Are Heatsinks supposed to move back and forth?

[jodhas]

--- Rodxxx Wxxx <rxx@svc.com> wrote:
> The heatsink is supposed to move, especially if you
> are using silicon
> grease. As long as it does not tilt, there is
> nothing wrong with the
> unit.

As you guys can read from the above email, I've bought 4 GC-88. to try on the 3 Shuttle mini-Barebone Systems.
They are a very very loose fit on the cpu and its clip. Alarmingly loose where when I stand the computer Window'ed face down, you notice that the heatsink will slide a little.
The story gets worse when i open up the case and slightly apply pressure, the heatsink will glide back and forth at will. Something that I've never noticed with
SK-7, SLK-800, Volcanos or even with GC-68's.
Now I complained of this fact and this is the email I got back from the tech representative at SVC.
Now I know that SVC is adored around here. But I think their claim that heatsinks are "supposed to move" to justify the loosefit is totally absurd.
What do you guys think?

 

[chocoruacal]

SVC brand heatsinks Gxx are crap. I have a GC68 and it doesn't clip down tight enough...the comps I tested it on wouldn't even boot with it on. But, I do see posts where people have one that works, so I guess its hit or miss. On ALL the heatsinks I have, you can "twist" them to a degree, but you certainly cannot rock them back and forth or slide them across the CPU

 

[jodhas]

I want to keep the emails that's going back and forth with the "owner of SVC" and postem 'em here.
It seems as if one company starts growing they seem to be forgetting the people that got them there... THE CUSTOMERS!!!

All I've got was the dude's egotistical comments putting customers down. Here is the Email.



From: "Roxxxx " <rxx@svc.com> | This is spam | Add to Address Book
To: "'Josxxx'" <exxxxxxx@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Order Number 45006
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 11:12:48 -0700




Jxxxxxxx,

You are right, I don't know what you are talking about because you
didn't really say anything.

If you feel uncomfotable with the heatsink, I understand. But so far
all you have done is say that ALL GC88s are defective, make threats,
and
be rude and disrespectful. Telling that to someone who has sold 1000s
of examples of that heatsink and installed 100s of examples for
customers and then talking trash is not going to get you anywhere.
Right now, I'll probably waive your restock fee, at least on the three
unopened units, but if you were polite about it, you probably would
have
gotten a full refund, and a discount on your next order.



You talked about the SLK-800(a) having problems and the resultant
introuduction of heatsinks like the SLK-800(u), but that heatsink's
problem is its weight. Its so heavy that even with a three prong clip,
its not secure enough for some applications. Actually the 800(u) was
only introduced to provide S478 compatibility, not for more secure
mounting. We are Thermalright's number one distributor. You don't get
there by not knowing anything about heatsinks. When I started SVC, we
only sold heatsinks. I overclocked 6Mhz 80286s to 8Mhz in 1985, 300As
to 450, PPGA 366s to 550, all the P3s, Thunderbirds, Durons, and now XP
and P4 chips. I don't think you even knew what a heatsink was in 1985.

I tried calling you today, but got no answer. Please give me a call at
3xx.3xx.8xxx so we can discuss a resolution to this problem. That
number is local to you anyway.


It's actually interesting to talk with this guy. Actually I was Oc'ing 300A's and everything ever since...
But anyhow...

SVC has changed...

Oh BTW I guess when I told him that I would discuss the whether the heatsinks were supposed to move or not on these forums he took those as a threat. I just wanted to ask the "Mass" their views on wether the heatsinks would need to be secure or not.
I have not been rude, but very cordial...

 

[amcdonald]

I'd like to see your original emails to him. It sounds like you really set him off.
I just recently had an issue with svc and they were more than apologetic in resolving it.
His response isn't extremely professional, but I'll assume your initial emails were more or less rants.
Heatsinks using the prongs typically will move around with little force.
If it really loose you could try bending the retention clips backwards to add more pressure, depending on the quality of the metal used in the retention clip. I've never used the gc-88. I've seen tons of people that swear by it for a cheap solution.

 

[deerslayer]

I have used upwards of 5 of these "crap" GC-xx heatsinks, and I have never had any issues with them. They do the job, and you get what you pay for. If you're looking for a high quality heatsink you're going to have to spend more than $5. If you're looking for a budget heatsink that will adequately cool, then you found one.

Every heatsink I have ever installed will move if you try to move it.

Why on earth would you situate a computer so that it's upside down anyways? That puts a lot of unneccesary force on the CPU socket.

