Are democrats really better than conservatives?

[Commodus]

The Republican party has gone so far right that real conservatives now have more in common with Democrats than Republicans. I used to consider myself Republican, I was generally conservative. But Republicans abandoned anything resembling sane conservatism more than a decade ago. During J.W. Bush's Presidency it became obvious that even the few positive conservative planks still on their platform were all talk with no intention of acting on. So, more and more I started to identify as Independent. Then I started listening to the Democrats. I liked some of what some of them had to say. Some of it sounded more like the kind of conservatism I grew up believing in. Over time I began to see the logic behind some of their liberal ideas. I still consider myself an independent, but with the current Republican party I can't see myself voting for anyone other than a Democrat. The insanity that has become the Republican party must be opposed at all costs.

That's pretty much it. It's always funny to hear Republican loyalists screeching about the "far left" Democrats when it's obvious that they have no frame of reference for what the far left is. Many Democrats would actually be considered moderate conservatives in many parts of the world. Really, the Republicans need a jolt to the system, an election loss so resounding that it makes them reject their far-right push and actually get back to moderate, intelligent politics once again.

 

[dank69]

Ah... because legalized gay marriage came about due to physical violence by gays, women got the vote by burning everything down, etc...?

The point is that much can and has been achieved by consistent and rational discourse.

That's great for issues where time doesn't matter. Watch how quickly all of that progress gets undone.

 

[dank69]

That's pretty much it. It's always funny to hear Republican loyalists screeching about the "far left" Democrats when it's obvious that they have no frame of reference for what the far left is. Many Democrats would actually be considered moderate conservatives in many parts of the world. Really, the Republicans need a jolt to the system, an election loss so resounding that it makes them reject their far-right push and actually get back to moderate, intelligent politics once again.

The time for that jolt was 2016. All the cards were in place for a pretty substantial defeat. Unfortunately, "independents" are retarded and as such, extremely vulnerable to agitprop that tells them what they really want to hear.

 

[jmagg]

A job would interfere with the time I spend with your wife.

Someday after arrested adolescence things will be more clear.

 

[theeedude]

Yes, Democrats are better. Look at modern day conservative movement, and tell me they aren't with a straight face. Even aside from the alt-right crazyness. They say that Obamacare is a disaster, spend billions on think tanks, and have 7 years to come up with anything even slightly better than Obamacare. Crickets... Tried supply side economics in Kansas, complete and unambiguous failure. Hey, let's ignore the results and try it nationwide again. Is that an intellectually honest position?

 

[dank69]

Someday after arrested adolescence things will be more clear.

Trump would be proud of you. Instead of apologizing for thinking and posting something stupid, just remain on the attack.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yes, Democrats are better. Look at modern day conservative movement, and tell me they aren't with a straight face. Even aside from the alt-right crazyness. They say that Obamacare is a disaster, spend billions on think tanks, and have 7 years to come up with anything even slightly better than Obamacare. Crickets... Tried supply side economics in Kansas, complete and unambiguous failure. Hey, let's ignore the results and try it nationwide again. Is that an intellectually honest position?

Repub politicians are insincere panderers to a variety of single issue voters- God, guns, gays, abortion, smaller gubmint, Islamic terrarism, xenophobia & probably some I didn't mention.

Funny how it always includes that good ol' trickle down feeling...

All those other issues are just a front for relentless top down class warfare at the behest of right wing billionaires who finance the Repub Party.

 

[Stokely]

Fuck yes. Mind you, I consider myself an Independent these days, was registered (R) in my younger days.

I vote (D) across the board for the very simple reason that they are the lesser evil, and by a large margin.

Yes "both sides are the same"...in some ways. They are both spokes on a big corrupt slimy wheel. I'd vote 3rd party if I truly thought they were better (mostly talking their platforms here) AND if there isn't some perceived proto-fascist looming. Speaking of, I implored my pissed-off Bernie-supporting friends to not vote Johnson because they were pissed at the Democrats--simply because Trump was then given a chance. Sho nuff, here we are.

 

[jmagg]

Trump would be proud of you. Instead of apologizing for thinking and posting something stupid, just remain on the attack.

Trump is bad didn't work for Hilly.

 

[bshole]

Repub politicians are insincere panderers to a variety of single issue voters- God, guns, gays, abortion, smaller gubmint, Islamic terrarism, xenophobia & probably some I didn't mention.

