Are military personnel overpaid or underpaid?

[TooOne21]

SOCIAL SECURITY:



(This is worth reading. It is short and to the point.)

Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years.

Our Senators and Congresswomen do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it.

You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their own
benefit plan.

In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan.

For all practical purposes their plan works like this:

When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die.

Except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments.

For example, former Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives.

This is calculated on an average life span for each of those two Dignitaries.

Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will receive much more during the rest of their lives.

Their cost for this excellent plan is $0.00. NADA....ZILCH....

This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds;

"OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK"!


From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into, -every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer)- we can expect to get an average of $1,000 per month after retirement.

Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000 monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal Senator Bill Bradley's benefits!

Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made.

That change would be to jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us ... then sit back and watch how fast they would fix it.


If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be planted and maybe good changes will evolve.

 

[jemcam]

Originally posted by: Citrix
Enlisted, way under paid
Officers, WAY OVER PAID.

Since I've been both enlisted and officer. I disagree. Enlisted folks are way underpaid, but officers are just about right. Enlisted people (especially NCO's) should be getting paid much more closer to what the officer's are making. If you take a newly commissioned 2nd LT, who has a college degree and considerable extra training for his military job and compare it to his civilian counterparts, that 2LT is underpaid also, and someone fresh out of school with a degree in a corporate situation is not going to have near the responsibility for lives and equipment that a green 2LT does. You know as well as I do that 2LT's are scapegoats and have a very hard time adjusting to the lifestyle and it's hard for them to come in wet behind the ears and supervise people that are twice their age and have been in the Army before the 2LT was in Kindergarten.

I'm just trying to point out that the officers do a hell of a lot of work too, regardless of what you may think. During my entire officer career I was always the last one to sleep, the first one up, and the last to eat because it was expected of me. You'd be surprised to learn that officers have to deal with a hell of a lot more than you may think, and their careers can be ended (or even go to Ft. Leavenworth prison) in a heartbeat because some idiot did something they weren't supposed to. The pressure is tremendous on new officers and that's why they act so goofy for a couple of years before they become normal especially those officers without any enlisted experience. I know it took me quite a long time to quit worrying about every single detail even though it was drilled into my head so much during my OCS, OBC, and senior officers counseling sessions.

 

[Ryan]

My mother (23 years - MP) and step father (17 years - Air Traffic Controller) have been in for a while and they bring home over 100k a year combined. The huge incentives to do 3,6, and 12 month remotes is very good. Nothing like $20k in the bank for going overseas for 3 months 😉

 

[StageLeft]

Mildly underpaid if the military is actively always trying to find more people. If they paid them more they wouldn't be. I base this purely on economics instead of any romantic and illconceived notion that those who put their lives on the line, blah blah no money is enough *puke*.

 

[TheAudit]

Underpaid.

The saddest thing to me are the pictures of deceased soldiers and their families. Think about it. They always look so damn poor. That's horrible.

I was in the military (Air Force, it helped to pay for my college) and I can tell you from first hand experience that they are underpaid. Listen, it's fine for a single dude. You get enough to get by. And you get housing and food (or a per diem like I did). Healthcare is provided for. Sounds good so far. But it's nowhere near enough for a family. If you live near a base, check out how our soldier's families are living, we're talking poverty level here.

So I feel that they are underpaid.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Both teachers and Military personnel are underpaid. Though active military personnel are more underpaid. Even with all the BS that teachers have to put up with, most of them are still not getting shot at.

ZV

On average teachers are underpaid but my mom does pretty good(teaches 5th grade), if I was making her money I'd be relatively happy. 🙂

Enlisted personnel are vastly underpaid.

 

[bsmithy]

neither

 

[StageLeft]

I'm not sure why people still hold to the idea that teachers are underpaid. There isn't a shortage of them around here, so how are they underpaid? That's like saying somebody at mcdonalds is underpaid at $6 to put up with the sh*t they do, but if they were underpaid they'd find a new job. Fact is they are paid exactly what they're worth - same for teachers.

 

[GroovyAsh]

Under

 

[jemcam]

Fact is they are paid exactly what they're worth - same for teachers

I sincerely hope you're not referring to military personnel. :disgust: If you are, go back to your own fvcking country and leave the U.S. now.

 

[hoyaguru]

Put it this way: Imagine you are at work one day and your boss comes in and tells you that you have to pack your bags, you are going to another country tomorrow, and by the way, the people who live there will probably not like you and may even try to kill you with guns and explosives and possibly biological weapons and possibly chemical weapons. Oh, by the way, you don't have a choice in the matter, you have to go whether you believe it is the right thing to do or not. Oh, and you also may have to kill people you don't know.

