are paypal options going to be dumped in august?

[rbhawcroft]

this isnt a news site but it makes an 'analysis'

forum root

thread on 'whistle blowers'


like i said they would sell some stock even if it was another microsoft, and they would sell a lot of stock if they are another enron/ global crossings.

 

[kLezViruS]

Originally posted by: rbhawcroft
this isnt a news site but it makes an 'analysis'

forum root

thread on 'whistle blowers'


like i said they would sell some stock even if it was another microsoft, and they would sell a lot of stock if they are another enron/ global crossings.

I wonder how true this is......

I guess we have to wait and see what happens..

 

[jlee]

Hmm...I'll have to remove my checking account, and empty my paypal balance before then...the combined total is under $7, though

 

[SuperCyrix]

Paypal is suck
$1.50 to request a check?

 

[rbhawcroft]

yeah wait and see.

the problem with their business model is that they are stuck with low end accounts, ebay fraud, confilcts of interest, and having to pay a fee to the visa and mastercard system each time they do a transaction with the system whether its forwarding or reversing. out of their revenue i doubt they are making a profit.

 

[etalns]

Originally posted by: rbhawcroft
yeah wait and see.

the problem with their business model is that they are stuck with low end accounts, ebay fraud, confilcts of interest, and having to pay a fee to the visa and mastercard system each time they do a transaction with the system whether its forwarding or reversing. out of their revenue i doubt they are making a profit.

They haven't posted a profit yet

 

[rbhawcroft]

Originally posted by: Qosis

Originally posted by: rbhawcroft
yeah wait and see.

the problem with their business model is that they are stuck with low end accounts, ebay fraud, confilcts of interest, and having to pay a fee to the visa and mastercard system each time they do a transaction with the system whether its forwarding or reversing. out of their revenue i doubt they are making a profit.

They haven't posted a profit yet

i rekon the only fees that have a good net margin are paypal on paypal business business transactions, and maybe there is no margin on them at the moment. anyway the banks should hit very hard on that market within two years.

 

[PsychoAndy]

looking at the big picture, i dont think theyre gonna take off. they are #1 in ebay auction payments, but look at their bottom line (kinda a paradox, as they dont have one. they probably cant afford it). i mean, with all the fraud out there, how do they expect to stay competitive and secure with an emphasis on the customer? we've got paypal scammers out there every day trying to find some way to screw someone out of their money. on an exposure basis, theyre #1 and have a big bulls eye on their back. i think secure internet payment is a good thing, but from the way paypal is losing customers and their confidence, it looks like theyre not going to last too long.

 

[rbhawcroft]

Originally posted by: PsychoAndy
looking at the big picture, i dont think theyre gonna take off. they are #1 in ebay auction payments, but look at their bottom line (kinda a paradox, as they dont have one. they probably cant afford it). i mean, with all the fraud out there, how do they expect to stay competitive and secure with an emphasis on the customer? we've got paypal scammers out there every day trying to find some way to screw someone out of their money. on an exposure basis, theyre #1 and have a big bulls eye on their back. i think secure internet payment is a good thing, but from the way paypal is losing customers and their confidence, it looks like theyre not going to last too long.

the big screw has got to be ebay by far, then the stupidity of not forcing ppl to use a software client, but email address etc!!! then the lack of fraud prtection for businesses, then the fact that visa + mastercard rely on the banks but the banks when they get their online ops going full steam will possibly try and kick paypal from the network, that leaves paypal fully out of the game, they are fuked in this scenario. also the only advantage is an economic one, and thats small.

 

[XFreebie]

paypal did announce profitable quarter (their first and only so far)

so it looks like they wont go under! too bad they have plenty of debt to pay off

 

[PsychoAndy]

Originally posted by: rbhawcroft

Originally posted by: PsychoAndy
looking at the big picture, i dont think theyre gonna take off. they are #1 in ebay auction payments, but look at their bottom line (kinda a paradox, as they dont have one. they probably cant afford it). i mean, with all the fraud out there, how do they expect to stay competitive and secure with an emphasis on the customer? we've got paypal scammers out there every day trying to find some way to screw someone out of their money. on an exposure basis, theyre #1 and have a big bulls eye on their back. i think secure internet payment is a good thing, but from the way paypal is losing customers and their confidence, it looks like theyre not going to last too long.