 

[ElectricLegs]

I've used lots of these babies and they are great! If you left the 4 pads on the cpu they won't slide at all but the little it does slide with them removed won't hurt anything. Some of the Gxx's have a slightly wider slot so the clip doesn't key in it but as long as you didn't install the heatsink on the edge of the cpu socket then all's well. The ones with the narrow slot actually held the heatsink tighter because it didn't touch at the bottom of the milled slot. The pressure is centered off of the clip so where ever the heatsink sits it will be flat on the cpu core. If you want more pressure from the clip then remove it and tweak it at the center bend.

Anyone take basic physics these days?

 

[chocoruacal]

Originally posted by: LyNx01
I have used upwards of 5 of these "crap" GC-xx heatsinks, and I have never had any issues with them. They do the job, and you get what you pay for. If you're looking for a high quality heatsink you're going to have to spend more than $5. If you're looking for a budget heatsink that will adequately cool, then you found one.

No...there IS an issue with the clips that come with it. I see lots of posts from people who have had the exact same problem. Mine's a $5 paper weight.

As for www.svc.com...I think they are hit or miss. The first time I bought from them was a disaster...took them 2 weeks to ship, and they were rude as hell in there emails. That was back when they had a reseller rating of like, 5 though My last two orders went smoothly, but its interesting to see that their attitude hasn't changed much.

 

[jodhas]

I'd like to see your original emails to him. It sounds like you really set him off.

Sure you can read my original mail. Actually I'll post up our whole story
But brace yourself, it's going to be a long post.

My First Email to Tech support

Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:44:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: "xxxxxxx" <exxxxx@yahoo.com> | This is spam | Add to Address Book
Subject: Order Number 45006
To: techsupport@svc.com

I've ordered 4 GC-88 for my mini-Barebone Systems. I
ordered the GC-88 because I was very satisfied with
the GC-68. GC-88 is a nice heatsink and fan. It is a
nice looking fan and it is also small enough to fit
nicely in my Mini-Barebone. SVC also advertises the
GC-88 to be used where "space is an issue"

Everything about this fan I am very pleased about.
However the fit on my motherboard ontop of my CPU is
very loose. Too loose that with a slight push of my
finger the heasink glides over my CPU with ease.

I will be using my mini-Barebone Systems for Mobile
purposes. I am building 4 "identical systems" and I
am not about to jeopardize my investment due to this
problem.

Anyone can tell that the clips that hold down the
heatsinks are not tight enough.

I want to return these heatsinks but I was notified
that i will be charged a 20% restocking fee. This is
ridiculous considering the fact that I've only opened
1 heatsink and the rest are not even touched!!! It is
more absurb because I order from you guys all the time
and it just seems like I'm not being taken care of.

I will also purchase the new heatsink and fan from you
guys and I don't think this is fare way to treat your
loyal and returning customers with 20% restocking fee
for something that hasn't been opened.

I spoke with Nas and he was more sympathetic to my
situation. I hope you guys can review my email, and
if needed be review your GC-88 and get back to me with
a answer that I'm hoping to hear from you guys.

Thank you.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.


The reply from "Owner of SVC"



From: "xxx" <xxx@svc.com> | This is spam | Add to Address Book
To: "xxx" <ejoshkim@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Order Number 45006
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:56:11 -0700




The heatsink is supposed to move, especially if you are using silicon
grease. As long as it does not tilt, there is nothing wrong with the
unit. This is not related to the clip pressure, but instead it has to
do with the legnth of the clip compared to the legnth of the heatsink.
Some heatsinks touch the clip on both sides so they cannot move back
and
fourth. Some heatsinks have clips that are longer than the heatsink
base, allowing around half a centimeter of movement. This is normal.

Best Regards,

xxx xxxxxx

Silicon Valley Compucycle
www.svc.com




My Reply to his Reply


Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 12:52:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: "xxx" <xxx@yahoo.com> | This is spam | Add to Address Book
Subject: RE: Order Number 45006
To: "xxx" <xxx@svc.com>




Thank you for your email.

Heatsink is not supposed to move...
Why do you think manufacturers are making the
"bolt-down" type heatsinks?
Because over time and the orientation(tower cases) the
heatsink does get realigned enough to cause
temperature rises.

The issue has been noted on the earlier slk800 models
and that's why the bolt down models are so popular
right now.

I wish that you guys wouldn't take me for a fool.

