are manuals becoming irrelevant?

[ShawnD1]

Every car I've been in with pretend manual slap stick mode will continue to upshift and downshift automatically regardless of you pretending to keep it in a single gear; in other words it's fairly pointless.

If you're trying to run in fifth gear at 10mph or first gear at 50mph then buying an automatic is probably a good idea.

 

[TridenT]

If you're trying to run in fifth gear at 10mph or first gear at 50mph then buying an automatic is probably a good idea.

I actually would like it if my car wouldn't let me shift to first gear going 50-60. I was actually tempted to try it in the car I drive right now and then I was like, "Mmm... :hmm: What if it actually lets me though? 😱 Let's not take that risk... :\ ()🙂 :awe:"

 

[fleabag]

If you're trying to run in fifth gear at 10mph or first gear at 50mph then buying an automatic is probably a good idea.

I agree... though for shits and giggles, a civic VX could probably go 50mph in 1st gear what with its tall gearing and all..

 

[TruePaige]

But they still have the same sloppy mushy shifts of an automatic transmission.

A DSG transmission outperforms a manual in every category. Far from mushy.

I tried out a 6 speed auto DSG Aura recently. It was pretty slick. Same with the VW GTI I tried out.

Nice automobiles, better performance, tapshift capabilities if you are into that thing.

 

[RedArmy]

I agree... though for shits and giggles, a civic VX could probably go 50mph in 1st gear what with its tall gearing and all..

No.

 

[EightySix Four]

I agree... though for shits and giggles, a civic VX could probably go 50mph in 1st gear what with its tall gearing and all..

44mph in first. At redline in 5th gear it would be doing ~203 and it would take 432hp to do so.

 

[RedArmy]

44mph in first. At redline in 5th gear it would be doing ~203

Interesting fact: After reaching about 110mph, the wiper motor in the 4th gen Hondas are unable to hold back the wipers from rising up and going across the windshield.

 

[fleabag]

44mph in first. At redline in 5th gear it would be doing ~203

Yeah you're correct, just checked it myself.. Well, with the '01-'05 civic HX, you could get up to 47mph by redlining it in 1st gear...

Interesting fact: After reaching about 110mph, the wiper motor in the 4th gen Hondas are unable to hold back the wipers from rising up and going across the windshield.

Poor aerodynamics right there..

 

[EightySix Four]

Yeah you're correct, just checked it myself.. Well, with the '01-'05 civic HX, you could get up to 47mph by redlining it in 1st gear...



Poor aerodynamics right there..

I wasn't trying to prove you "wrong" just thought it was interesting. Even more interesting that it'd take less than 450hp to get to 203mph 😛

Hmm...
1. Take Civic VX + LS7 (50 extra hp to deal with the added weight)
2. Go fast
3. ????
4. Profit!

Yes, I'm only kidding.

 

[RedArmy]

Poor aerodynamics right there..

Well, to be fair, the car (which actually had great aerodynamics) with the original engine it had was not meant to go that fast. It may have actually been a bit faster than what I said but I can't remember since it was years ago. Point is: Hondas were not meant to go fast. As always, there's exceptions to the rule, but overall it pretty much holds true.

 

[alkemyst]

I wasn't trying to prove you "wrong" just thought it was interesting. Even more interesting that it'd take less than 450hp to get to 203mph 😛

Hmm...
1. Take Civic VX + LS7 (50 extra hp to deal with the added weight)
2. Go fast
3. ????
4. Profit!

Yes, I'm only kidding.

240sx + LS1/2/6/7 = lighter car than original engine/trans.

just don't punch it in a corner.

I have been debating this swap, but I think the SR20DET will be a more civilized daily driver. If I was into crushing cars at the strip or highway pulls I'd definitely do the LS1 or LS2.

 

[JulesMaximus]

A DSG transmission outperforms a manual in every category. Far from mushy.

I tried out a 6 speed auto DSG Aura recently. It was pretty slick. Same with the VW GTI I tried out.

Nice automobiles, better performance, tapshift capabilities if you are into that thing.

