Classy, you made an assumption, I do not know that Thomas got into Yale based only on affirmative action and I seriously doubt that you do.
Question, were any blacks admitted to Yale before Affirmative Action program was put into place?
But that is not the true point, which is, Should the government be in the job of promoting racism by these programs?
or as Justice Scalia said.
JUSTICE SCALIA agreed that strict scrutiny must be applied to racial classifications imposed by all governmental actors, but concluded that government can never have a "compelling interest" in discriminating on the basis of race in order to "make up" for past racial discrimination in the opposite direction. Under the Constitution there can be no such thing as either a creditor or a debtor race. We are just one race in the eyes of government.
Isn't the best solution the one that includes no racial discrimination?
edit/ Classy that also raises the point that Justice Thomas pointed out. How does a person under affirmative action know that he got the job based on his merits only or because of affirmative action.
Mikal, try to stay on subject or find another thread please. This is a difficult topic to discuss and it appears to me that you are not helping.
Question, were any blacks admitted to Yale before Affirmative Action program was put into place?
But that is not the true point, which is, Should the government be in the job of promoting racism by these programs?
or as Justice Scalia said.
JUSTICE SCALIA agreed that strict scrutiny must be applied to racial classifications imposed by all governmental actors, but concluded that government can never have a "compelling interest" in discriminating on the basis of race in order to "make up" for past racial discrimination in the opposite direction. Under the Constitution there can be no such thing as either a creditor or a debtor race. We are just one race in the eyes of government.
Isn't the best solution the one that includes no racial discrimination?
edit/ Classy that also raises the point that Justice Thomas pointed out. How does a person under affirmative action know that he got the job based on his merits only or because of affirmative action.
Mikal, try to stay on subject or find another thread please. This is a difficult topic to discuss and it appears to me that you are not helping.
shiner
Lifer
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Has anyone here ever been a victim of Affirmative Action? I have. When I first applied for Grad School I was turned down because "all the slots for white males were full" Now my letter didn't say that but when I went to the department and asked what the reason behind my rejection was I was told by 3 of my professors that was the reason. I graduated with my B.A. with a 3.83GPA, scored in the 98th percentile on the GRE but was rejected for less qualified people. IT took me 3 semesters to finally get officially accepted. Tell me....is that right? No! Acceptance to College, Grad School, etc... should be based on ability alone. Instead it is based on skin color and gender. Of the 38 people that were selected into the graduate school before me only 6 ever finished. Why? Most should have never been there and I was told so by the professors and selection committee. Why were they there then? Simple, they had to meet their quota of minorities.
AA should be done away with and people should be accepted or rejected purely based on their ability. AA is nothing but reverse discrimination. Those that support it are nothing but light racists because they believe without it that minorities can't get ahead in the world. BS!! They have the same chance as the rest of us.
AA should be done away with and people should be accepted or rejected purely based on their ability. AA is nothing but reverse discrimination. Those that support it are nothing but light racists because they believe without it that minorities can't get ahead in the world. BS!! They have the same chance as the rest of us.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
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If a Liberal were to look at a group like American blacks and deem that they are not capable of achieving the American Dream on their own without help from the Government then yes, they are Racist. On the other hand, if a Liberal saw an injustice being done to that same group and that Government must intervene to prevent that particular group from being artificailly held back then that is playing fair and is by no means Racist. Unfortunately the Pale Faces holds the reigns of of the Carriage called Big Business and unless they are made to relinquish it on occasion these Minority groups will constantly be denied the opportunity to better themselves unless they exert a Herculean effort.
Now I don't knock Thomas for his achievments as he has earned his position in society, whether you agree with his politics or not. But not all Minorities, in fact not all people in General are capable of doing what Thomas did, yet you find Whites Achieving the lofty status of Thomas without the same effort but you hardly ever find a person who is a Minority able to accomplish the same because of the barriers put up before them by white society.
Now I don't knock Thomas for his achievments as he has earned his position in society, whether you agree with his politics or not. But not all Minorities, in fact not all people in General are capable of doing what Thomas did, yet you find Whites Achieving the lofty status of Thomas without the same effort but you hardly ever find a person who is a Minority able to accomplish the same because of the barriers put up before them by white society.
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<< Leave it to a conservative to put up a post like this. Do you even know the definition of the word racist? >>
First of all, i'm a Libertarian, so your statement is incorrect. If you wish to correct it to reflect my political beliefs, then fine, but i don't think that the Conservatives would proudly hold me out as being one of their kin, nor would i hold myself out as one of them either. With that being said, let's continue.
