Are DT 1990's worth the money?

[z1ggy]

Looking for a high quality set of cans to replace my aging AD700's. I am looking for something that is crisp and clear, but which also has a solid low end. My #1 gripe with the 700's is their bottom end is pretty lack luster, even with EQ boost.

I've been eyeing a few different headphones, but they each are in different price ranges and seem to be targeting different things. HD650's, X2's and 712 Pro's. All have excellent reviews but each seem to be different from one another. The 1990's just seem to stick out as having some of the best build quality out there, and have been said to have the juicy low end with out getting muddy or being too V shaped. Being so pricey though I am hesitant. With something like shoes I will go on Prime and order a bunch and return the ones that don't fit, but with electronics like this, it's not quite the same.

Oh, and I'll be running off a Schiit stack, so power shouldn't really be an issue.

 

[repoman0]

Never heard the DT 1990, but you could look at the older DT 880 if you don't want to spend that much. I run the 600 ohm version off of the Schiit stack (soon to be sold though since I bought a NAD amp/dac combo to run speakers as well) and I'm always surprised by how good they sound. Very flat sounding (in a good way, no strange peaks) and plenty of low end in my opinion. I've had them for years now and have no desire to replace them. Excellent build quality, supposedly similar to the DT 1990 ... same company after all. They're very comfortable as well; I use them for both gaming and music and never feel like I need to take them off even after a few hours, or more time than I should be sitting at once. I paid ~$150 a while back, they're $200 now.

I listened to a buddy's fancy $500 planar driver headphones recently through a good amp and though I didn't have my DT 880 to compare, I wasn't blown away by the sound, so I was further led to believe that an upgrade isn't warranted.

The DT 1990 is supposedly similar but a step or two up in sound and build, at a correspondingly higher price.

 

[UsandThem]

I agree with the above poster's overall thoughts even though I've never listened to the DT 1990.

I have several higher-end headphones (although not "audiophile" $500+ ones). What I've found out, at least for me, is once you go over $300 for headphones, you really hit the area of diminished returns. At one time I considered buying a top-of-the-line pair, but I just can't hear enough of a difference to justify it. I've tried out a few highly-regarded sets in stores, and maybe it's just because my hearing isn't as good as it once was, but it's just not enough of a difference for me.

I guess if you want to see if they make any difference to you compared to what you have now, just make sure they are returnable from the seller (there is often a restocking fee) or be willing to sell it used at a loss.

 

[z1ggy]

On the 880's - looks like they are semi open. I've only owned either open or closed... so I can't say I'd know what to expect. I'll just say that for this particular application (music/gaming in my own room) I'd much rather have something fully open.

Reasons being :

1) Comfort. My AD700s I can wear for hours and hours. My closed AKG and Sony's start to make my ears sweat and feel gross after about 2 hours, maybe even 1.5 if I'm not in a climate controlled area.

2) Sound Stage. The 700's blow my MDR1A out of the water in terms of sound stage and overall width. The Sony can make the bass drop...but for everything else it's AD700.

3) I have no real reason to keep ambient out. These are in a room where nobody else is. My wife hangs in the living room and doesn't hear the noise I make when I use these.

Lastly, just quick reviews on the 880's show them to be fairly bright, maybe a hair harsh even high up? Sounds like my 700s.... I'm looking to go more warm. Maybe HD650s or X2's would be my best bet. Less $$ than 1990's and plenty available online for good prices.

 

[repoman0]

^ They behave like open. I have no idea what semi-open means, but air goes in and out so no sweaty ears and anyone around can easily hear what you are listening to and vice versa. I have owned two pairs of closed DT 770s, which behave very differently. The 880s are useless for anything but private listening.

I don't think the 880s are harsh, but definitely more sparkly and flat than some other headphones I've used. The ATH-M50 I owned briefly I'd describe as harsh, and even my second pair of DT 770 PRO which sound nothing like my older non-pro ones. I used to think my first pair of 770s was the perfect sound (super bass heavy) but I prefer flat now so music sounds how it was mixed. If you're looking for warmer I agree you should look elsewhere. Just wanted to clarify that the "semi-open" bit is meaningless .. in terms of sound stage, comfort, and ambient blocking they behave like open.

 

[z1ggy]

Gotcha. Yeah I wasn't really sure what that meant.

For now... I'm probably going to start with the DT990's and if I don't like them, I will probably try the X2's... then the HD650's. Basically just going to go in order of ascending price seeing as I have no where to try these on a solid amp'ed set up.

As far as the 990's go... 600ohm vs 250. Is there any reason to get the 600ohm? I'm sure the Magni can handle it just fine but I'd rather not have the knob turned up all the way...On my AD700's I barely need to turn the amp more than a few degrees to get decent dB's out.

