Are immigrants a good or bad influence on your country?

[Martin]

An interesting graph I thought I'd share. Conventional wisdom (on P&N) has it that america loves immigrants, while france hates them.

http://www.economist.com/images/20051203/csu790.gif

the results did suprise me, honestly. But only because I was foolish to take the prevailing 'wisdom' in P&N seriously.

 

[raildogg]

Is education necessary for succeeding? Was Ghandi a peace maker?

Without immigrants, there is no America or our 51st state. But don't just run across the border. I am hoping the armed group in Arizona will be on patrol to catch the invaders. If you want to come to America, come like the Europeans came a hundred years ago. They had to go through a thorough medical checkup before they were admitted here.

I really doubt any of our current immigrants go through that process.

 

[Rainsford]

I don't get it, we're still beating France. I'm not surprised Canada is winning, they love everyone up there and certainly seem to encourage immigrants. And I'm not surprised we aren't impressivly might either, people think immigrants and they get a picture of illegal Mexican immigrants sneaking over the border. They seem to have forgotten that most of us are immigrants, although not of the illegal variety. I don't know about you, but my family hasn't been here all that long, I don't think I have a lot of right to suggest immigrants are bad.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: raildogg
Is the sun necessary for growing crops? Is education necessary for succeeding? Was Ghandi a peace maker?

Without immigrants, there is no America or our 51st state. But don't just run across the border. I am hoping the armed group in Arizona will be on patrol to catch the invaders. If you want to come to America, come like the Europeans came a hundred years ago. They had to go through a thorough medical checkup before they were admitted here.

I really doubt any of our current immigrants go through that process.

You don't think there are ANY legal immigrants who go through the process?

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: raildogg
Is the sun necessary for growing crops? Is education necessary for succeeding? Was Ghandi a peace maker?

Without immigrants, there is no America or our 51st state. But don't just run across the border. I am hoping the armed group in Arizona will be on patrol to catch the invaders. If you want to come to America, come like the Europeans came a hundred years ago. They had to go through a thorough medical checkup before they were admitted here.

I really doubt any of our current immigrants go through that process.

You don't think there are ANY legal immigrants who go through the process?

I said that I really doubt that any of the immigrants coming in now go through a complete medical checkup before they are let in. Its a shame, actually.

 

[Meuge]

I did

 

[imported_Tango]

Makes sense: the US has since quite a long time chosen the multicultural way, while european countries are still usually following assimilation or integration policies. These approaches are much harder to implement, and cause social fractures that will often lead to tensions in both the local and immigrant communities. Of course the cultural and social landscape is different in the US and Europe and explains these different views on the problem, still those numbers are pretty low.

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: raildogg

I said that I really doubt that any of the immigrants coming in now go through a complete medical checkup before they are let in. Its a shame, actually.

That's incorrect. My wife had to get a complete physical when she came to this country for school and again when we applied for her green card.

 

[GoPackGo]

A friend of mine had to go through quite a process to get his green card. 9/11 delayed it by THREE YEARS.

As long as immigrants want to work for a better life, I am all for it.

 

[Powermoloch]

I'm an immigrant...prepare to be invaded ?

 

[OrganizedChaos]

theres no way i could seriously respond to this thread without being labelled a politicly incorrect racist jackass.

 

[Legend]

Depends on the immigration.

The old immigration of America, when people came from overseas to start a new life. They were integrated into our society and brought over many skills and contributed back to this nation, legally.

Then there's illegal immigration when millions hop over the border and consume tax dollars while using roads and other social services, and then take jobs away from American Citizens because employers can hire them for less. This is because the illegals are willing to work for less and that the employer can avoid taxes. Then the American Citizens "don't want the job" because it's suddenly not paying enough. The illegals many times would send the money back to their families south of the border, and slowly (sometimes not) integrate into our society.

Which are we talking about? Of course Canada likes it because they don't get much of the latter. Germany doesn't like it because of massive unemployment. France shouldn't like it as much as they do...

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: raildogg
Is education necessary for succeeding? Was Ghandi a peace maker?

Without immigrants, there is no America or our 51st state. But don't just run across the border. I am hoping the armed group in Arizona will be on patrol to catch the invaders. If you want to come to America, come like the Europeans came a hundred years ago. They had to go through a thorough medical checkup before they were admitted here.

I really doubt any of our current immigrants go through that process.

I bet our legal immigrants do. The people running across our border dont.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: raildogg
Is education necessary for succeeding? Was Ghandi a peace maker?

Without immigrants, there is no America or our 51st state. But don't just run across the border. I am hoping the armed group in Arizona will be on patrol to catch the invaders. If you want to come to America, come like the Europeans came a hundred years ago. They had to go through a thorough medical checkup before they were admitted here.

I really doubt any of our current immigrants go through that process.

I bet our legal immigrants do. The people running across our border dont.

Umm I had to take a medical when dealing with INS to get a permanent residence in the US. That included giving 5 gal of blood because they were lookking for terrorists blood cells or something.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I said that I really doubt that any of the immigrants coming in now go through a complete medical checkup before they are let in. Its a shame, actually.

For those who go through the legal immigration process, the requirements and standards are as stringent, if not more so, then it was for European immigrants of the 19th and early 20th centuries.