I've went through countless number of heatsinks from
the days of pentium mmx systems and i've never had a
case wher the heatshink moved so much like the GC-88
so don't tell me that the Heatsink is "supposed to
move"

I will forward your email and post it in Anandtech,
Fatwallet, Tom's hardware and Overclocers to see what
response I get.

What do you mean it's "supposed to move"

Don't be ridiculous....

Don't treat your returning customers like a fool
please.

Is SVC getting too big???



His Reply II


From: "xxx" <xxx@svc.com> | This is spam | Add to Address Book
To: "xxx" <xxx@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Order Number 45006
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 12:57:28 -0700




It is supposed to have some lateral movement, that's why I mentioned,
as
long as its not tilting, and the pressure is correct, there is no
problem with the heatsink. I'm the owner of SVC. If you want, we can
discuss this over the phone. Just call the office and ask for Rod.

Best Regards,

xxxxxxx

Silicon Valley Compucycle
www.svc.com



My Reply III


Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:29:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: "xxx" <xxx@yahoo.com> | This is spam | Add to Address Book
Subject: RE: Order Number 45006
To: "xxxx" <xxx@svc.com>




xxxx

I don't think you know what i'm talking about...
As much as you consider your self a PC-Enthusiast, so
am I.
I know a "nice" fit over a "loose" fit.
Your vague definition of "some lateral movement" which
was not posted on your first email, is pretty much
lame.

I'm not talking about "some lateral movement", My
GC-68 gives me "some lateral movement." My SK-7 gives
me "some lateral movement." My SLK 800 gives me "some
lateral movement." But I'm happy with them because I
understand it to be the norm. Not so with these
GC-88's It's not just "some lateral movement."

I do not want to engage in useless battle of words,
for you will only realize what I'm talking about if
you were at my house looking at the skeptical eyes of
my friends who have entrusted their Shuttle Barebones
with. You will realize it when You try to clip this
thing on over my precious XP-1800s.

I repeat, battle of useless hypotheticals and
"supposed to move"s is just a wasting of time.

My order was # was 45006, part of that order was a
order of 4 GC-88's, one of it was opened, 3 of them
are untouched. You guys charging 20% on all 4 GC-88
is ridiculous to a point of being, dare i say,
fraudulant. You shouldn't treat your returning and
loyal customers this way.

If you guys want, to you can charge your $12 and take
back these GC-88's. I cordially will stop future
business with you guys as well as my countless referal
services through word of mouth and online tech forums.
In fact, my experience with SVC will be forever noted
and mentioned anytime SVC is mentioned in those
forums.

Thanks and No-Thanks for your help.

Cordially
xxxx



His Reply IV


xxx

You are right, I don't know what you are talking about because you
didn't really say anything.

If you feel uncomfotable with the heatsink, I understand. But so far
all you have done is say that ALL GC88s are defective, make threats,
and
be rude and disrespectful. Telling that to someone who has sold 1000s
of examples of that heatsink and installed 100s of examples for
customers and then talking trash is not going to get you anywhere.
Right now, I'll probably waive your restock fee, at least on the three
unopened units, but if you were polite about it, you probably would
have
gotten a full refund, and a discount on your next order.

In my description, I said some lateral movement, as much as 1/2 CM.
That may be vague, but if so, then what is "nice" and "loose?" I don't
know which one is more lame.

You talked about the SLK-800(a) having problems and the resultant
introuduction of heatsinks like the SLK-800(u), but that heatsink's
problem is its weight. Its so heavy that even with a three prong clip,
its not secure enough for some applications. Actually the 800(u) was
only introduced to provide S478 compatibility, not for more secure
mounting. We are Thermalright's number one distributor. You don't get
there by not knowing anything about heatsinks. When I started SVC, we
only sold heatsinks. I overclocked 6Mhz 80286s to 8Mhz in 1985, 300As
to 450, PPGA 366s to 550, all the P3s, Thunderbirds, Durons, and now XP
and P4 chips. I don't think you even knew what a heatsink was in 1985.

I tried calling you today, but got no answer. Please give me a call at
3xx.3xx.8xxx so we can discuss a resolution to this problem. That
number is local to you anyway.


Best Regards,

xxxxxxxxx

Silicon Valley Compucycle
www.svc.com



See, you made me post a huge one... Have fun reading it.

 

[isaacmacdonald]

actually, it does sound like you set him off. If you did that a little more smoothly, you would have had a much easier time. Things like "have you gotten too big" or "completely ridiculous" are signs of an ANNOYING customer. In the future try to use polite, neutral but firm words. Also, as taught in business 101, you should buffer your complaints with positive segments. Emphasize that you very much like the svc products and look forward to using them as a supplier for your retail computer business.

