Are Jews White or are they Minorities?

[Harvey]

"White" genreally refers to caucasian people, which is a racial classificatioh. Judaism is a religion, and Jews come in all colors. Beyond obvious Afro-Amercian conversions, there are black Jewish tribes in Africa, Asian Jews in the Orient, Arabic Jews in the Middle East, and lots of mixtures in between.

 

[Maetryx]

Hmmmm. I suspect that the silent majority out there (who fear crucifixion for speaking the obvious truth) are believers in the existence of genetic racial categories, including at least Whites, Blacks, Asians, Jews, American Indians and Arabs.

 

[wfbberzerker]

this is one of those things that blurs the line about exactly a "minority" is. although judaism is a religion, there is a definite background to us. way back in the day, jews stuck together and basically only married other jews, so they develop certain attributes that are unique.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Maetryx
Hmmmm. I suspect that the silent majority out there (who fear crucifixion for speaking the obvious truth) are believers in the existence of genetic racial categories, including at least Whites, Blacks, Asians, Jews, American Indians and Arabs.

Well, yes, that's obvious. But like I said before, when it comes down to it we're all really African-American

 

[Maetryx]

Yeah, but I'm a creationist, so I believe we're all Garden of Eden-Americans.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Maetryx
Yeah, but I'm a creationist, so I believe we're all Garden of Eden-Americans.

Oh boy. Let's not start that debate again

 

[bizmark]

According to the most 'scientific' sources I've seen, there are only a few races per se:

Caucasoid (inc. part of Middle East, Northern Africa, scattered all the way into India and Mongolia, also inc. Ethiopians (hybrid w/ Negrids but closer to Caucasoid) and Ainu Japanese)
Negrid (sub-Saharan Africans)
Australapid (Australian natives)
Mongolid (East Asians and Pacific Islanders... and Native Americans are grouped here too)

Everything else is either a hybrid or a subrace. One source that I found just now to refresh my memory has the following subraces of the Caucasoid race:

-Europid (further splits into Nordid (northern European) and Alpinid (middle Europe into Poland and Ukraine)
-Mediterranid (inc. 2 groups: Spain, Italy, Greece, S. France; and Orientalid (Arab / Middle Eastern))
-Ainu (Japan)
-Turanid (central Asia from the Caspian Sea to Mongolia -- a hybrid between Caucasoids and Mongolids)
-Aethiopid (Ethiopia and Somalia (hybrid with Negrids))
-Sanskrit (India, Pakistan, Afganistan, etc.)

Of course these are probably still up for debate somewhat, but I do remember reading about the distinctions between the subraces. Like prevalence of eye and hair colors (e.g. blonde/blue obviously highest among Nordid subrace), the general shape of the skull (very tall and narrow for Nordids and somewhat rounder for Alpinids), and various subtle things in the nose.

I remember hearing somewhere that modern African Americans have, on the average, 25% European blood... there are many so-called 'Blacks' in America who really look more White than Black (Halle Berry being a prominent example -- she is at least 1/2 white) but are still called (and call themselves) African American. *shrug*

Hispanicity is officially treated by the U.S. government, as it should be, as an ethnicity, not a race. One can be nearly 100% African blood and have a Spanish last name and speak Spanish, and still be Hispanic. One can be 100% White and do the same. There are even some Asian Hispanics (like the guy who I think was pres. of Argentina or something? I forget). So on the 2000 Census, there were two questions: one for Race and one for Hispanicity. People are first asked "Do you consider yourself Hispanic or Latino?" and THEN they're asked what Race they consider themselves (and Hispanic is NOT an option). However, while technically correct, this causes a problem as many Hispanics in the U.S. are racial hybrids (Native Americans mixed with Europeans and Africans) and therefore have no real racial identity.... only their ethnic identity. I work for a Survey organization, and on our national surveys we ask the question the same way that the Census bureau does. And every time, almost all of the "Others" are those who also identify themselves as Hispanics, and if there's a place to specify what they mean by "Other", they almost always respond "Hispanic" or "Latino".

