I asked this question more than a year ago. Many people thought that Legacy ports were still useful but are they now? Almost everything now is eaither USB or firewire. Abit's MAX series doesnt have any legacy ports at all ( max2 has ps/2 ports )! Apple has long since dropped legacy ports and the floppy. When will all motherboards get rid of the serial, parallel, and PS/2 ports? Never?
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Are legacy ports dead ?
- Thread starter majewski9
- Start date
BlueWeasel
Lifer
Once hardware vendors decide to stop making legacy devices (PS/2 mice, keyboards, parallel printers, etc.) entirely, then I think you will start seeing boards with no legacy ports.
I honestly don't know why, though. Is it cheaper to mass produce USB only devices or make boards with USB only connections?
I still use my PS/2 port for my MX500 mouse and keyboard. Heck, I even use the parallel port to print to keep from using up a USB port.
I honestly don't know why, though. Is it cheaper to mass produce USB only devices or make boards with USB only connections?
I still use my PS/2 port for my MX500 mouse and keyboard. Heck, I even use the parallel port to print to keep from using up a USB port.
Well thats kinda what I am saying since parallel ports and serial ports get in the way of more USB ports. Heck I believe most chipsets support 6 ports but most motherboards have 2 USB ports. I am using both of mine on my ECS K7S5A. I have all other ports disabled except ps/2.
ViRGE
Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
For all practical purposes, legacy ports are dead. On the high-end side of things, there are a few devices such as lab equipment that still use the serial port, but for what we do, there's not really any need. All printers can be had in a USB form, as can mice and keyboards, and for the odd fellows out there, even UPS's. The only reason they're not gone is everyone dragging their feet; no one wants to stop putting legacy ports on in case you need them, and no one wants to quit making legacy devices in case your machine doesn't support USB. Apple did the right thing here, they made a descision and stuck to it, and had killed off most of the need for legacy ports within a year(printers were about the only thing that didn't move fast enough). They're dead alright, someone just hasn't recieved the message.
ST4RCUTTER
Platinum Member
Heh...they're dead to me.
USB 2.0 or higher please!
😀
USB 2.0 or higher please!
😀
go PS/2 ports. I still use my MS optical mouse and MS Natural Keyboard on my computer.
I do have 4 USB ports, but it'd be waste to use them on the USB. My printer is parallel and USB, but i didn't want to spend any money on a longer parallel cord, so i stuffed it into my printer on USB. Other ports are used interchangeable with my CanonA40, Intel Webcam and Kazoo MP3 player.
I do have 4 USB ports, but it'd be waste to use them on the USB. My printer is parallel and USB, but i didn't want to spend any money on a longer parallel cord, so i stuffed it into my printer on USB. Other ports are used interchangeable with my CanonA40, Intel Webcam and Kazoo MP3 player.
cleverhandle
Diamond Member
I've never seen why people are so dead set on getting rid of old ports. I've never heard of someone having driver problems or IRQ conflicts with their PS/2 mouse or keyboard, but it happens frequently enough with USB devices. Especially if your OS is not Windows. USB mice/keyboards have their advantages, particularly for laptops, but for a straightforward desktop machine where you're not going to be unplugging the peripherals all the time, I don't see the point.
As for serial ports, there are a number of less common peripherals that use them, as was mentioned above with lab equipment. My GPS receiver, for example, has a serial interface to the PC. I suspect a straight serial port is easier to program for and cheaper to produce than USB for manufacturers making low-volume production runs. Serial ports are good for interfacing to network equipment as well.
Only thing I can really see going is the old parallel port. Not much good for anything these days.
As for serial ports, there are a number of less common peripherals that use them, as was mentioned above with lab equipment. My GPS receiver, for example, has a serial interface to the PC. I suspect a straight serial port is easier to program for and cheaper to produce than USB for manufacturers making low-volume production runs. Serial ports are good for interfacing to network equipment as well.
Only thing I can really see going is the old parallel port. Not much good for anything these days.
True serial ports are much easier to program. I have done interfacing with parallel ports. Interfacing a USB port is much harder and I dont want to even think about interfacing a USB 2.0 port.
That is aside the point. I understand why Serial and Parallel printer ports existed but I dont get why they exist now. First off a lot of people say that they are "saving" a USB port by using ps/2. Well if there were no serial or ps/2 ports theyd be replaced. Heck Abit AT7 offers 6 usb ports on board and 2 with a header. 8 ports! The only reason I dont own one is that it uses KT400 and Abit is really dumb for not releasing Nforce2 Max series.
I admit some handhelds still sync with serial mostly outdated palm designs. Some networking printers and hubs do as well but they more commonly use Network cable. I guess the only reason that parallel and serial ports are on todays motherboards is because of cost. I think that the benefits out weigh the cost here though. I havent used a parallel port since early 2000. I havent used a serial port on one of machines since 1996. I still use a ps/2 port for my keyboard.
