Are Intel getting Worried? - 9900KS

[happy medium]

Makes me wonder if we'll ever see 10c Comet Lake. Also, why would it take so long to release the 9900KS? Binning?

What does the 10 core Comet lake on a new motherboard have to do with the last 8 core chip on 1151? 9900ks is a chip for enthusiast/overclockers.

 

[happy medium]

What does the 10 core Comet lake on a new motherboard have to do with the last 8 core chip on 1151?

Ooooops.

 

[mopardude87]

The thing is, it will still be the gaming king, crazy ha?

I used to be so excited about these chips but the move to 4k really has been a eye opener for me. I got this 8700 non k and its miles away from being a bottleneck on prob any current or next gen gpu. I think the 144hz chasers may honestly care just how much better this 9900ks may be? I hear people talking about 2k bottlenecks but i doubt the 9900k or potential 9900ks owners are going to be sitting at 1080p where a bottleneck may be if like they have a 2080ti. Maybe even a safer bet a 9900k owner is more prone to a 4k/2080ti set up where there isn't bottlenecks from the cpu anyways?

Not sure if i am going to miss which cpu will deliver a extra frame or two or which gpu becomes a bottleneck before a cpu. Now i simply worry about when that next gpu is coming out. Used to find myself upgrading a platform alongside the gpu. Not gonna miss that for a minute.

 

[deustroop]

How many volts does it require to achieve 5ghz boost? I missed that part? 1.4?

I run the 9900K and this discussion is interesting. The readings I get for full (100% ) load on 8 cores are as follows.
vCore 1.341v
Power 168w
Clocks ( all cores) 5015 MHz
CPU temp 84c

Since this is the same chip as the newly announced one ,I conclude the new chip is an o/c version, like mine, so no further Hz are possible at any power.

 

[Markfw]

I run the 9900K and this discussion is interesting. The readings I get for full (100% ) load on 8 cores are as follows.
vCore 1.341v
Power 168w
Clocks ( all cores) 5015 MHz
CPU temp 84c

Since this is the same chip as the newly announced one ,I conclude the new chip is an o/c version, like mine, so no further Hz are possible at any power.

What is your cooling solution ?

 

[deustroop]

Noctua NH D15s.

 

[deustroop]

I suppose the airy case I use doesn't hurt either, a Thermaltake Core V71 stripped of most of the HD cages . You could hide in there for a week !

 

[happy medium]

I run the 9900K and this discussion is interesting. The readings I get for full (100% ) load on 8 cores are as follows.
vCore 1.341v
Power 168w
Clocks ( all cores) 5015 MHz
CPU temp 84c

Since this is the same chip as the newly announced one ,I conclude the new chip is an o/c version, like mine, so no further Hz are possible at any power.

would you consider your chip a golden sample?
I believe the 9900ks will be a different stepping and higher binned.
If I grab one I'll be going for 1.3 volts at 160 watts, 5.3ghz @ 80c.

 

[lobz]

would you consider your chip a golden sample?
I believe the 9900ks will be a different stepping and higher binned.
If I grab one I'll be going for 1.3 volts at 160 watts, 5.3ghz @ 80c.

Reading through your comments in the 3 actual CPU threads (forum threads, haha ) in the last couple of days, I'm still not completely convinced that you are being serious and not running an elaborate joke

 

[scannall]

would you consider your chip a golden sample?
I believe the 9900ks will be a different stepping and higher binned.
If I grab one I'll be going for 1.3 volts at 160 watts, 5.3ghz @ 80c.

Is that with, or without a unicorn?

 

[mopardude87]

would you consider your chip a golden sample?
I believe the 9900ks will be a different stepping and higher binned.
If I grab one I'll be going for 1.3 volts at 160 watts, 5.3ghz @ 80c.

Part of me seriously wants to believe this then the other part is just like nope.At 5ghz i am more inclined to believe those numbers. Launching so late in the year it better be worth it. Most 9900k owners are prob already dedicated enough to reach 5ghz and don't need a premium binned chip to get there.If this thing just happened to be binned it MAY be worth considering if and when i may need 16 threads.

Its gonna be like the C2D E8400/Q6600 debates all over when it debuts cause the 3900x will prob be cheaper. 16 threads half a second away from nuclear annihilation or 24 threads you could very likely toss into a fairly quiet build. Its gonna be a VERY interesting outcome i think. I would love to believe Intel could perhaps discontinue the 9900k and replace it with the KS at the same or cheaper price then the 3900x price but i think more people will believe in the flying spaghetti monster first.

