islamic society have been busted for terror now.

Islam's borders and innards are Bloody , everyone knows this - especially those not quite Muslim enough who suffer most. The West doesn't care about the 200,000 or so not quite Muslim enough who were slaughtered in Algeria recently, or the 150,000+ not quite Muslim enough slaughtered in Darfur, or the 25,000 a year not quite Muslim enough made to pay in Iran and on and on and on everywhere the Islamic moon rises massive blood shed.

 

[Zebo]

Did you know that "Mother in law" is an anagram of "Woman Hitler"?

It throttles the imagination~

Whoa! I might have to use that sometime.

 

[Zebo]

And yet, funny enough, they aren't attacking non-Muslims randomly. They aren't launching terrorism in Mexico and New Zealand and Czekoslovakia.

You don't see a lot of Muslim extremists attacking the US from its founding until pretty recently, either.

Maybe there's another reason for the conflict.

Yes they are - And Thai Buddhist monks who are killed at a 2000 a year clip by Muslims in Southern Thailand.

And yes you did. Jefferson is famous for studying Islam to defeat the Barbary Pirates who took hundreds of our ships, booty, sold it's passengers into slavery on Algiers slave market. Then you have Moro wars.

The reason is found in the Qu'ran and hadiths - Islam will rule all by any means necessary.