Are Japan and China edging closer to war?

[ShintaiDK]

The Chinese are smart enough not to let this issue tip over into a real conflict since it would never turn out to their advantage. There are only ways to loose here. That's won't stop them from leveraging it to maintain/increase regional influence.

Failing all else the US has been attached at the hip strategically with Japan since the end of WWII and it is no secret. We (and other western countries) supply the JSDF with top of the line military equipment in addition to their own quite capable domestic arms industry. Any major conflict would only serve to embarrass the Chinese as militarily impotent beyond their land borders.

Oh yes, we are already stuck fighting small backwards countries with camelriders. And you think we would easily defeat a 1.35 billion people well running country? Hah.

There can only be losers, all sides.

Wars belong to the past.

 

[Zeze]

I don't make insignificant bets. If you want to gamble, go big. As for this conflict, I have already spelled out how China's governance works so there is a chance for serious miscalculations. Japan may not want conflict with China but they won't back down from a fight. The situation with north and south Korea is different. In that case, the North Koreans KNEW that S. Korea wasn't going to do anything. Why? Because their industrial hub and 20% of their population is like 50km from the DMZ. They wouldn't dare to respond in kind. And they didn't. The risk was not worth it for the S. Koreans because they had so much to lose. As for the North, they had complete control of their military. The same cannot be said of China and all the different governments that are at play (on the Chinese side) in this dispute. China has not manhandled Japan like they have other nations in dispute with China. One reason is because no one organ wants to take that big a risk. But they are probing to see how far they can take this.

So... nobody agrees with you.

I take it you're ducking my bet?

 

[randomrogue]

Shintaidk what do you think they should do? How many apologies are necessary? There aren't many people from the WWII days alive today and if they were they were just little kids and had nothing to do with any of this.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Shintaidk what do you think they should do? How many apologies are necessary? There aren't many people from the WWII days alive today and if they were they were just little kids and had nothing to do with any of this.

If you read the link I gave. You will notice that unlike Germany. Japan aint really taking a distance towards their warcrimes. This is what South Korea and China is unhappy about.

Japan only apologies on a political level. They still tell a different story in schoolbooks and so on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_anti-Japanese_demonstrations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Society_for_History_Textbook_Reform

 

[K1052]

Oh yes, we are already stuck fighting small backwards countries with camelriders. And you think we would easily defeat a 1.35 billion people well running country? Hah.

There can only be losers, all sides.

Wars belong to the past.

You're confusing a war with an occupation and what the goals of any possible conflict would be. Japan/US/SK has neither the means nor interest to occupy China. We most certainly do have the means to neutralize their already limited power projection and inflict enormous damage on their air and sea forces.

 

[randomrogue]

If you read the link I gave. You will notice that unlike Germany. Japan aint really taking a distance towards their warcrimes. This is what South Korea and China is unhappy about.

Japan only apologies on a political level.

Yeah I'm not really sure about any of that. I guess I'll just defer to you on that but the thing I'd ask is whether it's really controversial stuff they want excluded or just the sheer brutality of it that they're trying to wash under the rug. Some of what I read there seems a bit petty on both sides since it's just a semantics argument. Advanced into and invaded? What's the difference? I suppose it's like the Palestinians though with their insitance on the word occupied.

 

[ShintaiDK]

You're confusing a war with an occupation and what the goals of any possible conflict would be. Japan/US/SK has neither the means nor interest to occupy China. We most certainly do have the means to neutralize their already limited power projection and inflict enormous damage on their air and sea forces.

You most certainly wouldnt.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Yeah I'm not really sure about any of that. I guess I'll just defer to you on that but the thing I'd ask is whether it's really controversial stuff they want excluded or just the sheer brutality of it that they're trying to wash under the rug. Some of what I read there seems a bit petty on both sides since it's just a semantics argument. Advanced into and invaded? What's the difference? I suppose it's like the Palestinians though with their insitance on the word occupied.