 

[repoman0]

With a Magni there won't really be any difference between 250 and 600 ohm sound quality wise since the amp has such a low output impedance as it is, supposedly under 0.3 ohm. Damping factor changes by over a factor of two but it's already so high that total harmonic distortion will be super low (inaudible) with either choice.

I got the 600 ohm version of the DT 880 just because and the Magni 2 has plenty of power to drive them. Volume is usually about half and it goes uncomfortably loud. Never turned it up all the way. Gain switch on the back is set to low too.

 

[z1ggy]

Yeah I knew it wouldn't be an issue I just don't like the thought of having the knob cranked up like that.

I'll probably grab the 990s to start, but... seeing as the HD650's have so much praise and attention I'm not sure if I'll be able to resist buying them, especially if I find a good deal.

Part of me hopes that I love them but also that they aren't so good that I'll be tempted to replace my MDR1A's with something like Fostex or something mega high end closed headphone. When I replaced my 2011 Mazda 3 stock audio system with a really nice Focal set up with a good HU... I could never go back to crappy stock car audio again.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

Just skip the X2s. They're fun I guess but muddy as all hell. I was seriously considering 1990s but ended up talking myself into splurging on Aeon Flow Opens which are quite nice. Are you going to listen to music heavily on these? The 1990s are supposedly one of the best neutral sounding headphones which I like. I think a lot of people find the 880s/990s too sibilant which isn't as big a problem on the 1990s. If you're considering 650s I would read carefully the characteristics between the 600s and 650s and see which one actually suits your tastes. The 650s aren't strictly better. If these are heavily for competitive gaming I think the 712 is the best bet for soundstage, but the rest of these are all more than adequate for gaming.

I think the Amiron is basically a warmer 1990 but I never did figure out the exact difference. Stop pussyfooting around and just get some ZMF Auteurs.

I put Focals in my car too and holy wow. I go sit in my wife's car now which I think even has an upgraded B&O system or some lifestyle brand nonsense and it sounds like -Redacted-.

Profanity is not allowed in the Tech Forums.

Daveybrat
AT Moderator

 

[repoman0]

Yeah I knew it wouldn't be an issue I just don't like the thought of having the knob cranked up like that.

I wouldn't worry about it, it's basically arbitrary. It's a nice amp designed with high impedance headphones in mind. Not sure why they made both 250 and 600 ohm versions in the first place, aside from possible studio use where multiple pairs are plugged into a shared amp or something, in which case the higher input impedance the better. For home use it doesn't matter and your iPhone can't drive either well anyway.

When I replaced my 2011 Mazda 3 stock audio system with a really nice Focal set up with a good HU... I could never go back to crappy stock car audio again.

Never replaced a car audio system, but the -Redacted- stock audio in the 2014 Subaru WRX I owned for three months was probably half the reason I sold it. In its place I bought a $4000 2004 BMW 330xi, which has quite respectable stock audio to my ears. Three months after selling my 03 330i :facepalm:

Profanity is not allowed in the Tech Forums.

Daveybrat
AT Moderator

 

[z1ggy]

Yeah Muddy is not what I want. My cheap AKG that I wear at the gym are muddy. It deep thumping bass to get my beast mode out... but it's horrible quality and soundstage.

To answer the question of use: Right now I don't game much, but once I finish my current endeavors to get my PMP, I will probably resume gaming in some capacity. So as of today, the cans would be purely for music, either FLAC or other high bit rate stuff. I'm not into mixing or analyzing music, I tend to enjoy music for the fun of it. I can appreciate a flat response with minimal spiking but I do want something fun. I know EQ can help somewhat, but I find with my AD700's it still doesn't bring the low end up enough to please me. I think that's partly because I go to concerts all the time with massive speakers thumping double bass hard enough to feel in your chest.

However, I do want something cross functional because I will eventually game again at some point. CSGO, DOTA2 and who knows.. maybe the new Battle Field. Sound stage and directional cues are a must for the FPS.

Edit: oh yeah and the Focals are/were the best speakers I've ever heard. The bass from them was so good, I took my Sub enclosure out. I say were... because I crashed the mazda a few months ago and it ruined the drivers side speaker. RIP :'(

 

[GoodRevrnd]

X2s actually have pretty good soundstage. However, I'll comment that the imaging and evenness of the soundstage trumps the wideness the X2s had. X2s are insanely comfortable. Best headband type, light as hell, would be better if they had Beyer style microfiber pads. They were great at first when the bass makes you go wow, but the longer I had them the more frustrated I was with how muddy and blah they sounded.

Honestly I think you probably want the HD600 for an all arounder (perhaps modded?) and the DT1990 if you want to spend more. It's a headphone, bass isn't going to knock your socks off on any of them. I was super impressed by my AFOs, and people say the 1990s deliver solid clean punch for a neutral open back can, but they're still headphones. Also remember the 1990s come with swappable pads if you want to go a bit warmer.

