Are Iraqi's cowards?

[ivwshane]

From the thread I posted above

There's a twisted irony in the fact that we overthrew a secular government under the guise of them being linked to Islamic extremists, when now 10 years later actual Islamic extremists are poised to take over the country because of our actions.

Guess who didn't see that coming!

/s

 

[mrjminer]

Pretty insane that they were ordered to retreat. If that's true, sounds like their problem is massive government corruption.

 

[Binarycow]

it reminds me of the South Vietnamese. Get the hell out of there was the best thing we could do for ourselves.

 

[inf1nity]

All this is the result of Amrican imperialism. If you fuckers had looked elsewhere for your oil instead of bullying small countries that happens to have crude reserves none of this would have happened. Now the whole world will have to deal with terrorism and bombings.

Lets see how long before you get another dead ambassador or another building with a plane flown into it.

 

[justoh]

All this is the result of Amrican imperialism. If you fuckers had looked elsewhere for your oil instead of bullying small countries that happens to have crude reserves none of this would have happened. Now the whole world will have to deal with terrorism and bombings.

Lets see how long before you get another dead ambassador or another building with a plane flown into it.

mad?

 

[silicon]

let the iraqis sort their own crap out.

 

[yllus]

it reminds me of the South Vietnamese. Get the hell out of there was the best thing we could do for ourselves.

The South Vietnamese fought hard as hell for their country. This is something different.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Why should anyone feel obliged to support a government they never asked for? The whole "Iraqi Freedom" bullshit was just that. A kinder, gentler puppetmaster is still a stooge. You weren't wanted.

While I agree with you in general, when the alternative is being forced to live in a radical Sharia state which is as bad (or even worse!) than Afghanistan under the Taliban, I would think you would fight and defend your country if for no other reason, to save your family and friends.

 

[Binarycow]

The South Vietnamese fought hard as hell for their country. This is something different.

I wouldnt say that and believe me I had a lot of stake in that conflict. A good chunk of the upper echelon of South VN gov officials was on US ships, our ships, escaping to Guam. No sir, they didnt stand their ground or anything close to that. These Iraqi soldiers will regret not fighting harder for their freedom one day when they live under the rule of the new regime, just as the South Vietnamese.

 

[master_shake_]

Maybe next time they will leave behind nuclear weapons.

wouldn't that be the definition of irony.

 

[master_shake_]

let the iraqis sort their own crap out.

kind of stupid considering the americans toppled their government and forced democracy down their throats. wouldn't you say.

 

[hal2kilo]

the US spent 10+ yrs and $BILLIONS$ on training Iraq police and military.

they have no problems fighting when US soldiers were also in the fire fight.

but w/o the US, they retreat often.

and now the entire freaking police and military of the 2nd largest city in Iraq runs?!

WTF? cowards? or...?[/QUOTe

I heard a comment by one of the talking heads on the show after Chris Matthews that Mosel is mostly Sunni and their wasn't much loyalty within the ranks of the local police or soldiers for the essentially Shite national government. They put up little to no resistance.

 

[Orignal Earl]

30,000 heavily armed & well equipped Iraqi security forces fled in the face of 800 ISIS fighters. Draw your own conclusions.

800 Iraqis attacked 30,000 heavily armed and well equipped Iraqis
Conclusion?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

They aren't cowards, they simply have nothing to fight for or anything that is worth being killed over.

 

[Subyman]

The ISIS soldiers don't care if they die, they go to heaven and died during a holy war, which is the greatest honor they could have. The Iraqi defense force members die for their leader and shit hole of a house. Pretty easy to see why they run. I probably would too in their case. Hard to know until you are staring down gun fire from fanatics without a clear cause for yourself.

 

[nageov3t]

That many Sunnis would prefer to take their chances under a militant group so violent it was thrown out of Al Qaeda sharply illustrates how difficult it will be for the Iraqi government to reassert control. Any aggressive effort by Baghdad to retake the city could reinforce the Iraqi Army’s reputation as an occupying force, rather than a guarantor of security.