I'd say underpaid.

 

[jemcam]

Originally posted by: hoyaguru
Put it this way: Imagine you are at work one day and your boss comes in and tells you that you have to pack your bags, you are going to another country tomorrow, and by the way, the people who live there will probably not like you and may even try to kill you with guns and explosives and possibly biological weapons and possibly chemical weapons. Oh, by the way, you don't have a choice in the matter, you have to go whether you believe it is the right thing to do or not. Oh, and you also may have to kill people you don't know.

I'd say underpaid.

Well, you do have a choice. If you are absolutely certain you don't want to go you can go to jail or purposely turn up positive on a drug test. Either way, your career and probably most of your otherwise promising future is done.

 

[jemcam]

Originally posted by: hoyaguru
Put it this way: Imagine you are at work one day and your boss comes in and tells you that you have to pack your bags, you are going to another country tomorrow, and by the way, the people who live there will probably not like you and may even try to kill you with guns and explosives and possibly biological weapons and possibly chemical weapons. Oh, by the way, you don't have a choice in the matter, you have to go whether you believe it is the right thing to do or not. Oh, and you also may have to kill people you don't know.

I'd say underpaid.

Well, you do have a choice. If you are absolutely certain you don't want to go you can go to jail or purposely turn up positive on a drug test. Either way, your career and probably most of your otherwise promising future is done.

 

[DT4K]

Soldiers are underpaid.
Teachers are not underpaid, at least not public school teachers. That is a bunch of BS used by the state governments to make us feel guilty for not wanting our taxes raised.
In Oregon, the average public school teacher starts at around 30k. After a couple years of experience, most are making around 50k. That seems about right to me for a job that requires a bachelor's degree and a one year teaching program. Not to mention all the vacation they get. Most jobs don't give you summers off. Yeah, I know they have to prepare their class plans and do other work during the summer. But I know several teachers and they basically take most of the summer off while still getting paid.
Plus they get retirement plans and other beneifits that far surpass what you find in the private sector. In Oregon, many teachers make 70-90% of their former salary when they retire. Some of them actually make more in retirement than what they were earning while working.

 

[GermyBoy]

Neither. They are paid appropriately for the stupidity it takes to enlist. :😛uts on flame suit::

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: jemcam

Fact is they are paid exactly what they're worth - same for teachers

I sincerely hope you're not referring to military personnel. :disgust: If you are, go back to your own fvcking country and leave the U.S. now.

Easy there! Yes I'm talking about military personel, and the same applies for them in Canada too. If you think you're underpaid as a soldier here is an idea: Leave! People know what they're getting into with the military. It's not a big lie, so if they know what they're getting into, and are aware of the pay, how is that underpaid hmm?

If you think they're underpaid why don't you send some of your paycheck to uncle sam? People LOVE. I mean LOVE LOVE LOVE to say how teachers and military personel are underpaid, but they don't feel compelled to actually do anything about it.

It's a lot of responsibility. It's not a lot of money. And yet millions of people still sign up of their own free will. I don't see any conspiracy theory in there.

 

[ajskydiver]

Thinking of this brings back the memories...make your own decision with the following info:

As an E-4 (Specialist), single, with 3 years time in service while serving in Germany, I NETTED about $850/MONTH. This included the COLA (Cost of Living Allowance). Active duty from 91 to 95 -- so they're making a bit more now.

Being in a combat arms unit...while not in the field or deployed:

1. Average work day was 6:00 am first formation to 5:00 pm final formation. The COB formation varied by several hours due to:
1SGT being late
Co. Cmmdr. being late
Oil/Fuel spills needing to be cleaned up, etc...whims of your Plt Ldr/Sgt.

2. Doesn't include any extra duty (not punitive extra duty either) such as:
Battalion Staff Driver
Mess Hall (E-4s and above sat and took the SSN of every soldier to eat all day long) detail
Sgt. Major's detail (a fun one)...clean the entire post of trash

3. Doesn't include any weekend GI Parties or exercises of mass punishment-- example: another single soldier living in the barracks is a pig, doesn't clean up after himself...Everyone gets to spend a day (almost always a Sat.) cleaning.

4. All those "benefits" such as:

No living expenses: RIGHT, as if you'd pay money to live in the barracks...knowing at any time of the day or night, your door could be opened and your a$$ grabbed for some silly duty.