Any of these will be great for the gaming use you describe.


Using a 10" shallow depth JL sub with my Focals. More than enough oomph. Can't imagine what a W7 sounds like.

 

[z1ggy]

True that, I keep forgetting these are headphones and not monitors or car speakers. I've got a fairly substantial living room system that can rattle windows at full knob twist.

I just feel like though... what are HD600s giving me that AD700's aren't, other than a little different package? Maybe the 600's are a little higher on the dB's under 250Hz or something, but both are probably fairly wide, fairly flat, no? I always though the 650's were the 'warmer' 600's?

 

[UsandThem]

I'm not sure if you've checked out some of the headphones at Massdrop, but they might have some that catch your eye as well.

Their links aren't allowed here, otherwise I would link to a few. Just look at their active drops in the audiophile section.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

I think you might be right and I got them mixed up. 600s are more neutral with more pronounced treble, I thought it was the 650s with the more pronounced treble. Based on some of your comments, would either of them be too veiled for your tastes? I think that's more a 650 issue but is typical of all Senns. I got the impression you'd prefer a more lively headphone.

 

[z1ggy]

If I could describe what I want... I want something that's going to really liven up the low end, as I tend to listen to more rock/metal music. However, I don't want muddy/booming like some ghetto subwoofer in the back of some kids Civic. I still want crisp notes and accuracy, but I want to still "feel" it if that makes sense. The AD700 has a beautiful stage, and feels fairly wide (I guess because I have closed cans that I use a lot, too) but I don't get inspired by the bass drum or the 5 string basses like I do by my Focals. Again... I know it's not apples to apples, but that's the "feeling" I'm after.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

So you should probably get something with a strong midrange. 600/650/1990 still fit, but I wonder if 650s might be too veiled and laid back for metal. 1990s are known to have faster, stronger, punchier bass and be more dynamic overall in comparison. I see Grados recommended a lot for heavy rock/metal rotations, but I don't know too much about them and I'm not sure they'd be a good enough allrounder for you long term. I don't think they're known for much bass performance or soundstage either.

You could always drop $1200 on Focal Clears!

 

[z1ggy]

I just went to the headphone guide on reddit and went to the open back design for the $200-500 range and 650's, X2's and 712 pro's seemed to be fitting.

https://sites.google.com/view/headphoneadvice/open-back-headphones/category-200-500

However, after some youtube surfing, the 1990's sounded fantastic. Since I am into serious hardware... I don't really blink at $600 for audio gear... my Focals were over $600 just by themselves, forget the amp and HU. I reused the sub.

It's not like I WANTTT to blow money here, but with experience, I've come to learn with certain things I'm okay with spending a little more to get exactly what suits me. At least with my car... I was cool spending a bit more because I'm in the darn thing for almost 2 hrs per day.

Went to the $500 and up on the headphone guide, and low and behold I see the 1990's:
https://sites.google.com/view/headphoneadvice/open-back-headphones/category-500

It does seem like that the more $$ you spend and the closer you get to being used for pure mixing... the less desirable V shape or "fun" is. Audeze sound like fun though...

 

[z1ggy]

Actually....I'm now looking into the HD6XX's on massdrop for $199. Figure for $200 if they really are "upgraded 650's" then it's a steal, and probably something I'd like. If I don't... Then I'll splurge for something like Audeze.

 

[DigDog]

I dont want to discuss headphones. So ill keep it to a minimum: DTs have always been known for thunderous bass, both due to their color, and to the cups which are the tightest and most-closed cups ive ever tried.
They are ok for enjoying music - but they are not accurate, compared to modern headsets like AT.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

^^Sounds like DT770

 

[DigDog]

Yes but you gotta understand that
1. Those things were industry standard and
2. They last forever

So obviously it's likely that those are the ones people try. I dont think there is a single studio in London that doesnt have a DT770 somewhere.

The solution is still the same - mix the bass louder.

 

[z1ggy]

Ha Ha I just read reviews about the LCD-3's and now I'm like GO BIG OR GO HOME BABBYYYY!!!

 

[capsulej]

I have several very high end headphones including HD800S, TH900, D7200, Etc, and I find myself listening to the DT 1990s most often. No they aren't as precise as the higher end headphones, but sometimes the clarity in the Summit-Fi headphones can get exhausting and I find myself turning to a more relaxed, neutral headphone like the 1990s or the HD650 for casual, long listening periods.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

Ha Ha I just read reviews about the LCD-3's and now I'm like GO BIG OR GO HOME BABBYYYY!!!

Ya but if you plug $2k cans into a $150 amp all the there might be a forum audiophile mass suicide.