 

[TheELF]

16 threads half a second away from nuclear annihilation or 24 threads you could very likely toss into a fairly quiet build. Its gonna be a VERY interesting outcome i think. I would love to believe Intel could perhaps discontinue the 9900k and replace it with the KS at the same or cheaper price then the 3900x price but i think more people will believe in the flying spaghetti monster first.

Just because most sites benched the 9900k at full tilt without raining in the TDP power settings doesn't mean it has to run like that.
Locked at 95w TDP the 9900k burns less power than the 2700x in handbrake and blender while getting the same results
while in gaming you could add 15% to the 2700x and it is still behind the 95w TDP 9900k (odyssey/hitman/PC2/sotr) .
https://www.techspot.com/review/1744-core-i9-9900k-round-two/

Obviously the 12core numbers are going to be different but how great are the chances that 50% more cores are going to hit the same clocks at the same TDP?

 

[coercitiv]

would you consider your chip a golden sample?
I believe the 9900ks will be a different stepping and higher binned.
If I grab one I'll be going for 1.3 volts at 160 watts, 5.3ghz @ 80c.

Can't wait to see your overclocking results! When are you buying one? What board will you be using?

How do you expect it to compare to the overclocked system you're currently running?

 

[Topweasel]

would you consider your chip a golden sample?
I believe the 9900ks will be a different stepping and higher binned.
If I grab one I'll be going for 1.3 volts at 160 watts, 5.3ghz @ 80c.

Both can be true and so could his. I wouldn't assume 5 years into the process that Intel has a whole lot of tricks left in the bag. They can be better binned chips but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a good sample of the 9900k (and honestly compared to the power usage of a stock 9900k with 210wPL2, he is getting like 200MHz out of a very similar power usage with the all core turbo). That doesn't mean the 9900KS doesn't have higher clocking samples as generality either because higher bin. As for the stepping, it could be anything, and there is a good chance that it improves uniformity in chip production allowing Intel to have more usable samples. But in the end it's pretty clear that a wall is starting to form on this process and I would really expect much better than his chip or pretty much the 9900ks in general. The real evidence is in the single core clock. If Intel was really willing to drive up the power usage and get these all qualified at 5GHz all core clocks, then if there was headroom, they would increase the single core turbo's. Since they didn't then at best the new stepping probably was about power management (not going super crazy power usage wise).

Just keep in mind that while new steppings have allowed for higher overclocks in some cases. That generally its about improvements in manufacturing and those improvements don't always lead to faster overclocks.

 

[Shmee]

5GHz is pretty fast, but I have a feeling that it may be close to the limit, similar to the 2700X. I suspect the 8 core Ryzen 3k chips will OC well, but time will tell. It really comes down to what OCs higher, the 9900KS, or the new Ryzen chips? If both can be OCed to 5+ GHz, then it will be a very interesting fight.

 

[maddie]

If a chip boost to 5ghz all cores, can it still be overclocked? I'm guessing yes. Sounds like a chip for real computer enthusiast, there are a few left on this forum. It should definitely separate the enthusiast from the cheerleaders.
I may buy one just to overclock with.

We tend to have intelligent discussions here. Let us try to stay this way and not warp meanings to manipulate.

Enthusiast:
1] a person who is filled with enthusiasm for some principle, pursuit, etc.; a person of ardent zeal
2] one who is ardently attached to a cause, object, or pursuit

Trying to convince me that I'm not an enthusiast because I have a lower budget is very disingenuous.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Filling the ever widening gap between 14nm and whatever comes next on desktop?

Yeah but I think it confirms it won't be in 2019 now. Looking more like a short lived product like the 8086K.

That's kind of sad. I mean honestly, I was not looking forward to Comet Lake 10c since it would come with some ugly compromises, but at the same time, Intel should be trying to launch that chip this year and then Rocket Lake next year, on the desktop. Too bad Rocket Lake hasn't actually shown up on any desktop roadmaps yet! But if Intel wants to "go agile" and pull another 8700k or 9900k-like stopgap move, the one to pull is 14nm++(+?) Rocket Lake.

The thing is, it will still be the gaming king, crazy ha?

Probably not. Realistically speaking, you are not going to get a 9900KS running faster than 5 GHz unless you want to push past 210W. Maybe in a gaming workload, it can keep power usage kind of low, but that will more-likely-than-not be in GPU-limited scenarios.

In any case, the 3800x is supposed to be able to match the 9900k (PL1, 160-165W) in everything, including games, and do this with its stock TDP limitation of 105W. Put the 3800x in the same power envelope and the 9900KS will lose.