😵

 

[EagleKeeper]

Formal war no.

A small warship lobbing shells at other ships; yes it could easily happen.

China will continue to press against Japan to determine what the tolerance is.

That tolerance will be when Japan pushes bck with more than words.

 

[Slew Foot]

lol. Absolutely nothing will come of this.

 

[Whiskey16]

In terms of Canada vs Denmark. There is both troops and warships in a big pissing contest.

Its people like you who seeks the drama and cant understand politics.

Yes, people "like you" who are sourly out of date upon comprehending the politics of an issue and contemptuously perpetuate the tossing up of histrionics.....

For nearly a year the current reality remains far more tame, conciliatory, and diplomatic than your incorrect and bombastic slant:

Canada and Denmark appear close to agreement in their festering territorial dispute over Hans Island, with an amicable plan for both countries to split ownership of the tiny, barren rock in the Arctic being put forward.

A plan to divide the island — a 1.3 square kilometre rock between Canada’s Ellesmere Island and Greenland, a self-governing territory under the Danish crown — through the middle would give Canada a second foreign land border and settle a spat that captured international attention as much for its absurdity as its potential seriousness.

The position taken by bi-national negotiators is to connect the 1.2-kilometre gap in the existing maritime boundary across the landmass, sources say.

We can all hope that both Japan and China may be equally as mature.

 

[Zeze]

Yes, people "like you" who are sourly out of date upon comprehending the politics of an issue and contemptuously perpetuate the tossing up of histrionics.....

The current reality is far more tame, conciliatory, and diplomatic than your version:

We can all hope that both Japan and China may be equally as mature.

Uh, he was agreeing with you, and you are him.

You don't have to be 'mature' to know how stupid going to war is. You have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

They both can act immature as hell, but no one is going to war.

 

[Whiskey16]

Uh, he was agreeing with you, and you are him.

Yes, we are both upon the same page in hopes for a resolution between China and Japan.

The zinger is of his apparent Danish nationalism tarnishing recognition of Canada and Denmark having already made it well past ShintaiDK's outdated characterisation of military events:

In terms of Canada vs Denmark. There is both troops and warships in a big pissing contest.

I corrected him upon that error. My point is that those who erroneously hold onto dated perspectives for current events retain an ease towards potential antagonistic escalation and more easily enable active flare ups.

 

[nehalem256]

Japan needs to learn from Germany.

What are they suppose to learn from Germany?

If you read the link I gave. You will notice that unlike Germany. Japan aint really taking a distance towards their warcrimes. This is what South Korea and China is unhappy about.

Japan only apologies on a political level. They still tell a different story in schoolbooks and so on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_anti-Japanese_demonstrations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Society_for_History_Textbook_Reform

So basically you want Japan to make school children feel bad for crimes committed by their great-grandparents against other people's great-grandparents?

 

[Whiskey16]

So basically you want Japan to make school children feel bad for crimes committed by their great-grandparents against other people's great-grandparents?

Atonement for all parties greatly relies upon Japan enforcing in education and diplomacy that it was a criminal aggressor. A reality. Quite simple.

Due to remnants of pockets for fervent nationalism this has never fully been realised. Their survival and views were long fostered by the occupation of the USA in order to maintain order and direction in post-war Japan.

Beyond straight militarism this goes straight on to avoidance of full recognition to all comfort (raped) woman and other slaves who suffered at the Japanese state. Survivors and suffering direct descendants still remain thereby negating any offered defence provided here that these issues are simply of the past and of no concern to modern Japan.

If Japan wishes to proceed diplomatically in resolving current tensions then it should remove remaining justified antagonisms against its history of violent and expansionist militarism. Japan is retaining a posturing gift to its neighbours to justify an increase in anger toward Japan.

For the island quarrels of Japan with South Korea and China, much of them are tenuous at best for a valid Japanese legal position, and for the most part I side historically with those nations and territories that were once under Japanese occupation.

 

[Dari]

So... nobody agrees with you.