 

[amcdonald]

First of all, no one likes being intimidated, and no one likes being told they are wrong when they believe they are an expert.
These are good guidelines in writing complaint emails.
Your first email is friendly enough, and his response explains that the heatsink moves around a bit.
Your second email is where you go wrong. You assume for some reason that his reply is implying your lack of knowledge about heatsinks.
Instead of calmly explaining that the movement you are getting is not the "half a centimeter" or so he described, you get offended.
No one implied that you are a fool. No one doubted that you have experience with heatsinks.
Your second email could have been 2 sentences long and polite, but you get an attitude with him (e.g. Don't be ridiculous...., Is SVC getting too big???)

His second reply ignores the lesser points of your previous email, and he offers to talk about it to clear up any confusion.
Keep in mind this is the president of the company asking you to call him directly (and locally). I'd take that as a big gesture. They have tech support people.

Your third email is childish in attitude and it looks like it was hastily written. The threat he referred to is in this email. It was not posting his previous email on a message board. It is this:
(I cordially will stop future business with you guys as well as my countless referal services through word of mouth and online tech forums. In fact, my experience with SVC will be forever noted and mentioned anytime SVC is mentioned in those forums.)

I enjoyed reading his last letter, as I would have made the same points. This guy has offered a lot of patience and even called you, and all you can do is try to flame his business. The problem lies in your communication skills and nowhere else.
Its not often that a threatening and defensive attitude will reap the kind of benefits you were looking for.
His last email says what I assumed... if you had handled yourself with an ounce of professionalism you would have what you want.
Also I find it hard to believe you didn't open the other hsf's. Thats the first thing I would have done if it didn't seat tightly.
Sorry to be so blunt, but I have to stick up for SVC. They have treated me right and word of mouth can kill an online business like his.

 

[Nemmeh]

Yeh, don't want it to seem like I'm flaming you because I know you are kind of angry about the problems you have had with the heatsinks.

Everything that amcdonald said is correct. A piece of advice in dealing with any company in the future, always be overly polite and calm. Never use any threatening comments/bad language or overtones in how you speak on the phone or over an email.

Because once the owner/tech support tries to be nice and talk with you about it and you go off on them and then you are just overly angry at them, they don't want to help you. To an extent they do, but you get a lot more accomplished by being polite.

You need to put yourself in the company's place for a second when you type an email like that. Do you realize how many emails they probably receive from people trying to build systems for the first time, have no idea what they're doing and just ask some off the wall questions that have the most common sense answers.

In the future if you have problems, be very exact in your description of what is happening, tell them everything it is and is not doing. Let them know if you've tried it on a different brand motherboard, what type of grease you're using, if perhaps you received a defective one where perhaps the clips are just bent or misaligned. Let them know. The more exact information they have the quicker they can help you resolve your problem. Giving them more information than they need is a lot better than not enough, it helps clear up any questions they may have. It also cuts down on the time spent doing emails. Just be very descriptive in the future.

By all means, never be rude even if you are overly aggravated. It doesn't do anything but aggravate the situation more.

 

[mechBgon]

I have a GC68 that I use on a 1GHz Duron. It certainly clips down tight enough, and the traction of the AMD cornerpads on the CPU keep it in place.

My insight on the situation is that the manufacturer of the GC-68 makes other similar units too, and they may have goofed and dropped some Pentium3 FCPGA-style clips into them.

UPDATE: very interestingly, I went to Titan's site because I thought it would be of interest to see all the GC-68-style heatsinks they make, and what do you know... they've got a warning up about imitations made by another company. Have a look here :Q

 

[jodhas]

Very Funny... how everyone thinks i was threatening. So if everyone tells me that i was threatening Maybe I was.
Funny how no one likes to point out SVC's rudeness.

Since SVC is a darling around here I guess I should keep my thoughts to myself.

 

[jodhas]

are isaacmacdonald and amcdonald somehow related?

 

[jodhas]

Well I've had problems with them in the past.

They were selling the Vantec Stealth 80mm fans advertising them for at same dB level as the Panaflos. When I got the fans, it was way too loud, 3 of the Panaflos were quieter than the Vantec.