That is aside the point. I understand why Serial and Parallel printer ports existed but I dont get why they exist now. First off a lot of people say that they are "saving" a USB port by using ps/2. Well if there were no serial or ps/2 ports theyd be replaced. Heck Abit AT7 offers 6 usb ports on board and 2 with a header. 8 ports! The only reason I dont own one is that it uses KT400 and Abit is really dumb for not releasing Nforce2 Max series.
I admit some handhelds still sync with serial mostly outdated palm designs. Some networking printers and hubs do as well but they more commonly use Network cable. I guess the only reason that parallel and serial ports are on todays motherboards is because of cost. I think that the benefits out weigh the cost here though. I havent used a parallel port since early 2000. I havent used a serial port on one of machines since 1996. I still use a ps/2 port for my keyboard.
Hey majewski, think I got in on your topic last time 🙂
Still using an IBM model M so still want to keep PS/2 around. Abit's Max2 series pleased me with their reintroduction as I see it as a reasonable compromise position until the ISA bus is gone from southbridges. Whilst it remains for other purposes, keep PS/2.
Really though I'm surprised serial and parallel have hung on into the new year. Even I won't fight on their behalf and this from someone using a new twenty year old keyboard! To see not one, but two serial ports on Abit's NF7-S along with a parallel port was a shock. I really don't expect to see more than 1 serial port on anything these days, but especially a newly designed nForce2 board and even more especially so from Abit. And then to see Asus, an arguably more conservative company when it comes to board (solid/stable/not too exciting) design only include one at the same time was more of a head scratcher. The world's gone plum crazy.
I haven't use a serial port since my last serial mouse. But I do understand that there are a lot of early digital cameras that came out with serial hookups, a bit of bad timing before USB got it's act together that will probably keep at least one serial port in place for a few more years because of these devices as much as the rest of the old modems, mice and less common hardware combined.
Personally at this point I'd like to see parallel/serial phased out like other ports are phased in....put some bare headers on the motherboard. If someone wants parallel/serial they can then go buy the brackets at their cost. Same as early USB adopters had to do. Same as some are having to do now as firewire is catching on with PCs (finally). Go this route and you clean up the backplane for everyone else, don't clutter up motherboards, and most of all motherboard companies make a tidy profit selling overpriced 'epansion brackets' for reenabling those ports. Also serves to be a paid form of market research - instead of spending money to find out what people want, people pay them and all they have to do is track sales of brackets. When demand gets to point X, then drop parallel/serial entirely. Works out great for everybody, or so I'd think.
But keep PS/2 for a little longer. It's small and not too ugly even when not in use 🙂
Really though, while you did ask this last year I wonder how much the average person's peripherals have changed in that time. When printers came out with USB hookups there were a lot of new printers introduced, lot of sales, lot of buying. How hot were printers last year? When mp3 players first came out they were parallel hookup, then USB, but how many of those who bought an early model have upgraded? Just like the digi camera situation, lots of average 'mom, pop and two small kids' consumers aren't out buying upgraded models of stuff as long as the old still works. I know we're impatient around here, even me, but I do wonder how much things have changed for the average marketed to consumer in that time. Was kinda a slow consumer year, ya know?
--Mc
Still using an IBM model M so still want to keep PS/2 around. Abit's Max2 series pleased me with their reintroduction as I see it as a reasonable compromise position until the ISA bus is gone from southbridges. Whilst it remains for other purposes, keep PS/2.
Really though I'm surprised serial and parallel have hung on into the new year. Even I won't fight on their behalf and this from someone using a new twenty year old keyboard! To see not one, but two serial ports on Abit's NF7-S along with a parallel port was a shock. I really don't expect to see more than 1 serial port on anything these days, but especially a newly designed nForce2 board and even more especially so from Abit. And then to see Asus, an arguably more conservative company when it comes to board (solid/stable/not too exciting) design only include one at the same time was more of a head scratcher. The world's gone plum crazy.
I haven't use a serial port since my last serial mouse. But I do understand that there are a lot of early digital cameras that came out with serial hookups, a bit of bad timing before USB got it's act together that will probably keep at least one serial port in place for a few more years because of these devices as much as the rest of the old modems, mice and less common hardware combined.
Personally at this point I'd like to see parallel/serial phased out like other ports are phased in....put some bare headers on the motherboard. If someone wants parallel/serial they can then go buy the brackets at their cost. Same as early USB adopters had to do. Same as some are having to do now as firewire is catching on with PCs (finally). Go this route and you clean up the backplane for everyone else, don't clutter up motherboards, and most of all motherboard companies make a tidy profit selling overpriced 'epansion brackets' for reenabling those ports. Also serves to be a paid form of market research - instead of spending money to find out what people want, people pay them and all they have to do is track sales of brackets. When demand gets to point X, then drop parallel/serial entirely. Works out great for everybody, or so I'd think.