I take it you're ducking my bet?

I'm not interested in a popularity contest, idiot. I think you should stay in ATOT.

 

[Dari]

If you read the link I gave. You will notice that unlike Germany. Japan aint really taking a distance towards their warcrimes. This is what South Korea and China is unhappy about.

Japan only apologies on a political level. They still tell a different story in schoolbooks and so on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_anti-Japanese_demonstrations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Society_for_History_Textbook_Reform

(North and) South Korea have always been vassal states. They are inherently insecure. China is weak but projects an image of strength. They use occupation as if it is something to be proud of. If they don't want apologies, they should not ask for them

 

[Zeze]

I'm not interested in a popularity contest, idiot. I think you should stay in ATOT.

Whoa, name calling.

What is the qualification to stay in P&N- someone like you who throws insults out of disagreement?

 

[Dari]

The Chinese are smart enough not to let this issue tip over into a real conflict since it would never turn out to their advantage. There are only ways to loose here. That's won't stop them from leveraging it to maintain/increase regional influence.

Failing all else the US has been attached at the hip strategically with Japan since the end of WWII and it is no secret. We (and other western countries) supply the JSDF with top of the line military equipment in addition to their own quite capable domestic arms industry. Any major conflict would only serve to embarrass the Chinese as militarily impotent beyond their land borders.

The people at the very top are intelligent enough not to let this go too far, as are those in the foreign ministry. But, both groups have limited influence. The country is simply not normal (in terms of governance) in order for the right people to put this to bed. There are too many opportunities for miscalculations. Once that happens then everyone will have to get into line.

 

[Dari]

Whoa, name calling.

What is the qualification to stay in P&N- someone like you who throws insults out of disagreement?

Stop being so sensitive, child, and either argue what I'm saying on its own instead of waiting to see who is more popular. This isn't grade school. If you enjoy that type of environment then return to ATOT where the discussions are more to your liking.

 

[Oric]

If a country seems to be acting one way in one government body and different in another body, thatis because of diplomacy, (good guy - bad guy) China, iran often use this tactic. Do not make the mistake of thinking that they are not coordinated

 

[Oric]

If the international open seas laws were designed "fair" from start such kind of clashes would not have occured. For example the 200 mile economic zone is ok for the main land but for a island that is slightly larger than a collection of rocks you suddenly get the 200 mile privilige. If there were measure and steps to define different siz economic zones related eith the size of land such kind of skirmishes over open sea rocks would not have happened

 

[Svnla]

If the international open seas laws were designed "fair" from start such kind of clashes would not have occured. For example the 200 mile economic zone is ok for the main land but for a island that is slightly larger than a collection of rocks you suddenly get the 200 mile privilige. If there were measure and steps to define different siz economic zones related eith the size of land such kind of skirmishes over open sea rocks would not have happened

You think China will listen?

Look at this U shape red line, China claims everything inside it as its territories. Blue lines = UN/international standard.

 

[Dari]

If a country seems to be acting one way in one government body and different in another body, thatis because of diplomacy, (good guy - bad guy) China, iran often use this tactic. Do not make the mistake of thinking that they are not coordinated

Are you sure you understand this when it comes to China or are you just espousing theoretical tactics and projecting it onto Chinese behavior? The Chinese foreign ministry can say one thing and another arm of the government does another. Same thing happens in China with their companies. If an SOE (state owned enterprise) does not like a certain regulation, they will either ignore it or bypass the regulatory body and complain directly to their guy higher up. After that, the head of the regulatory body is summoed and summarily dressed down or told to change the directive. Or the regulatory body will just ignore what the SOE does (breaking the directive).

 

[Zeze]

Stop being so sensitive, child, and either argue what I'm saying on its own instead of waiting to see who is more popular. This isn't grade school. If you enjoy that type of environment then return to ATOT where the discussions are more to your liking.

Wow, the ultimate irony. Put your money where your mouth is... or all you're doing is- chest beating.