the big screw has got to be ebay by far, then the stupidity of not forcing ppl to use a software client, but email address etc!!! then the lack of fraud prtection for businesses, then the fact that visa + mastercard rely on the banks but the banks when they get their online ops going full steam will possibly try and kick paypal from the network, that leaves paypal fully out of the game, they are fuked in this scenario. also the only advantage is an economic one, and thats small.

an excellent point robert. I sell on ebay quite frequently, I'm not really at liberty to disclose the exact amount that I do, but lets just say it is a very tidy sum they collect their 3% on. Im my 200+ experiences of an ebay sale, approximately 40% of my winning bidders fail to honor their end of the bargain, do not have valid information, or bid on merchandise with an intent to defraud me. ebay does not employ an active identity verification system to make the purported "safe" buying community safe. since i am a seller, i need my D/L number, name, address, and credit history verified. buyers buying the same items do not. and since i'm the one eating the listing fees if the winning bidder is some 13 year old schmuck from vermont, i dont think thats really fair. (i know all you types are wanting to crawl out of the woodwork and say listing fees are refundable, but they are NOT if someone bids, wins, and fails to complete their purchase). they have an insurance policy against fraudulent users for the bidders, but not for the sellers as well.

banks charge just as much, 2-3% off the top, plus a per transaction fee, plus a monthly equipment charge, plus a monthly equipment charge is not uncommon. i dont really see the economic viability in accepting credit cards, as it opens me to 2 things: chargebacks and higher prices.

 

[Johnnie]

PsychoAndy-Here is an auction that I received credit for.

2048176763 Apr-20-02 00:40:25 PDT No-Sale Credit 2011758470 US $8.05

 

[PsychoAndy]

Originally posted by: Johnnie
PsychoAndy-Here is an auction that I received credit for.

2048176763 Apr-20-02 00:40:25 PDT No-Sale Credit 2011758470 US $8.05

I'm not going to look at that just yet, but may I venture to say that was an item with:

1. A reserve price
2. No bids on the auction

 

[rbhawcroft]

banks charge just as much, 2-3% off the top, plus a per transaction fee, plus a monthly equipment charge, plus a monthly equipment charge is not uncommon. i dont really see the economic viability in accepting credit cards, as it opens me to 2 things: chargebacks and higher prices.

yeah a software infrastructure would probably be cheaper than a hardware one that they have now and is legacy.
if ppl could forward money from the bank account then it would cut paypal out, and low costs and prices for merchants. and only expose retailers to chargebacks which would be minimised since ccards are more susceptible to fraud.

what happens if a merchant sells and delivers goods to a fraudulant c card account, is it the card issuing bank that pays for it or the merchant?

 

[rbhawcroft]

looks from their accounts like about 90% of transaction vol is from businesses, and earns fees. they have maybe 2-3 million real accounts.

however like i said if they cant persuade ppl to switch from banks to them, then when banks offer a similar inhouse service most ppl wont be bothered to switch.


also businesses cant take them seriously as they only offer one or two services,

their main franchise is the small cc accs for small businesses, but if the banks can get their service back to speed then paypal are going to have tough competition.

so as i said the profit (and it looks like they made some last q) is from the business transactions, but they will be under tough margin pressure there soon i imagine. how does sending money with them compare to the normal us bank fees?

 

[PsychoAndy]

Originally posted by: rbhawcroft

banks charge just as much, 2-3% off the top, plus a per transaction fee, plus a monthly equipment charge, plus a monthly equipment charge is not uncommon. i dont really see the economic viability in accepting credit cards, as it opens me to 2 things: chargebacks and higher prices.

yeah a software infrastructure would probably be cheaper than a hardware one that they have now and is legacy.
if ppl could forward money from the bank account then it would cut paypal out, and low costs and prices for merchants. and only expose retailers to chargebacks which would be minimised since ccards are more susceptible to fraud.

what happens if a merchant sells and delivers goods to a fraudulant c card account, is it the card issuing bank that pays for it or the merchant?

you think the bank pays for it? hell no. they make the merchant eat it. i had a guy who wanted to buy a brand new dell rig from me. $2300 + freight to indonesia. sent me a cc number with all the info. ran the cc, $2500 auth was approved, but i didnt make the charge. i told him to fax a document asserting the info with a signature. he did 24 hours later. sure nuff, card was cancelled the next day.