But keep PS/2 for a little longer. It's small and not too ugly even when not in use 🙂
Really though, while you did ask this last year I wonder how much the average person's peripherals have changed in that time. When printers came out with USB hookups there were a lot of new printers introduced, lot of sales, lot of buying. How hot were printers last year? When mp3 players first came out they were parallel hookup, then USB, but how many of those who bought an early model have upgraded? Just like the digi camera situation, lots of average 'mom, pop and two small kids' consumers aren't out buying upgraded models of stuff as long as the old still works. I know we're impatient around here, even me, but I do wonder how much things have changed for the average marketed to consumer in that time. Was kinda a slow consumer year, ya know?
--Mc
The legacy ports will stay as long as peripherals that use them stay.
For an enthusiast or, indeed, a significant proportion of users - there is nothing tying them to the old serial and parallel ports.
However, there are numerous peripherals that do use them:
As have already been mentioned, older digital cameras and PDAs use serial ports - these sold in significant numbers, and are unlikely to be replaced soon. There are other more specialised devices, such as GPS receivers. There are also industrial and scientific devices that use legacy ports.
At a research lab where I worked, they used a very high tech audiology sound system (worth about $100,000) - the controller for this was an ISA card - originally it had been installed in a Pentium machine, but they had upgraded to a Pentium 3, for a bit more performance.
One problem that they face now, is if they upgrade the PC, they won't be able to use the system, as the PC will have no ISA slots. The manufacturer of the sound system do offer a PCI card 'upgrade' but it costs a cool $10,000. It'll be costly to upgrade when they eventually need to.
The other problem is the barrier to development:
USB and other high speed interconnects also add cost and complexity to the development of new products. I've got friends who have designed and built their own ISA cards out of off-the-shelf components. In fact, one of them designed and built it as a high-school science project. PCI, however, is difficult - even a low-end development kit costs several $k. Prototypes aren't hand-buildable, they need 4 layer or 6 layer PCBs. Many small businesses would struggle to successfully, design, build and test a PCI card.
Similarly, while there are many off-the-shelf microcontrollers which support USB - the programming is a pain - not to mention the drivers. Fortunately, some manufacturers provide low-cost development kits for their USB devices (only a few hundred $), but some do cost thousands. Serial comms are trivially easy to implement, and a few pence worth of chips will do the job.
For an enthusiast or, indeed, a significant proportion of users - there is nothing tying them to the old serial and parallel ports.
However, there are numerous peripherals that do use them:
As have already been mentioned, older digital cameras and PDAs use serial ports - these sold in significant numbers, and are unlikely to be replaced soon. There are other more specialised devices, such as GPS receivers. There are also industrial and scientific devices that use legacy ports.
At a research lab where I worked, they used a very high tech audiology sound system (worth about $100,000) - the controller for this was an ISA card - originally it had been installed in a Pentium machine, but they had upgraded to a Pentium 3, for a bit more performance.
One problem that they face now, is if they upgrade the PC, they won't be able to use the system, as the PC will have no ISA slots. The manufacturer of the sound system do offer a PCI card 'upgrade' but it costs a cool $10,000. It'll be costly to upgrade when they eventually need to.
The other problem is the barrier to development:
USB and other high speed interconnects also add cost and complexity to the development of new products. I've got friends who have designed and built their own ISA cards out of off-the-shelf components. In fact, one of them designed and built it as a high-school science project. PCI, however, is difficult - even a low-end development kit costs several $k. Prototypes aren't hand-buildable, they need 4 layer or 6 layer PCBs. Many small businesses would struggle to successfully, design, build and test a PCI card.
Similarly, while there are many off-the-shelf microcontrollers which support USB - the programming is a pain - not to mention the drivers. Fortunately, some manufacturers provide low-cost development kits for their USB devices (only a few hundred $), but some do cost thousands. Serial comms are trivially easy to implement, and a few pence worth of chips will do the job.
Jeff7
Lifer
Ok, howabout having 2 dedicated USB ports for keyboard and mouse, and several more for other peripherals. I wouldn't mind seeing legacy ports go away; too many IRQ's used - serial ports use up 1 IRQ each, parallel uses another, PS/2 uses another. USB can all use one IRQ, possibly 2 if there's conflicts for whatever reason.
The Abit AT7 was mentioned here; it's almost completely legacy free; no parallel, no serial, looks like it just has PS/2 ports, with plenty of USB , some Firewire, audio, and NIC ports. So there are some boards that are phasing out the old stuff.
Really? I can't stand mice without them. They are very nice for scrolling in webpages, though the keyboard is still best for scrolling larger distances, and it's very handy in games as a way of switching weapons.
Why don't you like them?