“Maliki wants to end the Sunnis,” said Ahmed Hussain, a police officer in Mosul who abandoned his post after seeing the army leave. “Can you tell me how many Shiites are arrested on terror charges? Almost all those in prison are Sunnis. He is targeting us. I want to go back to Mosul, but we are afraid we’ll see another Falluja.”

Each security sweep that rounds up innocent Sunni men in the name of fighting terrorism has deepened resentment in the Sunni population toward the government, especially the Shiite-dominated army.

“They are not the Iraqi Army; they are the militia of Maliki,” said Abu Mohammed, 49.

The events over the last several days in Mosul — which is majority Sunni, although it has a sizable population of Kurds and some Shiites, too — highlight what critics have said for years: that Sunnis see the army not as a national force but as the protector of the Shiite population.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/13/w...-militant-group-swarmed-the-city.html?hp&_r=0

 

[Zebo]

Many are. They were in for the money. Paid bribes to get the job. Not warriors who rose through ranks. Fighting hard core Chechens who are used to fighting first world soldiers like Russians is a little different than policing a bunch of women and children and taking bribes. Obviously the Iraqis in ISIS are not.

You have to want to fight for something. This is why our military indoctrinates "freedom" and Constitution meme into our soldiers all the time. Israel the imminent peril of the Jewish race is indoctrinated. The various brigades in Iraq the heavy religiosity is indoctrinated. The whole concept of "iraq" in a tribal country like Iraq is as nebulous to them as quantum mechanics and nothing to fight for. Once ISIS runs into some of the Shi'a brigades cowardice will end.

I dont see Baghdad or any of southern Iraq being taken for this reason.

 

[alzan]

They dont really want to be free. If you are not willing to fight and die for freedom, then you dont deserve it. Iraq was a fools errand. When Congress voted to approve the war in Iraq, I sat in my kitchen and I told my wife that as soon as our troops get involved over there that the terrorists will climb out of the woodwork just like cock roaches. Not one more dollar or drop of American Blood should be spilled over there. Bush and his kindler gentler war has been a total failure. The worst part is the idiots like McCain and even a lot of Democrats voted for the war. I think we should round up everyone that voted for this war and hang the lot of them as traitors.

The Iraq war was voted for based on misinformation and disinformation, so while you're busy rounding up those who voted for it you should round up those who promulgated and propagated the lies.

 

[VRAMdemon]

It seems that whenever oppressive tyrants like Hussein and Milošević are removed from power, all hell breaks loose. Tribes and sub-cultures were at each others' throats before oppressive powers took over and kept them from fighting. Now they're free to fight each other again and national stability crumbles.

Iraq is a lot like Yugoslavia: A multinational state cobbled together out of former Ottoman provinces after WWI, with a lot of unresolved ethnic and religious hatreds that only a strongman government could hold down. When the lid was ripped off, the pot boiled over.

I seriously doubt the US is up for more adventurism in the Middle East. The military industrial complex may be keen to go back but no one else is and I cannot see how they make the case this time around.

 

[ultimatebob]

Heh... I wonder if the Bush administration ever bothered to consider WHY Saddam Hussein was such a brutal dictator before invading his country.

Considering that the country is filled with religious and ethnic factions that hate each other's guts, it kind of takes an iron fist to keep them from killing each other. These pansies that we left in charge of the country obviously aren't up to the task.

Maybe we should find a new dictator to put in charge... this whole Democracy thing isn't working out too well for the Iraqis

 

[Zebo]

The South Vietnamese fought hard as hell for their country. This is something different.

You guys don't understand Islam, the Muslims are NOTHING similar with other religion for the pious.

For the muslim country is a distant 4th in relevance, Islamic Shariah is #1. Clan #2. Family #3.

With or without America the Sunni and Shi'a will kill each other and those not quite Muslim enough.

Islam is NOT only a religion it is a Political, Economic, legal and Social Orientation, TOTAL way of life for the Muslim. They will Fight for islamic shariah at all cost with no cowardice.