I offered to pay restocking fee on the one that was opened but I've bought 7 of them to replace the fans in my comp.
After grueling phone call's and the owner's "know it all" responses about dB yaddi yadda's and bleh blah's he took in the fans without restocking fee because the owner said "we represent vantec by selling their products"

Anyhow... I should shut up now. If I close my eyes I can see all of you wearing SVC shirts trying to stone me to death

 

[amcdonald]

I'm not a salesman for SVC. I wouldn't care if SVC shut down its doors tomorrow.

You think its funny how everyone thinks you were threatening.
Well I think its odd that you don't realize how progressively unprofessional your emails were.
How can you expect someone to maintain a professional tone when you address them like an angry 14-year-old?
The guy from SVC only became rude after you set the precedent.
In life, you will typically be treated the same way you treat people... and like I said before, no one likes to be intimidated.
Email gives a state of anonymity, where you can act however you want (e.g. obnoxious).
If you really wanted this resolved you could have called him at anytime...
Its even a local call! You could probably even take the HSF by there to show him your situation.
Even after all this he is going to waive your restocking fee.
If I were you, I would take that, and count this whole experience as a lesson in communication.

Edit: no relation is isaacmcdonald

 

[mechBgon]

Ooops, you'll have to excuse me johhas, I misread GC88 as the often-mentioned GC68 I finally noticed the name difference, and went to check out the GC88... haven't seen that model before. Now I understand what you meant about it being compact. These Thermalright SK6+'s are definitely excellent units if you need something else... maybe mend your bridges with SVC and ask for credit towards some of these, with quiet 60mm fans.

 

[amdskip]

Originally posted by: LyNx01
I have used upwards of 5 of these "crap" GC-xx heatsinks, and I have never had any issues with them. They do the job, and you get what you pay for. If you're looking for a high quality heatsink you're going to have to spend more than $5. If you're looking for a budget heatsink that will adequately cool, then you found one.

Every heatsink I have ever installed will move if you try to move it.

Why on earth would you situate a computer so that it's upside down anyways? That puts a lot of unneccesary force on the CPU socket.

Ditto, I've used probably 15 with no problems. I like the GC69 also but that clip can be difficult.

 

[tranceport]

I have to agree with amcdonald. I myself have had an encounter with the owner. It was about them dropping the prices on 3 of my items in my order the day after it got to my house. I asked for the difference in a credit of somesort. I was promptly told no. I argued a bit. And finnally accepted the answer.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: tranceport
I have to agree with amcdonald. I myself have had an encounter with the owner. It was about them dropping the prices on 3 of my items in my order the day after it got to my house. I asked for the difference in a credit of somesort. I was promptly told no. I argued a bit. And finnally accepted the answer.

Huh? When you click "Buy Now" or "Send order", you agree to buy product X for $Y. If it's free 10 seconds later, it doesn't matter. You made an agreement.

 

[huesmann]

Yeah, it's not like they offer a 30-day price guarantee like Best Buy or Circuit City or something.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: jodhas
Well I've had problems with them in the past.

They were selling the Vantec Stealth 80mm fans advertising them for at same dB level as the Panaflos. When I got the fans, it was way too loud, 3 of the Panaflos were quieter than the Vantec.

I offered to pay restocking fee on the one that was opened but I've bought 7 of them to replace the fans in my comp.
After grueling phone call's and the owner's "know it all" responses about dB yaddi yadda's and bleh blah's he took in the fans without restocking fee because the owner said "we represent vantec by selling their products"

Anyhow... I should shut up now. If I close my eyes I can see all of you wearing SVC shirts trying to stone me to death

They may have just been advertising the manufacturer's given specs, and as far as I know, not every manufacturer measures sound output the same way.

And with CSR's - well, I don't know if a place like SVC, who sells mainly to enthusiasts, will automatically assume "customer knows nothing about computers," but it can help sometimes, especially when providing technical support over the phone for something. There are still plenty of posts here asking about proper heatsink installation - sometimes they go on backwards, sometimes there's waaaaaay too much thermal grease applied.
But reading those e-mails, I think Rod was doing his best to give professional responses. I guess when he realized that he wasn't getting sufficient respect, that's when he got a bit irritated. This just looks like a conversation between two people who probably know what they are thinking quite well, but aren't communicating it clearly enough, and both do not like to have other people think them ignorant. (Clear communication with things like this can be tough - the definition of "a little movement" can mean very different things to different people. A little bit to an astronomer could be a few thousand miles; to a microbiologist, it might be a few hundred microns.)

 

[jodhas]

Originally posted by: amcdonald
I'm not a salesman for SVC. I wouldn't care if SVC shut down its doors tomorrow.