Dual clutch gearboxes are not the same as an automatic. And, I don't care if they "can" outperform a manual, they are overly complex, overly expensive, and reliability is questionable.

I don't think manuals are becoming irrelevant.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Shift behavior and shift speed and firmness can all be re-programmed (or changed out parts in the valve body). I know shift behavior is purposefully programmed to not allow you to break the car, I'm just saying people who think they have a manual if they have a +/- on their conventional automatic (read: torque converter + planetary gears) should think again, it doesn't work that way. Sorry to break it to anyone who thinks this, but you aren't going 65 mph in first gear because that's where you left the stick. Every car I've been in with pretend manual slap stick mode will continue to upshift and downshift automatically regardless of you pretending to keep it in a single gear; in other words it's fairly pointless. It will not let you redline or hit the rev limiter or behave with any semblance to a manual in factory form.

Also if you think an auto can't do hard firm shifts, you need to ride along in an old school muscle car with a shift kit that gives you whiplash and broken motor mounts with every shift. Current day transmissions are made to shift sloppy with some solenoid overlap from the factory for a reason.

The real determining factor and the distinction people are making when they talk manual vs. automatic is solid vs. fluid coupling between the engine and transmission (and to a lesser extent, straight gear layouts and synchros vs. planetary gear sets and brake bands). This is why an automatic with "manual mode" is still referred to as an automatic by everybody, while a dual clutch SMG which is also fully automatic is still referred to as a "manual" even though it isn't (because it's a manual style gearbox layout with shift forks and such).

And you've just confirmed my comment about automatic transmissions.

I don't refer to dual clutch gearboxes as manuals.

 

[TehMac]

In terms of a large market, manuals are irrelevant and someone pointed out earlier.

However, when it comes to actually enjoying the car and bonding with the car, manuals are superior.

But honestly, a good car will always matter more than a manual gearbox.Of course, a manual might make a good car great.

 

[EightySix Four]

240sx + LS1/2/6/7 = lighter car than original engine/trans.

just don't punch it in a corner.

I have been debating this swap, but I think the SR20DET will be a more civilized daily driver. If I was into crushing cars at the strip or highway pulls I'd definitely do the LS1 or LS2.

The civic has a lower Cd and would be faster.

Edit: the 240sx has a lower CdA though, so I'm wrong, the 240sx would be.

 

[hanoverphist]

Honda > Toyota. On the up side, this slush bucket transmission gets the same gas mileage as my Honda and I can do it while smoking a cigarette.

i have a dodge ram 1500 with a manual trans and smoke while driving all the time. its not really that hard to accomplish :sneaky:

I actually would like it if my car wouldn't let me shift to first gear going 50-60. I was actually tempted to try it in the car I drive right now and then I was like, "Mmm... :hmm: What if it actually lets me though? 😱 Let's not take that risk... :\ ()🙂 :awe:"

ive tested that in my truck. if im over 30mph, i cant force it into first without feeling like im going to break something, even tho i know i wouldnt let out the clutch if it did let me. i did do it in a early 70s amc javelin tho, it was a 3 spd stick and an accident happened on the freeway in front of me. i jacked the brakes and dumped it to 1st, stopped in time to miss parts from the accident. was very scary tho. im really glad that sucker had new tires on it too, it wouldnt have stopped as well if it hadnt just had new ones put on.

 

[JulesMaximus]

In terms of a large market, manuals are irrelevant and someone pointed out earlier.

However, when it comes to actually enjoying the car and bonding with the car, manuals are superior.

But honestly, a good car will always matter more than a manual gearbox.Of course, a manual might make a good car great.

It's kind of funny, on the used Porsche market, many people want to avoid the Tiptronic equipped models and the manual transmission cars are more sought after.

If anything manuals really are only "irrelevant" in the states. This is not the case in many other countries around the world though.