 

[Zebo]

It seems that whenever oppressive tyrants like Hussein and Milošević are removed from power, all hell breaks loose. Tribes and sub-cultures were at each others' throats before oppressive powers took over and kept them from fighting. Now they're free to fight each other again and national stability crumbles.

Iraq is a lot like Yugoslavia: A multinational state cobbled together out of former Ottoman provinces after WWI, with a lot of unresolved ethnic and religious hatreds that only a strongman government could hold down. When the lid was ripped off, the pot boiled over.

I seriously doubt the US is up for more adventurism in the Middle East. The military industrial complex may be keen to go back but no one else is and I cannot see how they make the case this time around.

What about Libya we destroyed even after lessons of Iraq? Naw we'll be back. Sooner than later. Same war mongers are still in power and talking heads on media not discredited. Not to mention our whole electoral system which elects and rules via Fortune 500 dictates will perpetrate wars forever. Wars are extremely profitable for them.

Hell if you don't die it's a hell of a jobs program too for our youth as well.

US is in business and social construct of warfare. Not going away anytime soon.

As far as what will set it off? We killed a lot of people. Those people have families who may want revenge. Then there is always the regime change angle or "humanitarian" reasons. And they still have war at home with so-called domestic terrorists and radical Muslim in your mist to deal with. They have a Rolodex of good excuses to continue perpetual warfare.

 

[hal2kilo]

What about Libya we destroyed even after lessons of Iraq? Naw we'll be back. Sooner than later. Same war mongers are still in power and talking heads on media not discredited. Not to mention our whole electoral system which elects and rules via Fortune 500 dictates will perpetrate wars forever. Wars are extremely profitable for them.

Hell if you don't die it's a hell of a jobs program too for our youth as well.

US is in business and social construct of warfare. Not going anyway anytime soon.

Speaking of talking heads not discredited, a Mr. William Kristol who has never been right about a fucking thing in the middle east still get paid to pontificate on the subject.

 

[Orignal Earl]

.

With or without America the Sunni and Shi'a will kill each other and those not quite Muslim enough.

Over the years, Sunni–Shia relations have been marked by both cooperation and conflict. Sectarian violence persists to this day from Pakistan to Yemen and is a major element of friction throughout the Middle East.[5][6] Tensions between communities have intensified during power struggles, such as the Bahraini uprising, the Iraq War, and most recently the Syrian Civil War

Iraq-

Some of the worst sectarian strife ever has occurred after the start of the Iraq War, steadily building up to present

Egypt-

Almost all of Egypt's Muslims are Sunni,[102] but the Syrian Civil War has brought on an increase in anti-Shia rhetoric,[103] and what Human Rights Watch states is "anti-Shia hate speech by Salafis"

Pakistan-

Until recently Shia–Sunni relations have been cordial, and majority of people of both sects participated in the creation the state of Pakistan in 1940s

Lebanon-

Though sectarian tensions in Lebanon were at their height during the Lebanese Civil War, the Shia–Sunni relations were not the main conflict of the war.

United States-

In late 2006 or early 2007, in what journalist Seymour Hersh called The Redirection, the United States changed its policy in the Muslim world, shifting its support from the Shia to the Sunni, with the goal of "containing" Iran and as a by-product bolstering Sunni extremist groups


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia–Sunni_relations

What was your story again?
How did you become an expert on Islam?

 

[Zebo]

Speaking of talking heads not discredited, a Mr. William Kristol who has never been right about a fucking thing in the middle east still get paid to pontificate on the subject.

Most of them are wrong and media cheer-leads. I haven't decided if its some grad conspiracy as in CIA staffs newsrooms or it just sells. Simple economics. Regardless right ppl like General Odems, Brent Scrwcrofts, and Scott ridders of the world are not given air/print time. Heck they even bury our own intelligence estimates from our own intel agencies so I guess it's not some conspiracy.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/25/AR2007052501380.html

Maybe its just human nature to love war.