You think its funny how everyone thinks you were threatening.
Well I think its odd that you don't realize how progressively unprofessional your emails were.
How can you expect someone to maintain a professional tone when you address them like an angry 14-year-old?
The guy from SVC only became rude after you set the precedent.
In life, you will typically be treated the same way you treat people... and like I said before, no one likes to be intimidated.
Email gives a state of anonymity, where you can act however you want (e.g. obnoxious).
If you really wanted this resolved you could have called him at anytime...
Its even a local call! You could probably even take the HSF by there to show him your situation.
Even after all this he is going to waive your restocking fee.
If I were you, I would take that, and count this whole experience as a lesson in communication.


Edit: no relation is isaacmcdonald

You talk just like him.

Don't give me lessons about life.
Only when I acted like an "angry 14 year old" I got the full refund on those loud Vantec Stealth Fans.
I don't know what line of business you are in,
but you know what? Many times you need to act like the "angry 14 year old" to get things done and get things right.

Don't tell me which method of communication I need to use.
Maybe you use your email to give you state of anonomity but as for me it the BEST method of communication and serves as my identity.
Phone conversations may be fast but with email you can leave everything on record. In case you need it later.

After a couple of emails I did mention that $12 (20% restocking fee) is not something I need to spend my time fighting over. It's not about $12.
Sometimes there is more to life than $12.

The phone number that he gave me is not a local number.

And let me give you lessons
Instead of straight out flaming me, you should have taken the more "professional" approach.
Instead of starting your post with criticism, you could have "identified" with me as an equal customer and maybe pointed out SVC's shortcomings.
So you're making the same "mistake" I made.

Ultimately, even though the customer is rude (unless he's a direct hinderance to your business, using force, and so on...) I believe it is the duty of the business to cater to Complete Customer Satisfaction.
Provided that someone sent an angry email to(and rightfully so due to the product incompatability) SVC. I believe that even then, it is the job of SVC to appease the customer instead of lashing back at the customers about how "you could've gotten full refund if you were nicer"s or "I'm the expert overclocker"s to "i've sold thousands of heatsinks" yaddi yadda..

Oh, My patience was wearing thin because I already went through about 3 phone calls to RMA and CSRs before I got to this guy.

 

[isaacmacdonald]

The similarity between myself and the other mcdonald, is perhaps that we (I'd venture to say, like most people) percieve the obvious reason why your approach yielded the results it did. I don't think you're being flamed. People are simply pointing out how you might better approach a similar situation in the future.

The reason no one's going out of their way to identify with you, or buffer the commentary, is that quite honestly no one wants anything from you. I've sent lots of extremely abbrasive emails once I'm certain that I'm not going to get anything anyway. On very rare occasions, they actually result in an unexpected resolution, but the vast majority of the time they simply serve as a means of venting my anger (usually with circuit city). But anyway, if you actually want something, you don't need to kiss the guys a$$, but you should try to keep wording neutral and free from hyperbole. If you read through the emails, the only person who even quantified the problem in question was the SVC guy.

I don't give a crap about SVC. I'm justing giving you a neutral perspective.

 

[amcdonald]

Don't give me lessons about life. Only when I acted like an "angry 14 year old" I got the full refund on those loud Vantec Stealth Fans. I don't know what line of business you are in, but you know what? Many times you need to act like the "angry 14 year old" to get things done and get things right.

I'm a network admin, and I am far less inclined to help a person with an attitude than a person who is polite.

When it comes to huge companies that can easily ignore you, a well-placed and *well-written* rant can have a positive effect. However, when you can directly talk to the owner of a company, there's no sense in whining and threatening. Use clear and concise language. Remember these are real people you talk to, and *again* no one likes to be intimidated.

And let me give you lessons
Instead of straight out flaming me, you should have taken the more "professional" approach.
Instead of starting your post with criticism, you could have "identified" with me as an equal customer and maybe pointed out SVC's shortcomings.
So you're making the same "mistake" I made.

This helps illustrate a point. As with many of your observations, there is no logic here.
I am not inclined to act professionally towards you, as I expect nothing from you.
The only reason I am posting is to make sure no one wrongly gets the impression that SVC is trying to screw you.
In my last order they sent me a 2.7g ceramique instead of the 22g. I pointed this out without even asking for anything, and they offered to ship a 22g for free. I doubt they can even confirm that they actually sent me only 2.7, but no questions were asked. This is an example of good customer service.