I find it highly unlikely that anyone will be able to run a 9900KS @ 5.3 GHz with only ~170W of power consumption.

What does the 10 core Comet lake on a new motherboard have to do with the last 8 core chip on 1151? 9900ks is a chip for enthusiast/overclockers.

10c Comet Lake is/was supposed to be a chip for enthusiasts/overclockers. It was going to be Intel's "Zen2 killer" according to some bombastic Forbes article released months ago. Hmm, let' see if I can find it. Oh, here it is!:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/antony...zen-zen-2-killer-in-development/#145b86ce3c43

Anyway Comet Lake would have been maybe 10c/20t @ 5 GHz of 14nm madness. But instead we get some overbinned 9900K? Okay.

 

[happy medium]

Can't wait to see your overclocking results! When are you buying one? What board will you be using?

How do you expect it to compare to the overclocked system you're currently running?

Compare? I was gonna buy 2 systems ,a Ryzen 3800x and a 9900ks. Overclock both systems ,if possible.

redacted



Mod callouts are not allowed.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[Atari2600]

Wonder what KS stands for, would it mean the Kool-aid Special?

 

[mopardude87]

Just because most sites benched the 9900k at full tilt without raining in the TDP power settings doesn't mean it has to run like that.
Locked at 95w TDP the 9900k burns less power than the 2700x in handbrake and blender while getting the same results
while in gaming you could add 15% to the 2700x and it is still behind the 95w TDP 9900k (odyssey/hitman/PC2/sotr) .
https://www.techspot.com/review/1744-core-i9-9900k-round-two/

Obviously the 12core numbers are going to be different but how great are the chances that 50% more cores are going to hit the same clocks at the same TDP?

Not sure why anyone in their right mind would artificially lock a k chip to its stated tdp. Full load clocks went from 4.7ghz to 4ghz which i would say is a drastic change. Results from the 8700 to the upcoming 3900x will be very interesting if people locked every chip to its advertised tdp. People like me kind of fussed about how advertised tdp was so wrong at first but at the end of the day a 4.3ghz 8700 certainly is better then what maybe a 3.5ghz or so clock. For testing maybe i could see how low this 8700 clocks to if it sticks to the 65tdp. One could argue some money savings sticking to the stock cooler and less noise if using aftermarket.

Gaming wise oh yeah the more threads you toss on a chip the less a game is gonna use resulting in some very low numbers. BF5 is the only thing i run on a day to day basis on my pc that can run my 8700 into the 60cel or so range. That is even with me leaving the bios completely stock which overvolts the chip just a bit. Temps are also on CM212 which is one of the cheapest aftermarket coolers. BF1/BF5 is the only thing on my entire pc that really pushes past 6 threads with BF4 enjoying at least 5-6 good threads but that it is a title i no longer play. Everything else seriously just seems so idle in comparison.[/QUOTE]

 

[TheGiant]

That's kind of sad. I mean honestly, I was not looking forward to Comet Lake 10c since it would come with some ugly compromises, but at the same time, Intel should be trying to launch that chip this year and then Rocket Lake next year, on the desktop. Too bad Rocket Lake hasn't actually shown up on any desktop roadmaps yet! But if Intel wants to "go agile" and pull another 8700k or 9900k-like stopgap move, the one to pull is 14nm++(+?) Rocket Lake.



Probably not. Realistically speaking, you are not going to get a 9900KS running faster than 5 GHz unless you want to push past 210W. Maybe in a gaming workload, it can keep power usage kind of low, but that will more-likely-than-not be in GPU-limited scenarios.

In any case, the 3800x is supposed to be able to match the 9900k (PL1, 160-165W) in everything, including games, and do this with its stock TDP limitation of 105W. Put the 3800x in the same power envelope and the 9900KS will lose.

I find it highly unlikely that anyone will be able to run a 9900KS @ 5.3 GHz with only ~170W of power consumption.



10c Comet Lake is/was supposed to be a chip for enthusiasts/overclockers. It was going to be Intel's "Zen2 killer" according to some bombastic Forbes article released months ago. Hmm, let' see if I can find it. Oh, here it is!:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/antony...zen-zen-2-killer-in-development/#145b86ce3c43

Anyway Comet Lake would have been maybe 10c/20t @ 5 GHz of 14nm madness. But instead we get some overbinned 9900K? Okay.