<< The statements in the article were not racist, they were directed at one person. >>
Again, you miss my point. I clearly know what the definition of racism is, I dealt with it directly for quite a few years as a leader in various Army units while i was in the service. I've dealt with racists directly over the years, and not from some removed intellectual discussion vantage point either, but having to get involved directly, with all my actions having very real consequences on lives and careers. Thankfully, the number of true and virulent racists left nowadays is relatively small, but that's another topic. But to suggest that i do not know what racism is, that is an incorrect statement.
I would not have a problem with their remarks concerning Thomas, had they not injected race into the discussion. This was not a casual reference to his race, such as if i were trying to point someone out in a crowded room, and said, "he's standing next to the real tall black guy," which is using race in a simple descriptive way, and is utterly harmless. Likewise, his race would be utterly immaterial to a discussion on, say, his intellectual abilities, had that been the point of their arguments. If i told you, "i have a very stupid friend, and oh yeah, she's white," would that not strike you as odd? If you can give me a single good reason why they made special mention of his race, i will retract my statement that what they said had racial undertones. The racist insinuation is not that he, Clarence Thomas the individual is unintelligent, but rather that he is a unintelligent black man, therefore establishing an unspoken link between race and intelligence.
<< Has anyone here ever been a victim of Affirmative Action? I have. When I first applied for Grad School I was turned down because "all the slots for white males were full" Now my letter didn't say that but when I went to the department and asked what the reason behind my rejection was I was told by 3 of my professors that was the reason. I graduated with my B.A. with a 3.83GPA, scored in the 98th percentile on the GRE but was rejected for less qualified people. IT took me 3 semesters to finally get officially accepted. Tell me....is that right? No! Acceptance to College, Grad School, etc... should be based on ability alone. Instead it is based on skin color and gender. Of the 38 people that were selected into the graduate school before me only 6 ever finished. Why? Most should have never been there and I was told so by the professors and selection committee. Why were they there then? Simple, they had to meet their quota of minorities.
AA should be done away with and people should be accepted or rejected purely based on their ability. AA is nothing but reverse discrimination. Those that support it are nothing but light racists because they believe without it that minorities can't get ahead in the world. BS!! They have the same chance as the rest of us. >>
Poor baby. Want some Whine with your cheese. Has anyone ever been a victim of racism, I have. How do you know those people didn't have 3.93 GPA's and scored in the top 99%? You don't. But its people like you who want to make me just throw up. Is it inconceivable to think some blacks or other minority is smarter than you? How about the other white guys, why did they get in before you? Were they smarter as well or maybe applied earlier? And what grad school is this? I seriously doubt that the selection committee or 3 profs told you that? I think your just mad because you went out in the real world and found some brothers and minorities smarter than you.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
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<< Simple, they had to meet their quota of minorities. >>
Well Whinerburke, now you have a taste of what it is like to be discriminated against.This should motivate you to help do away with all forms of discrimination based on Race, Religion and Sex where you may run across it.
shiner
Lifer
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Poor baby. Want some Whine with your cheese. Has anyone ever been a victim of racism, I have. How do you know those people didn't have 3.93 GPA's and scored in the top 99%? You don't. But its people like you who want to make me just throw up. Is it inconceivable to think some blacks or other minority is smarter than you? How about the other white guys, why did they get in before you? Were they smarter as well or maybe applied earlier? And what grad school is this? I seriously doubt that the selection committee or 3 profs told you that? I think your just mad because you went out in the real world and found some brothers and minorities smarter than you.
How do I know they weren't more qualified than me? Because I was told so by both professors and members of the selection committee. Is it inconceivable to think that a minority might be smarter than me? No, in fact I know many that are. In fact my mentor was a black man and he's one of the people that told me I was more qualified than the people that got in before me. I actually applied before I finished my B.A but the way the program is setup they only accept 19 people per semester. Out of that 19 only 4 slots are available for white males.
How do I know they weren't more qualified than me? Because I was told so by both professors and members of the selection committee. Is it inconceivable to think that a minority might be smarter than me? No, in fact I know many that are. In fact my mentor was a black man and he's one of the people that told me I was more qualified than the people that got in before me. I actually applied before I finished my B.A but the way the program is setup they only accept 19 people per semester. Out of that 19 only 4 slots are available for white males.
shiner
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2000
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Well Whinerburke, now you have a taste of what it is like to be discriminated against.This should motivate you to help do away with all forms of discrimination based on Race, Religion and Sex where you may run across it.
I don't discriminate, why should I be held guilty for things other people do? Personally I don't care what color, sex, religion someone is as long as they are qualified for whatever it is they are applying for and are not being accepted because they belong to whatever group.