The problem now is the influx of illegal immigrants into the country, and our government's inability to secure our borders.

I am the grandson of immigrants...I have no problems with immigration, so long as it is conducted in a controlled and standardized manner...if people want to come here seeking a better life, more power to them...when people come here illegally, and then expect to change America to mirror the crapholes from where they fled, then I have a problem.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I don't get it, we're still beating France.

You'll get it when you realize there is a difference between 78% and 45%, but not much difference between 45% and 43%.

The point on this thread wasn't to inquire about people's attitude towards immigration, but to point out that despite the ego-stroking here, the US is no different from France. Reality checks are in very short supply around here.

 

[Starbuck1975]

The point on this thread wasn't to inquire about people's attitude towards immigration, but to point out that despite the ego-stroking here, the US is no different from France. Reality checks are in very short supply around here.

However, many on this thread often point to the enlightened societies of left leaning Europe, and praise the merits of these nations compared to "fascist" America...interesting that many of these "enlightened" and "socially progressive" societies have xenophobic tendencies equivalent to, or more so, then America.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Martin
An interesting graph I thought I'd share. Conventional wisdom (on P&N) has it that america loves immigrants, while france hates them.

http://www.economist.com/images/20051203/csu790.gif

the results did suprise me, honestly. But only because I was foolish to take the prevailing 'wisdom' in P&N seriously.

America and France are two very different countries. We're much more accepting immigrants to our country as we are in general a country of immigrants. France has consisted of French people for a long ass time, there is no "Melting Pot" of cultures in France.

Technically speaking, there are no "minorites" in France.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Martin
An interesting graph I thought I'd share. Conventional wisdom (on P&N) has it that america loves immigrants, while france hates them.

http://www.economist.com/images/20051203/csu790.gif

the results did suprise me, honestly. But only because I was foolish to take the prevailing 'wisdom' in P&N seriously.

America and France are two very different countries. We're much more accepting immigrants to our country as we are in general a country of immigrants. France has consisted of French people for a long ass time, there is no "Melting Pot" of cultures in France.

Technically speaking, there are no "minorites" in France.

This is exactly what I am talking about. There is a ton of ego stroking and "we are oh so superior" talk around here...and yet reality is clearly very different...

 

[TGS]

Originally posted by: raildogg
Is education necessary for succeeding? Was Ghandi a peace maker?

Without immigrants, there is no America or our 51st state. But don't just run across the border. I am hoping the armed group in Arizona will be on patrol to catch the invaders. If you want to come to America, come like the Europeans came a hundred years ago. They had to go through a thorough medical checkup before they were admitted here.

I really doubt any of our current immigrants go through that process.

I thought you were going to say, like the original settlers. Or conquerers that killed those people, and took the land. I suppose a medical checkup rather than handing out infected blankets works a bit better with the current inhabitants.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Martin
An interesting graph I thought I'd share. Conventional wisdom (on P&N) has it that america loves immigrants, while france hates them.

http://www.economist.com/images/20051203/csu790.gif

the results did suprise me, honestly. But only because I was foolish to take the prevailing 'wisdom' in P&N seriously.

America and France are two very different countries. We're much more accepting immigrants to our country as we are in general a country of immigrants. France has consisted of French people for a long ass time, there is no "Melting Pot" of cultures in France.

Technically speaking, there are no "minorites" in France.

This is exactly what I am talking about. There is a ton of ego stroking and "we are oh so superior" talk around here...and yet reality is clearly very different...

This was exactly the point of my post. The US has a multicultural policy, while most european countries still are trying to use integration or assimilation policies when dealing with immigration. Both europe and the US need immigrants, and need them badly. But of course the history and cultural legacy of the two areas is completely different. The Us is a settlers country, whereas Europe is collection of nation-states with 3 milleniums of history and culture and only in recent times had to deal with immigration and the effect this could have on national identities. Grated, there is no way to avoid the problem, but the different ways you can approach it can make a lot of difference.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: raildogg
Is the sun necessary for growing crops? Is education necessary for succeeding? Was Ghandi a peace maker?

Without immigrants, there is no America or our 51st state. But don't just run across the border. I am hoping the armed group in Arizona will be on patrol to catch the invaders. If you want to come to America, come like the Europeans came a hundred years ago. They had to go through a thorough medical checkup before they were admitted here.

I really doubt any of our current immigrants go through that process.

You don't think there are ANY legal immigrants who go through the process?

I said that I really doubt that any of the immigrants coming in now go through a complete medical checkup before they are let in. Its a shame, actually.

if correcting you is wrong, i dont wanna be right.

 

[maluckey]

Legal Immigrants have a thourough medical check before admission. Certain conditions, diseases, or lack of simple things like vaccinations are deal breakers. The Immigrant must not be at risk to become a public charge due to his medical condition (or any other for that matter). If it is the case, then the petition is denied. If the condition is permanent, so is the denial. If the shortcomings are addressed, the petition can be restarted or resubmitted as may be the case.

 

[judasmachine]

in my country immigrants built the damn place. right now they're harvesting crops to feed it.

 

[CanOWorms]

Those results are from 2002, somewhat recently after 9/11/2001. I'd think that if the same was taken today (and if you differentiate legal vs. illegal immigration), the results would be different. I'd imagine it would be 90% against in France if done today!