Funny how it always includes that good ol' trickle down feeling...

All those other issues are just a front for relentless top down class warfare at the behest of right wing billionaires who finance the Repub Party.

LoL, doesn't the shit "trickling" down on all of us feel great though?

 

[agent00f]

I don't take offense when you call out people refusal to call a spade a spade but I do take offense to when you call out people who believe their strategy for achieving policies (you agree with) are different than your own. Refusing to acknowledge facts never ends well, so calling people out on that is ok in my book and it should be ok to those that actually seek the truth. However, strategy is a theory and hardly a perfect one at that so when you go after centrist Democrats it really doesn't help your overall cause. To me its akin to those whose preferred policies are mirrored by both Hillary and Bernie but because your preferred candidate didn't get the party's nomination you decide to vote third party. Its illogical and counterproductive.

Calling out blindness and stupidity is a good thing. Attacking those that share similar views but prefer a different strategy? Not really helpful. In those instances it would be more productive to argue your case at to why a certain strategy would be better off.

There's really two distinct layers to that strategy/policy topic which is best illustrated by first consider the role of this forum. A majority of participants think of this place only as a mirror of political society at large, meaning they come to repeat for example all the sanders vs clinton primary rhetoric out there as if it'll somehow be settled here. Then we have some folks who see that implementation of strategies for what they are and perhaps discuss matters at that level. For example the ridiculous infighting between two 90% similar candidates was truly dumb as shit, which was rather why it was encouraged by smarter GOP strategists and likely their russian friends with much experience in these election disrupting matters.

I believe you're aware that I might well prefer one type of discussion to another, but discussions typically require more than one participant so hopeful you et al can help out in that regard going forward.

 

[realibrad]

I don't take offense when you call out people refusal to call a spade a spade but I do take offense to when you call out people who believe their strategy for achieving policies (you agree with) are different than your own. Refusing to acknowledge facts never ends well, so calling people out on that is ok in my book and it should be ok to those that actually seek the truth. However, strategy is a theory and hardly a perfect one at that so when you go after centrist Democrats it really doesn't help your overall cause. To me its akin to those whose preferred policies are mirrored by both Hillary and Bernie but because your preferred candidate didn't get the party's nomination you decide to vote third party. Its illogical and counterproductive.

Calling out blindness and stupidity is a good thing. Attacking those that share similar views but prefer a different strategy? Not really helpful. In those instances it would be more productive to argue your case at to why a certain strategy would be better off.

He has no problem calling out things he disagrees with. What he does not do is explain why he disagrees.

If a person only calls something a spade when others see something different, but he never explains why he thinks its a spade then its not that useful. If he has a different perspective then help others understand it. Instead, many go around yelling spade and expecting people to believe they are right.

Honestly, I think that is what got the Right into the place they are in now. For a long time the Right appealed to feelings and not reason. Instead of people calling for that to end, they just accepted that is how people should be reached and did the same. So instead of explaining how the Right is flawed in their ideas, they simply label them and move on.

Calling out things is the start, but its far from the end.

 

[agent00f]

I submit into evidence, this little gem. How is it relevant? It happened in Seattle of all places.

What I'm saying is not all people vote Democrat because they're open minded. They could be single issue voters or have another pressing concern than what you have come to expect from them. That even in an incredibly lopsided +50% margin location, that beautiful signer can still face such discrimination. You think to yourself "I would never treat her that way" and ask "how could the people of Seattle?" Ergo my answer. Democrats are not ALL so liberal as one might have hoped for.

Maybe you have to specify as the term Democrat is too broad?

If you actually read your link, this is the relevant source: http://buffalonews.com/2017/08/12/little-mermaid-star-rude-awakening-middle-america/
where it claims that there was a bit where the tour started in seattle but substantially intensified as it travel through middle america. Hmm... seems to correlate precisely with the incidence of conservatism. You know, your kin making the world a better place, eg:

LOL
That would require you to have any effect whatsoever on anything beyond the hair on your palms. Better luck next time.

Anger doesn't help. Get a job and share.

But speaking of which, rather than getting mired in the routine to and fro, you do bring up a good point. Are there intelligent conservatives around in significant numbers capable of carrying out an insightful conversation? Guess we'll see about that, too.