No medical expenses: RIGHT, as if you'd pay money to receive a sub-standard level of treatment.
(I broke my ankle while in Germany...and they didn't send me to Nurnberg (the nearest facility) for a cast because it would cost too much. Why didn't they cast me at my clinic? Well, the cast tech. was on leave...so they made me wait....3 weeks. A "special" trip in a van was just a pain for them to coordinate.)
(Also, in the 4 years of active duty service, I always put in for a dental appt. for a cleaning at each duty station...no how many I got in 4 years? NONE. Why? Because active duty dependants got priority for cleanings...and they didn't care as long as your teeth wouldn't stop you from being deployed. BUT, if you couldn't be deployed due to bad teeth, that was taken care of immediately.)

No food expenses: RIGHT, you'd pay money to eat in the mess hall?

5. Of course for deployment, whether training or not, you were gone and essentially worked everyday until you got home. Maybe it was a crap assignment, maybe it was cake; you were still away from your family and/or your "home".
Every field exercise I attended, at least one soldier had been killed in an accident of some kind. After calculating how much time I was "in the field" for training and deployment...I spent over 2 years (not all at the same time obviously) training/deployed out of 4 years. My first two years in Germany, for every month I spent in the barracks, I spent two in the field.

Plus, while in Hohenfels or Grafenwohr (might have mis-spelled that), it was great to see the big sign welcoming soldiers:

XX days without a training incident.
XX days without a fatality.

XX never got to be too big, sadly.

Despite all the negatives, it was a life-changing experience that worked out for the best and I strongly believe that we should have compulsory service for 2 years of all HS graduates.

No matter how bad it got, it could always get worse. Gives you a perspective on life that'll last the rest of your days...as they say in Platoon, "Every day of the rest of your life after this...gravy." Amen.

~AJ

 

[TheAudit]

Originally posted by: Aj_UF
Thinking of this brings back the memories...make your own decision with the following info:

As an E-4 (Specialist), single, with 3 years time in service while serving in Germany, I NETTED about $850/MONTH. This included the COLA (Cost of Living Allowance). Active duty from 91 to 95 -- so they're making a bit more now.

Being in a combat arms unit...while not in the field or deployed:

1. Average work day was 6:00 am first formation to 5:00 pm final formation. The COB formation varied by several hours due to:
1SGT being late
Co. Cmmdr. being late
Oil/Fuel spills needing to be cleaned up, etc...whims of your Plt Ldr/Sgt.

2. Doesn't include any extra duty (not punitive extra duty either) such as:
Battalion Staff Driver
Mess Hall (E-4s and above sat and took the SSN of every soldier to eat all day long) detail
Sgt. Major's detail (a fun one)...clean the entire post of trash

3. Doesn't include any weekend GI Parties or exercises of mass punishment-- example: another single soldier living in the barracks is a pig, doesn't clean up after himself...Everyone gets to spend a day (almost always a Sat.) cleaning.

4. All those "benefits" such as:

No living expenses: RIGHT, as if you'd pay money to live in the barracks...knowing at any time of the day or night, your door could be opened and your a$$ grabbed for some silly duty.

No medical expenses: RIGHT, as if you'd pay money to receive a sub-standard level of treatment.
(I broke my ankle while in Germany...and they didn't send me to Nurnberg (the nearest facility) for a cast because it would cost too much. Why didn't they cast me at my clinic? Well, the cast tech. was on leave...so they made me wait....3 weeks. A "special" trip in a van was just a pain for them to coordinate.)
(Also, in the 4 years of active duty service, I always put in for a dental appt. for a cleaning at each duty station...no how many I got in 4 years? NONE. Why? Because active duty dependants got priority for cleanings...and they didn't care as long as your teeth wouldn't stop you from being deployed. BUT, if you couldn't be deployed due to bad teeth, that was taken care of immediately.)

No food expenses: RIGHT, you'd pay money to eat in the mess hall?

5. Of course for deployment, whether training or not, you were gone and essentially worked everyday until you got home. Maybe it was a crap assignment, maybe it was cake; you were still away from your family and/or your "home".
Every field exercise I attended, at least one soldier had been killed in an accident of some kind. After calculating how much time I was "in the field" for training and deployment...I spent over 2 years (not all at the same time obviously) training/deployed out of 4 years. My first two years in Germany, for every month I spent in the barracks, I spent two in the field.