I don't discriminate, why should I be held guilty for things other people do? Personally I don't care what color, sex, religion someone is as long as they are qualified for whatever it is they are applying for and are not being accepted because they belong to whatever group.
classy -
all you do is make excuses. you say affirmative action is needed cause racism still exists yet you show no relationship on how affirmative action corrects the wrongs of racism. i assume your talking about the relatively low socio-economical stance of blacks. the flaw in your reasoning is that the people that affirmative action screws over in no way, shape, or form contributed to the low socio-economical stance of blacks. if blacks want to succeed then they need to work hard, plain and simple. you think its just coincidence that blacks are stereotyped as being lazy?? there is so much more racism shown by blacks against whites than visa versa. just listen to rap music, "kill the white man", "i dont like the white man", etc. NEWS FLASH: white society isnt holding back the black man, or any other minority group. history, and laziness are what hold back black society. black society needs to stop listening to jesse jackson and start listening to alan keys, clarence thomas, those types
affirmative action is racism. how can it not be when it looks at the color of somebody's skin in order to infer something about that person??
are conservativs racists? HELL NO! are librals racist? the jesse jackson types certainly are! the jesse jackson types APPLAUD when a black man kills white people and gets away with it *cough* OJ simpson case *cough*
all you do is make excuses. you say affirmative action is needed cause racism still exists yet you show no relationship on how affirmative action corrects the wrongs of racism. i assume your talking about the relatively low socio-economical stance of blacks. the flaw in your reasoning is that the people that affirmative action screws over in no way, shape, or form contributed to the low socio-economical stance of blacks. if blacks want to succeed then they need to work hard, plain and simple. you think its just coincidence that blacks are stereotyped as being lazy?? there is so much more racism shown by blacks against whites than visa versa. just listen to rap music, "kill the white man", "i dont like the white man", etc. NEWS FLASH: white society isnt holding back the black man, or any other minority group. history, and laziness are what hold back black society. black society needs to stop listening to jesse jackson and start listening to alan keys, clarence thomas, those types
affirmative action is racism. how can it not be when it looks at the color of somebody's skin in order to infer something about that person??
are conservativs racists? HELL NO! are librals racist? the jesse jackson types certainly are! the jesse jackson types APPLAUD when a black man kills white people and gets away with it *cough* OJ simpson case *cough*
Poor baby. Want some Whine with your cheese. Has anyone ever been a victim of racism, I have. How do you know those people didn't have 3.93 GPA's and scored in the top 99%? You don't.
hahahahahah
one grad school part of univ of mich would simply add points to the test scores of their black applicants. the u.s. supreme court ruled recently that this type of policy violeted the u.s. constitution.
why is the average sat scores and gpa of blacks lower than that of whites and asians at nearly every universitie? even the ones that no longer use affirmative action type policies. why is it that a black man is more likely to be accepted than a white man if his sat scores and gpa fall below the school average??
to imply that blacks tend to score as high as asians and whites on standardized tests is pure ignorance. when blacks score just as high, then they will be accepted at the same rate.
hahahahahah
one grad school part of univ of mich would simply add points to the test scores of their black applicants. the u.s. supreme court ruled recently that this type of policy violeted the u.s. constitution.
why is the average sat scores and gpa of blacks lower than that of whites and asians at nearly every universitie? even the ones that no longer use affirmative action type policies. why is it that a black man is more likely to be accepted than a white man if his sat scores and gpa fall below the school average??
to imply that blacks tend to score as high as asians and whites on standardized tests is pure ignorance. when blacks score just as high, then they will be accepted at the same rate.
Has anyone here ever been a victim of Affirmative Action? I have. When I first applied for Grad School I was turned down because "all the slots for white males were full" Now my letter didn't say that but when I went to the department and asked what the reason behind my rejection was I was told by 3 of my professors that was the reason. I graduated with my B.A. with a 3.83GPA, scored in the 98th percentile on the GRE but was rejected for less qualified people.
i believe it. a friend of mine has a 3.97gpa and his gre's were well above the average for MIT grad school, yet he was rejected. how the hell do you score above average and get rejected?
i knew a mexican girl in high school that scored barely above 1100 on the sat's, and her gpa was descent at best, she was on the wait list at princeton. another mexican girl who scored below 1000 was accepted to berkeley. and the girl who got into berkeley w/ a sub 1000 score was accepted in the post AA era. unbelievable
i believe it. a friend of mine has a 3.97gpa and his gre's were well above the average for MIT grad school, yet he was rejected. how the hell do you score above average and get rejected?
i knew a mexican girl in high school that scored barely above 1100 on the sat's, and her gpa was descent at best, she was on the wait list at princeton. another mexican girl who scored below 1000 was accepted to berkeley. and the girl who got into berkeley w/ a sub 1000 score was accepted in the post AA era. unbelievable
<< Your title Are Liberals really closet racists? is just a bogus way to start some stuff. >>
no kidding. the consuming hatred of liberals (as evident by more than few thread titles) by some here is hilarious. How this much hate can brew just over a different idealology is weird and unhealthy. I'm certain the response will be "hey they're hateful liberals,too" enjoy the cycle of hate if you wish
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<< if blacks want to succeed then they need to work hard, plain and simple. >>
Funny, i'm white, and i had to work hard to make something of myself (well, to the extent which i have anyway)... i hope you're not saying that only blacks need to work hard to get ahead?