So, to the topic .... I think that Jewishness is as much an Ethnicity as Hispanicity (sorry if these nominalizations seem awkward, but they're the best I could come up with). If you have one parent or grandparent who is/was 'Hispanic', then you are too, regardless of whether you're actually White, Black, Asian, or whatever. The same thing with Jewishness (although the rules are somewhat stricter... being Jewish is passed maternally).

So it's really like you're looking at two orthogonal things. Race and Ethnicity.

 

[Maetryx]

In any case, the fact that many different races have chosen Judaism as a religion does not remove the genetic link between semitic Jews, anymore than the fact of our ultimate common ancestry (Africa or otherwise) doesn't remove the obvious racial categories that have develped since.

 

[Nefrodite]

i dunno, as chinese i look at em and they seem pretty white to me. i mean like aren't ben stiller, gwinith paltrow, that queen amidala chick etc all jews?

 

[pulse8]

You can't convert to become a different race, so I wouldn't consider them a race. It's a religion.

 

[bizmark]

Originally posted by: Maetryx
In any case, the fact that many different races have chosen Judaism as a religion does not remove the genetic link between semitic Jews, anymore than the fact of our ultimate common ancestry (Africa or otherwise) doesn't remove the obvious racial categories that have develped since.

Yeah and there's definitely a bloodline of the Ashkenazi Jews (I think I spelled that right) who are actually from a region in Eastern Europe (Georgia?) (i.e. they're not Semites).... IIRC a whole kingdom converted to Judiasm or something. I think that the characteristics of these people are what we recognize as stereotypical Jews in the U.S. and Europe.... black hair, dark eyes, nose shape...

Semi-funny anecdote about this: my first year in college I overheard a conversation between an Asian guy and a Jew (we were all in a class together), and the Asian guy was talking about how he could recognize Jews just by looking at them.... we were standing out in a hallway watching people pass by. And for the most part I agreed with him as he pointed people out, although I really couldn't say why. Eventually I asked the guy what his technique was, and he said he just tried to imagine the person wearing one of the little hats (yarmulkas).... :Q

Sorry if that was offensive to anybody, but I just thought that it was funny And it seems like we have a crowd in here tonight that can talk about such things without being unnecessarily offended, so maybe I'll be okay

 

[zippy]

Originally posted by: Spoooon
Do you think "Jew" is an offensive word? By offensive, I don't mean the equivalent of "ni***r" or anything, but still it has a certain tone to it that makes it sound a little demeaning. Though, Jewish person is kind of clumsy and doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. On the other hand, you don't call Methodists "Meths" or Baptists "Baps".

btw, I'm not being super sensitive or whatever, just curious as to what other people think.

Interesting question. Personally, I find the term Jew fine as long as it is not meant in a derogatory sense. However, how often do you hear it not used in a derogatory sense except in the title of this thread? Usually I hear something like, "Oh, you're Jewish?" not, "Oh, you're a Jew?" Mainly because as you mentioned, "Jew" has taken on a racist connotation and it can be hard to tell whether someone is racist or not when asking a question as the one I mentioned. So they play it safe and stick to Jewish. (Yes, I'm Jewish)

Also, in response to the main point of this thread, it was something I was thinking about two nights ago. One one hand, we're a severe population, religious, and cultural minority comprising only 2.5% of the population. On the other hand, I am seeing minority referred to politically in the first post, in which case, Jewish people are and are also not a political minority. Jewish people are TYPICALLY more liberal as the stereotype goes (and it is a bit true, not completely though and I really dislike hearing it) however, others are conservative. For the most part though, Jews are simply part of the white majority, politically speaking, some on one side, slightly more on the other. Interestingly enough, there are 10 Jewish Senators, 10%, or 4x the percent of the overall Jewish population, I always find that to be an interesting little fact.