Right now: generally, yes.

There are definitely problems with the capital-D Democrats right now, but they believe in some universally important values that many conservatives seem to have abandoned: that intelligence and experience are good things in government. That science matters. That telling the truth (most of the time, anyway) matters. That having basic compassion for those different or less fortunate than yourself matters. That you undermine the principles of democracy by gerrymandering and rigging voter ID laws.

At the moment, the dominant strain of American conservatism is... repugnant, frankly. It pretends that ignorance and inexperience make you an outsider who can change the system. It acts as if acknowledging scientific reality is an egregious sin (this is skewed by the fossil fuel industry bribing Republicans, mind you; they'll say anything for the money). It's perfectly fine that Trump and surrogates tell obvious lies every day, so long as they're not so outrageous that even supporters balk at them. And there's a definite "FYGM" attitude where anyone who isn't a white, straight, upper middle-class Christian man is basically a persona non grata, including at the voting booth.

There is a conservatism that's generally agreeable, even if I don't personally agree with it; it's just being shoved to the margins by the modern Republicans obsessed with greed, power and imposing a racially-tinged theocracy. The David Frums of the world who, even if they're wrong, clearly came to their positions through deep thought and with some kind of compassion for those beyond their own cultural background.

The Republican party has gone so far right that real conservatives now have more in common with Democrats than Republicans. I used to consider myself Republican, I was generally conservative. But Republicans abandoned anything resembling sane conservatism more than a decade ago. During J.W. Bush's Presidency it became obvious that even the few positive conservative planks still on their platform were all talk with no intention of acting on. So, more and more I started to identify as Independent. Then I started listening to the Democrats. I liked some of what some of them had to say. Some of it sounded more like the kind of conservatism I grew up believing in. Over time I began to see the logic behind some of their liberal ideas. I still consider myself an independent, but with the current Republican party I can't see myself voting for anyone other than a Democrat. The insanity that has become the Republican party must be opposed at all costs.

Seems there's going to be consensus that the Democrat party has value simply because it's the sole remaining torchbearer for any semblance of the liberalism embodied in the founding of this nation. But what I was trying to get at is what's left sans that liberalism, for example as a political entity. I supposed it really helps to attract the right crowd to think about where the country should head, for starters.

Yes.

But how so?

 

[BoomerD]

Seems to me, asking if Democrats are better than conservatives is a mis-leading question.

Not all Dems are libruls, not all conservatives are Republican...

It's like asking if Fuji apples are better than Valencia oranges.

I'm a Democrat and am more conservative than many Republicans I've known over the years...and one very good friend of ours is a Republican and is almost as librul as the green-hairs out there protesting. (ALMOST...)

There are liberals, progressives, and conservatives (to one degree or another) in both parties...it's only the extremes in each that get the news stories. (and, IMO, should be tossed out on their ears)

 

[jmagg]

Not all Dems are libruls, not all conservatives are Republican...

.

 

[zinfamous]

LoL, doesn't the shit "trickling" down on all of us feel great though?

just ask roflmouth, et al. Many seem to gleefully bathe in the shit.

 

[Younigue]

If you actually read your link, this is the relevant source: http://buffalonews.com/2017/08/12/little-mermaid-star-rude-awakening-middle-america/
where it claims that there was a bit where the tour started in seattle but substantially intensified as it travel through middle america. Hmm... seems to correlate precisely with the incidence of conservatism. You know, your kin making the world a better place, eg:




But speaking of which, rather than getting mired in the routine to and fro, you do bring up a good point. Are there intelligent conservatives around in significant numbers capable of carrying out an insightful conversation? Guess we'll see about that, too.





Seems there's going to be consensus that the Democrat party has value simply because it's the sole remaining torchbearer for any semblance of the liberalism embodied in the founding of this nation. But what I was trying to get at is what's left sans that liberalism, for example as a political entity. I supposed it really helps to attract the right crowd to think about where the country should head, for starters.



But how so?

Rather than an emotional response I'll put it in the simplest terms based on my experience and comprehension.

Conservatives vs. Progressives. <---- I think those words say it all by their very definitions.

 

[Younigue]

Seems to me, asking if Democrats are better than conservatives is a mis-leading question.

Not all Dems are libruls, not all conservatives are Republican...