I am not that sure about that TDP of 3800X and 3900X, I am waiting to see the clocks, temps (hotspots) etc

the 9900K testing with 200+ W was with fullthrottle AVX2
since r3000 has full flex 256bit units (the heat generators), I am eager to see the same torture test frequency and wattage

we all know overclocking power is about 2 things, voltage and...voltage
if intel manages somehow to pick good 9900K pieces that can make 5GHz with acceptable voltage, I believe that 160W real number

 

[happy medium]

We tend to have intelligent discussions here. Let us try to stay this way and not warp meanings to manipulate.

Enthusiast:
1] a person who is filled with enthusiasm for some principle, pursuit, etc.; a person of ardent zeal
2] one who is ardently attached to a cause, object, or pursuit

Trying to convince me that I'm not an enthusiast because I have a lower budget is very disingenuous.

Correct definition of Enthusiast computing. I never said the word budget.

"Enthusiast computing" refers to a sub-culture of personal computer users who focus on extremely high-end computers. Manufacturers of performance-oriented parts typically include an enthusiast model in their offerings. Enthusiast computers (often referred to as a "box", "build", or "rig" by their owners) commonly feature extravagant cases[1] and high-end components, and are sometimes liquid cooled.

Although high-end computers may be bought retail in the same manner as the common computer, they are frequently assembled by their owners.[citation needed]Enthusiasts assemble their systems to simply enjoy the best images and effects a new PC game has to offer; to design an aesthetically pleasing PC; or even simply to obtain the best possible performance at a variety of tasks."

 

[DrMrLordX]

Wonder what KS stands for, would it mean the Kool-aid Special?

It's in honor of Jim on AdoredTV: it was originally going to be the KyS edition, but they cut out the 'y'

I am not that sure about that TDP of 3800X and 3900X, I am waiting to see the clocks, temps (hotspots) etc

the 9900K testing with 200+ W was with fullthrottle AVX2

Actually, Blender, in PL2 mode. So yes some AVX2 but we're not talking Prime95 here.

we all know overclocking power is about 2 things, voltage and...voltage

And leakage. Without it, you don't get the highest clockspeeds.

if intel manages somehow to pick good 9900K pieces that can make 5GHz with acceptable voltage, I believe that 160W real number

I don't.

 

[maddie]

Correct definition of Enthusiast computing. I never said the word budget.

"Enthusiast computing" refers to a sub-culture of personal computer users who focus on extremely high-end computers. Manufacturers of performance-oriented parts typically include an enthusiast model in their offerings. Enthusiast computers (often referred to as a "box", "build", or "rig" by their owners) commonly feature extravagant cases[1] and high-end components, and are sometimes liquid cooled.

Although high-end computers may be bought retail in the same manner as the common computer, they are frequently assembled by their owners.[citation needed]Enthusiasts assemble their systems to simply enjoy the best images and effects a new PC game has to offer; to design an aesthetically pleasing PC; or even simply to obtain the best possible performance at a variety of tasks."

Well I'm fairly certain I'm old enough to say my definition precedes yours. A modern redefinition of a word is worthless in my opinion, especially when done for commercial reasons.. You want to classify the extreme high end as a distinct group? Then create a new word, don't subvert or hijack an established meaning.

Modern marketing tries so hard to make us accept the term enthusiast as equivalent to spending a lot of money. Repeating this line here among real enthusiasts of many living standards is disingenuous as I've previously stated. All here, or at least the great majority, are enthusiasts. We enjoy the various aspects of computing and spend a fair amount of time in doing so.

Anytime I see this statement about real enthusiasts spend the most money, my "being manipulated" 6th sense starts screaming. By the way, you can ALWAYS find someone to say exactly what you want. Interview 100 people to get the 1 answer you needed.

 

[Markfw]

Well I'm fairly certain I'm old enough to say my definition precedes yours. A modern redefinition of a word is worthless in my opinion, especially when done for commercial reasons.. You want to classify the extreme high end as a distinct group? Then create a new word, don't subvert or hijack an established meaning.

Modern marketing tries so hard to make us accept the term enthusiast as equivalent to spending a lot of money. Repeating this line here among real enthusiasts of many living standards is disingenuous as I've previously stated. All here, or at least the great majority, are enthusiasts. We enjoy the various aspects of computing and spend a fair amount of time in doing so.

Anytime I see this statement about real enthusiasts spend the most money, my "being manipulated" 6th sense starts screaming. By the way, you can ALWAYS find someone to say exactly what you want. Interview 100 people to get the 1 answer you needed.

I will tell you one enthusiast, that all would agree, and he does not have a lot of money to spend, and thats Virtuallarry. So that makes Happy Medium's definition not good IMO

Edit: we are straying from the topic a little, lets get back to it.