EDIT: Robert, "normal" bank fees to transfer money directly from bank to bank run from $10 to $20 on the senders end. Usually another $10 to $20 on the recieving end also. Wire transfers that use the fed wire have fees, as well as the bank that sends the transfer and the reciever. I recieved funds via a fed wire a month ago, cost me $10. For every transaction $10 regardless of amount dosent cut it. Besides, we havent even discussed if the customer is willing to fork over the $20 to send it on his end. Paypal uses Electronic Fund Transfers, with I believe an Automated Clearing House. If a co-op or a similar organization could create a system that would allow people to transfer $ from bank to bank more efficiently then that would work better than the existing system of expensive wire transfers.

 

[rbhawcroft]

Originally posted by: PsychoAndy

Originally posted by: rbhawcroft

banks charge just as much, 2-3% off the top, plus a per transaction fee, plus a monthly equipment charge, plus a monthly equipment charge is not uncommon. i dont really see the economic viability in accepting credit cards, as it opens me to 2 things: chargebacks and higher prices.

yeah a software infrastructure would probably be cheaper than a hardware one that they have now and is legacy.
if ppl could forward money from the bank account then it would cut paypal out, and low costs and prices for merchants. and only expose retailers to chargebacks which would be minimised since ccards are more susceptible to fraud.

what happens if a merchant sells and delivers goods to a fraudulant c card account, is it the card issuing bank that pays for it or the merchant?

you think the bank pays for it? hell no. they make the merchant eat it. i had a guy who wanted to buy a brand new dell rig from me. $2300 + freight to indonesia. sent me a cc number with all the info. ran the cc, $2500 auth was approved, but i didnt make the charge. i told him to fax a document asserting the info with a signature. he did 24 hours later. sure nuff, card was cancelled the next day.

what % of your turnover do you recon is fraudulent then?

 

[rbhawcroft]

how do you make them pay?

 

[PsychoAndy]

Robert, theres a saying: a stupid person makes a mistake and dosent learn anything. a smart person makes a mistake and learns from it. a wise person learns from the mistakes of others. That said, i've made many mistakes of my own. I've also learned from the mistakes of others that were less fortunate than me.

i have been lucky enough to where I havent been 100% out of pocket on merchandise, IE: I havent gotten burned yet. Should I get burned, I have certain people in my rolodex that can handle the situation.

insofar as how much i reckon (reckon as used in the term believe or think has a "k") my default rate is? around 40% of winning bidders dont pay me. i've had instances where someone deliberately gave me bad COD info and I got stuck with overnight freight. but i havent lost product yet.

how do i make them pay? let me count the ways.... ebay refuses to enforce their legally binding part of their terms of service agreement. so my attorneys have prepared an auction terms and agreement as a supplement to ebays TOS. basically it states that if i dont recieve payment withinn 5 working days of the auction close, i get to sue this deadbeat. costs for serving, court fees, attorneys fees, filing fees, and all costs for recovery get passed along to said deadbeat. like i said, i havent had to go after someone who has owed me money. the only fees i am "out of pocket" are the listing fees (anywhere from $3 to $23). most of this year i've had to bite the bullet when i got a NPB, but i will have the non paying bidders legal obligations actively enforced now, since ebay refuses to do so.