<< you think its just coincidence that blacks are stereotyped as being lazy?? >>
Those who do stereotype blacks as being lazy, have obviously never bothered to look very hard at the black population. Of course, it's kinda normal not to see the achievers in a given group, because they're out there working their ass off, leaving the lazy ones behind to be seen. Strangely enough, Mexicans were always labeled with the tag of being lazy, but i'm here to tell you, they with rare exceptions bust their ass. I challenge anyone here on the forums to outwork a Mexican immigrant.
<< there is so much more racism shown by blacks against whites than visa versa. just listen to rap music, "kill the white man", "i dont like the white man", etc. >>
I'm not talking about cultural issues here. Saying that hip-hop and rap lyrics is an accurate representive of the morality of African-Americans is downright ludricrous. That's like saying that country music lyrics represent the morality of whites. Blacks aren't all 'gangstas' anymore more than whites are all pickup truck driving, beloved patriot-tonk bar going rednecks.
<< If you can give me a single good reason why they made special mention of his race, i will retract my statement that what they said had racial undertones. The racist insinuation is not that he, Clarence Thomas the individual is unintelligent, but rather that he is a unintelligent black man, therefore establishing an unspoken link between race and intelligence. >>
How can you be so dense? NOT ONCE in that article does the reporter, or any of the persons in the article, compare Clarence Thomas to any other black person!!!! The only one making a generalization about a group of people is you! The phrase "Uncle Tom" is offered because he is black, and turned his back on affirmative action after using it to his advantage. That description is apt.
This is what you did: A group of "liberals" (since you do not know they are liberals and just assume so also speaks volumes; nowhere in the article does it say that the persons making derogatory comments about Thomas are Liberal) speak out against Clarence Thomas. You paint all liberals with the same brush, and accuse us of being racist! There is zero evidence that all liberals feel the same way about Clarence Thomas, but you want to think that we do. This points directly at your own preconcieved notions about a group of people that are not based on fact--i.e. racism. The fact that you are so quick to paint all liberals as "racist" speaks far more about your attitudes than it does about ours.
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<< How can you be so dense? NOT ONCE in that article does the reporter, or any of the persons in the article, compare Clarence Thomas to any other black person!!!! >>
Oh yeah, your logic is impeccable, since they didn't mention another black person by name, therefore it's not racist. WTF? Are you f***ing stupid? So if the KKK only mentions one black person by name as someone who should be lynched, that's not racist either? Does the term 'enabler' mean anything to you?
Oddly enough, the only people they compared him to were white - namely Chief Justice Rehnquist and Justice Scalia. In fact, they directly compare him to Scalia, saying, "?[Thomas] is a lesser version of Scalia, and not of a high level of quality.? So i suppose Scalia is excused for being opposed to affirmative action because he's not black, yet because Thomas is, he's "an anti-Christ" and "a Hitler."
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<< This points directly at your own preconcieved notions about a group of people that are not based on fact--i.e. racism. >>
By the way, that would be stereotyping, not racism, you dumbass. Racism is the fallacy of believing that another race is inferior strictly on the basis of being of a different race, or that one race is superior to another. And you accuse me of not knowing what racism is.
i hope you're not saying that only blacks need to work hard to get ahead?
no what im saying is that the harder you work, the more success you will enjoy.
[edit]whats ludicrous is saying that blacks DONT need to work harder to achieve more success. the success that blacks achieve isnt being limited by white society.[/edit]
no what im saying is that the harder you work, the more success you will enjoy.
[edit]whats ludicrous is saying that blacks DONT need to work harder to achieve more success. the success that blacks achieve isnt being limited by white society.[/edit]
I'm not talking about cultural issues here. Saying that hip-hop and rap lyrics is an accurate representive of the morality of African-Americans is downright ludricrous.
i never said that. i simply said that rap lyrics show that racism againt whites is much more prominent in black culture than racism againt blacks is in white culture.
i never said that. i simply said that rap lyrics show that racism againt whites is much more prominent in black culture than racism againt blacks is in white culture.
Those who do stereotype blacks as being lazy, have obviously never bothered to look very hard at the black population
i suppose all stereoypes are just b.s., right? white men can jump just as high, dance just as well,...
i suppose all stereoypes are just b.s., right? white men can jump just as high, dance just as well,...
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