 

[hanoverphist]

Just wait...
$6.00 per gallon in the US would produce a lot of skinny people 🙂

only if i could figure out how to get 3 kids to school 9 miles away without a car/ truck... 😛

Anyway, I hope that the discussion about auto vs manual will end soon with a rise of electric vehicles. I will convert to the auto with my first electric car...

i hope when electric cars are mainstream they have gearboxes to shift the ratios for performance and economy, giving us all a mandatory "manual shift" in every car.that would be cool. hell, my remote control toys already have a "HI" and "LOW" setting for their gears as it is.

 

[vi edit]

It's kind of funny, on the used Porsche market, many people want to avoid the Tiptronic equipped models and the manual transmission cars are more sought after.

If anything manuals really are only "irrelevant" in the states. This is not the case in many other countries around the world though.

In many other countries cars are ridiculously priced and are taxed on engine sizes as well as having extraordinarily high gas prices. In Europe it's rare to see anything bigger than a 4 cylinder engine even in 5 series BMW's and similar sized cars. But a majority of cars sold are very small, compact vehicles with very little engines. It's all about cost and wringing every extra bit of performance out of that thing.

Over here even "economy" sedans are shipping with very large 4 cylinders and and the vehicles themselves are supersized. And cheap. An automatic just isn't that much more for most people and the engines are already so powerful that it's not like it's sapping that much extra power away or you need that much more micromanagement over the shifts.

We are just a very, very different market than most other countries.

 

[randay]

On many new transmissions this isn't necessarily true. They'll let you bounce off the rev limiter all you want and the only thing it keeps you from doing is shifting too low and running the revs up (a DSG does the same).

my honda fit behaves in this way except it also does not honor my upshifts when going uphill. i swear my car has a motion sensor and knows when im going downhill or uphill...

 

[lsd]

Interesting fact: After reaching about 110mph, the wiper motor in the 4th gen Hondas are unable to hold back the wipers from rising up and going across the windshield.

My 240sx does it at 120mph and it scares the shit out of me every time. It seems like at exactly 120mph it does it too.

 

[goobernoodles]

Interesting fact: After reaching about 110mph, the wiper motor in the 4th gen Hondas are unable to hold back the wipers from rising up and going across the windshield.

I definitely got to 120 or so in my old beater 4th gen accord without any wipers going anywhere.

 

[JulesMaximus]

In many other countries cars are ridiculously priced and are taxed on engine sizes as well as having extraordinarily high gas prices. In Europe it's rare to see anything bigger than a 4 cylinder engine even in 5 series BMW's and similar sized cars. But a majority of cars sold are very small, compact vehicles with very little engines. It's all about cost and wringing every extra bit of performance out of that thing.

Over here even "economy" sedans are shipping with very large 4 cylinders and and the vehicles themselves are supersized. And cheap. An automatic just isn't that much more for most people and the engines are already so powerful that it's not like it's sapping that much extra power away or you need that much more micromanagement over the shifts.

We are just a very, very different market than most other countries.

Much like Americans themselves...

 

[TruePaige]

Dual clutch gearboxes are not the same as an automatic. And, I don't care if they "can" outperform a manual, they are overly complex, overly expensive, and reliability is questionable.

I don't think manuals are becoming irrelevant.

Not the same? It shifts..automatically. By definition that is an automatic, no? 😛

They not only can, they do outperform a manual.

They are not much more expensive when added as an option, usually like an extra grand. A lot of decent cars come with them already factored into price as many companies are finding it more efficent to run off all DSG vehicles than make a manual just to save a few bucks.

They are great vehicles, and between DSG powered vehicles and future electric vehicles I think that manual transmissions will really be speciality items in the future.

I also see in a later post you said that DSG is more of an American thing, which sounds strange considering many of the DSG powered vehicles were pioneered by European manufacturers (Audi and VW had some of the earliest mass market DSG vehicles that I can recall).

If you like driving manuals, that is fine and I hope you enjoy it. If it saves you a few bucks (perhaps 10-13 dollars a month on payments if they offer the manual option on DSG optioned cars) than good for you. I just don't find it very fair to down talk a technically superior product to try and reinforce your own position.

 

[vi edit]

Much like Americans themselves...

Yeh, you drive a Maxima...it's not exactly a Corolla. Why did you buy that instead of something smaller?