The Abit AT7 was mentioned here; it's almost completely legacy free; no parallel, no serial, looks like it just has PS/2 ports, with plenty of USB , some Firewire, audio, and NIC ports. So there are some boards that are phasing out the old stuff.
Really? I can't stand mice without them. They are very nice for scrolling in webpages, though the keyboard is still best for scrolling larger distances, and it's very handy in games as a way of switching weapons.
Why don't you like them?
I did see a link somewhere on the boards here to a new motherboard, a P4 I believe, that has 3 ISA slots. Ah, here it is.
Mark R - you do know there are P4 motherboards with ISA still, yes?
Just like parallel/serial, I -think- maj and I are both just talking regular consumer/enthusiast boards you'll find at Newegg. Nothing to prevent someone from making boards with those ports on them into the next decade.
Quick search of 'Pentium 4 motherboard ISA" yielded:
Link
I'm sure it's not the only one on the planet, and even if it is it's a socket 478 board that's gotta cost a lot less than the $10,000 it'd cost to convince your vendor to supply a PCI card.
--Mc
Just like parallel/serial, I -think- maj and I are both just talking regular consumer/enthusiast boards you'll find at Newegg. Nothing to prevent someone from making boards with those ports on them into the next decade.
Quick search of 'Pentium 4 motherboard ISA" yielded:
Link
I'm sure it's not the only one on the planet, and even if it is it's a socket 478 board that's gotta cost a lot less than the $10,000 it'd cost to convince your vendor to supply a PCI card.
--Mc
My TI-89 connects to the computer with a serial cable. Yes, I know they sell USB cables these days for the same purpose, but I don't want to have to go spend another $20 or $30 on one. 🙁
Also, most good external hardware modems connect with a serial cable.
<-- has an external hardware modem.
Also, most good external hardware modems connect with a serial cable.
<-- has an external hardware modem.
They get in the way of a third button, and that is one thing I can't stand being without.
Granted, they can work as a button as well, but that's one mighty crappy button.
I actually tried out a Logitech with a wheel, mostly cause it had a better shape than the one Im using now, and it was an optical.
Very nice mouse, but I just couldn't get used to that ****** wheel, it kept annoying me to no end.
I do my scrolling and weapons switching with keys, so no advantage in a wheel there either.
To me, a wheel on a mouse is like all those crappy useless features they keep putting into cellphones(cameras, email, WAP, etc etc), I don't want it, I just want a mouse with a good shape, good steer, and three good buttons, the same way I just want a simple cellphone with a good menu system, good button panel, 5+ line display, and good standby/use time, no more, no less.
vegetation
Diamond Member
I like having serial ports, and com ports as well. I can see how the elimination of the parallel port is important though, as it's huge and takes up a lot of panel space, definitely an important factor with small-footprint cases like Shuttle's cubes.
Dude, you are insane. Putting a wheel on the mouse was something they should have done from the start. I cant live without it. Whenever I have to use a mouse without the wheel, I find myself constantly rubbing in between the two buttons because the damn wheel isnt there. And it works great as a button, I have used it as my reload for years now...
DannyBoy
Diamond Member
I only use usb for my keyboard and mouse + cable modem.
Saying that i also use USB for my printer 😕
In actual fact i dont have anything else i would use legacy ports for anyway?!
Considering the speed difference from USB 2's 400meg trasfer rates compared to the lousy transfer rates of certain legacy ports,
i dont think i would want to print on my parralel ports etc etc.
ANyways ta ta
dan
Saying that i also use USB for my printer 😕
In actual fact i dont have anything else i would use legacy ports for anyway?!
Considering the speed difference from USB 2's 400meg trasfer rates compared to the lousy transfer rates of certain legacy ports,
i dont think i would want to print on my parralel ports etc etc.
ANyways ta ta
dan
Sometimes legacy ports can be useful. We have 1 printer shared between 2 PC's, having one on USB, one or parallel is really useful, and old periphercals such as keyboards that you can re-use when you upgrade are good, and most are PS/2.
What about game ports? Are they legacy? They're not too bad. Most legacy ports are quite good because they allow you to keep some USB ports free. If you had a digital camera, printer, mouse, keyboard, scanner, gamepad or two, then you've used 6 or 7 USB ports already and you'd need to get a hub. With legacy, you can limit it to 2 or 3 USB ports. Most things like printers don't need a superfast interface, neither do gamepads, keyboards etc.
What about game ports? Are they legacy? They're not too bad. Most legacy ports are quite good because they allow you to keep some USB ports free. If you had a digital camera, printer, mouse, keyboard, scanner, gamepad or two, then you've used 6 or 7 USB ports already and you'd need to get a hub. With legacy, you can limit it to 2 or 3 USB ports. Most things like printers don't need a superfast interface, neither do gamepads, keyboards etc.
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