 

[rbhawcroft]

Originally posted by: PsychoAndy
Robert, theres a saying: a stupid person makes a mistake and dosent learn anything. a smart person makes a mistake and learns from it. a wise person learns from the mistakes of others. That said, i've made many mistakes of my own. I've also learned from the mistakes of others that were less fortunate than me.

i have been lucky enough to where I havent been 100% out of pocket on merchandise, IE: I havent gotten burned yet. Should I get burned, I have certain people in my rolodex that can handle the situation.

insofar as how much i reckon (reckon as used in the term believe or think has a "k") my default rate is? around 40% of winning bidders dont pay me. i've had instances where someone deliberately gave me bad COD info and I got stuck with overnight freight. but i havent lost product yet.

how do i make them pay? let me count the ways.... ebay refuses to enforce their legally binding part of their terms of service agreement. so my attorneys have prepared an auction terms and agreement as a supplement to ebays TOS. basically it states that if i dont recieve payment withinn 5 working days of the auction close, i get to sue this deadbeat. costs for serving, court fees, attorneys fees, filing fees, and all costs for recovery get passed along to said deadbeat. like i said, i havent had to go after someone who has owed me money. the only fees i am "out of pocket" are the listing fees (anywhere from $3 to $23). most of this year i've had to bite the bullet when i got a NPB, but i will have the non paying bidders legal obligations actively enforced now, since ebay refuses to do so.

in the uk you can send a electronic transaction via your banks computer system its called baks and it costs about 40c.
i havent used ebay but thought they were automatically charged for the bid, obv not.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: PsychoAndy

Originally posted by: rbhawcroft
an excellent point robert. I sell on ebay quite frequently, I'm not really at liberty to disclose the exact amount that I do, but lets just say it is a very tidy sum they collect their 3% on. Im my 200+ experiences of an ebay sale, approximately 40% of my winning bidders fail to honor their end of the bargain, do not have valid information, or bid on merchandise with an intent to defraud me. ebay does not employ an active identity verification system to make the purported "safe" buying community safe. since i am a seller, i need my D/L number, name, address, and credit history verified. buyers buying the same items do not. and since i'm the one eating the listing fees if the winning bidder is some 13 year old schmuck from vermont, i dont think thats really fair. (i know all you types are wanting to crawl out of the woodwork and say listing fees are refundable, but they are NOT if someone bids, wins, and fails to complete their purchase). they have an insurance policy against fraudulent users for the bidders, but not for the sellers as well.

banks charge just as much, 2-3% off the top, plus a per transaction fee, plus a monthly equipment charge, plus a monthly equipment charge is not uncommon. i dont really see the economic viability in accepting credit cards, as it opens me to 2 things: chargebacks and higher prices.

Wow, you must be doing something horribly wrong on eBay. I've probably had about 2000 transactions over eBay in the past year and I've probably only had a handful of non-paying bidders and nobody has ever tried to defraud me.

 

[PsychoAndy]

Originally posted by: rbhawcroft

Originally posted by: PsychoAndy
Robert, theres a saying: a stupid person makes a mistake and dosent learn anything. a smart person makes a mistake and learns from it. a wise person learns from the mistakes of others. That said, i've made many mistakes of my own. I've also learned from the mistakes of others that were less fortunate than me.

i have been lucky enough to where I havent been 100% out of pocket on merchandise, IE: I havent gotten burned yet. Should I get burned, I have certain people in my rolodex that can handle the situation.

insofar as how much i reckon (reckon as used in the term believe or think has a "k") my default rate is? around 40% of winning bidders dont pay me. i've had instances where someone deliberately gave me bad COD info and I got stuck with overnight freight. but i havent lost product yet.

how do i make them pay? let me count the ways.... ebay refuses to enforce their legally binding part of their terms of service agreement. so my attorneys have prepared an auction terms and agreement as a supplement to ebays TOS. basically it states that if i dont recieve payment withinn 5 working days of the auction close, i get to sue this deadbeat. costs for serving, court fees, attorneys fees, filing fees, and all costs for recovery get passed along to said deadbeat. like i said, i havent had to go after someone who has owed me money. the only fees i am "out of pocket" are the listing fees (anywhere from $3 to $23). most of this year i've had to bite the bullet when i got a NPB, but i will have the non paying bidders legal obligations actively enforced now, since ebay refuses to do so.

in the uk you can send a electronic transaction via your banks computer system its called baks and it costs about 40c.
i havent used ebay but thought they were automatically charged for the bid, obv not.

dont i wish....ebay just puts me + some person in the market and collects 3% on the top. that legally binding crap they spew isnt worth the space its hosted on unless you have attorneys willing to back you up. The US dosent have that service unfortunately, i wish there was a cheaper way of doing things other than paypal or wire transfers.