Plus, while in Hohenfels or Grafenwohr (might have mis-spelled that), it was great to see the big sign welcoming soldiers:

XX days without a training incident.
XX days without a fatality.

XX never got to be too big, sadly.

Despite all the negatives, it was a life-changing experience that worked out for the best and I strongly believe that we should have compulsory service for 2 years of all HS graduates.

No matter how bad it got, it could always get worse. Gives you a perspective on life that'll last the rest of your days...as they say in Platoon, "Every day of the rest of your life after this...gravy." Amen.

~AJ

That was a great, informative and interesting post. Thank you.

 

[wack0]

Originally posted by: GermyBoy
Neither. They are paid appropriately for the stupidity it takes to enlist. :😛uts on flame suit::

You can take that silly suit off, i'm not going to flame you for your ignorance.

 

[Dragnov]

Originally posted by: TooOne21

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: gistech1978
underpaid soldiers
overpaid congressmen.

Exactly!

agreeed!

Okay the Congressman makes what... about ~$150,000 per year? And how much personal expenses you think they use? TONS. It's not like the money they get from special interest goes to their wallet. It goes to their campaigns. Despite what the uniformed public thinks, personal money corruption is not very common anymore since its monitored so highly and the books are open. Not saying they are underpaid, but I don't see how they are overpaid. If they are, why dont you run for Congress and make some easy money? Notice how most elected officials are already rich? Yeah, they have to use their own money to get in office... they sure as heck don't earn money.. maybe power/influence, but not money... Look at Arnold, not even taking his paycheck. God bless him.

Currently, our soldiers are VOLUNTEERS. They are paid what they are worth. If you feel all the money, education, etc. is not worth it, then why join? Because you've seen combat? Firefighters and cops are out saving lives everyday and probably more often than anyone else... I'm definitely appreciative of what soldiers have done, but I don't get the underpaid part.

 

[Hammer]

Originally posted by: WhiteKnight

Originally posted by: Hammer
they get a lot of stuff provided to them, so that should be factored in.

Like free MREs and kevlar? 😛

Actually, I rather like most of the MREs... 🙂

yeah i was thinking of food and housing. that works out to a lot over the course of a year. 😛

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: jemcam

I'm just trying to point out that the officers do a hell of a lot of work too, regardless of what you may think. During my entire officer career I was always the last one to sleep, the first one up, and the last to eat because it was expected of me. You'd be surprised to learn that officers have to deal with a hell of a lot more than you may think, and their careers can be ended (or even go to Ft. Leavenworth prison) in a heartbeat because some idiot did something they weren't supposed to. The pressure is tremendous on new officers and that's why they act so goofy for a couple of years before they become normal especially those officers without any enlisted experience. I know it took me quite a long time to quit worrying about every single detail even though it was drilled into my head so much during my OCS, OBC, and senior officers counseling sessions.

I was always amazed at how much actual time company commanders and battalion commanders put in at the units. Absolutely incredible. IMO, officers run a greater risk of ruining their respective careers than enlisted during the course of normal duty hours.

Back to the topic, enlisted are definitely underpaid.

 

[jemcam]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: jemcam

Fact is they are paid exactly what they're worth - same for teachers

I sincerely hope you're not referring to military personnel. :disgust: If you are, go back to your own fvcking country and leave the U.S. now.

Easy there! Yes I'm talking about military personel, and the same applies for them in Canada too. If you think you're underpaid as a soldier here is an idea: Leave! People know what they're getting into with the military. It's not a big lie, so if they know what they're getting into, and are aware of the pay, how is that underpaid hmm?

If you think they're underpaid why don't you send some of your paycheck to uncle sam? People LOVE. I mean LOVE LOVE LOVE to say how teachers and military personel are underpaid, but they don't feel compelled to actually do anything about it.

It's a lot of responsibility. It's not a lot of money. And yet millions of people still sign up of their own free will. I don't see any conspiracy theory in there.

That's because most CAREER military personnel believe in their jobs so much that they would do it for half their current pay. Leaving is not an option for them, they don't WANT to do anything else. Cops are the same way.

 

[StageLeft]

That's because most CAREER military personnel believe in their jobs so much that they would do it for half their current pay. Leaving is not an option for them, they don't WANT to do anything else. Cops are the same way.

As with many careers including firefighting, veterinary (harder to get into than medschool with less pay), taking care of sick animals, etc. part of the benefits are not in money, but rather in personal satisfaction with one's career.

 

[TC2181]

I'd say neither. All the american propaganda made "the war in Iraq" look easy, since they are so small and we are so big.