It's like asking if Fuji apples are better than Valencia oranges.

I'm a Democrat and am more conservative than many Republicans I've known over the years...and one very good friend of ours is a Republican and is almost as librul as the green-hairs out there protesting. (ALMOST...)

There are liberals, progressives, and conservatives (to one degree or another) in both parties...it's only the extremes in each that get the news stories. (and, IMO, should be tossed out on their ears)

I think the OP knows that. I took the question as a generalized question.

Of course you are correct. One of my closest and dearest friends is a conservative. We spent part of our Saturday with a few other friends doing a hostage/ransom video over his boyfriend's Giant Pumpkin. I certainly don't feel like I'm a better person than him but I do believe my beliefs and ideologies are kinder, more tolerant and open-minded than his.

 

[FerrelGeek]

/Hands you your personalized antifa kit: Molotov cocktail maker, pepper spray, rocks, soda cans filled with cement, baseball bat.

Go get 'em, tiger! Beat the sh*t out of anyone that dares to disagree with you then pat yourself on the back for your moral superiority.

NOTE: I'll be adding the following to my sig -

'If we adopt the ways of the Nazis, doesn't that make us as bad as the Nazis?' - Star Trek, TOS: episode "Patterns of Force"

I don't give a single fuck about being cordial anymore. The time for polite discussion passed long ago, and it never accomplished anything anyway. Polite discussion never helped you come to you senses. You had to arrive there on your own. Too bad it is too fucking late.

The dude just said that because I work, save and do things myself, I'm a conservative. That is flat-out retarded, but typical for "independents," "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" or whatever the fuck they like to call themselves now. They have no idea what it means to be liberal but think they know us so well. One liberal wants her Obamaphone? That means we all do. No liberal works. We are all welfare queens.

 

[Phynaz]

Trump would be proud of you. Instead of apologizing for thinking and posting something stupid, just remain on the attack.

Hi Pot, how've you been?

 

[Jaskalas]

For example the ridiculous infighting between two 90% similar candidates...

• Foreign Policy: Pro War VS Anti War.
• Trade: Pro TPP VS Anti TPP.
• Healthcare: ACA VS Medicare for All.
• Wall Street: Friendly VS Adversarial.
• Thematic Message: Identity VS Economic.

I beg to differ on the differences being immaterial or ridiculous to fight for. There's a big difference between our current system and the universal safety net this country requires. Small tweaks to the status quo won't draw in the hope for change voters. It won't help them enough to provide economic security, leaving them vulnerable to Trumpsters.

When trickle down ends the GOP, those differences will be the gap between the next Conservative Party and Progressives.

Anyways, as you ask "Are Democrats better?" We might want to know which Democrats you're asking for. Blue Dogs? Progressives? The Wall Street backed leadership? My point was that there is a variety and breadth to to term Democrat. And of course someone on the "Left" is going to say Democrats are better. But the answer is without nuance, as is the question you posed.

 

[LPCTech]

This is really easy. Of course democrats are better than republicans.

Republicans voted for Trump and put him in office. Even though MANY of them knew he was bad and would do bad things.
The rest, like Trump and are obviously retarded.

Democrats do not like Trump, and did not put him in office.

Trump is objectively bad. Regardless of if you are republican or democrat.

And so, in conclusion. Democrats are in fact better than republicans. And that is ONE THING. We dont have time for the whole list.

Republicans stand for bad things that are bad. Evil in fact. Not to mention all the lying and pretending reality isnt real.

Of course Democrats are better.

OH also, a great many republicans are traitors to america by intention or because they are dumb.
So again. Not being traitors. Democrats are better.

lol this is fun.

 

[jmagg]

Democrats do not like Trump, and did not put him in office.

Send that memo to Pennsylvania.

 

[Roflmouth]

Democrats are certainly better at losing, though I doubt that's something to be celebrated (except by Republicans)

 

[Victorian Gray]

Ah... because legalized gay marriage came about due to physical violence by gays, women got the vote by burning everything down, etc...?

The point is that much can and has been achieved by consistent and rational discourse.

The fight for women's suffrage includes violence and protest
How a Riot Helped to Ratify the 19th amendment

https://blog.education.nationalgeog...w-a-riot-helped-to-ratify-the-19th-amendment/