Are businesses required to take pennies?

[Thorny]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: DaShen
Just put the pennies in a roll :roll:

It is considerate to do anyways.

Someone in a grocery store I used to work in tried to pay me in a couple of rolls of pennies, but I couldn't take them unless I broke them open and counted. It might be considerate to roll them, but the cashier still needs to count it to make sure they aren't getting something filled with washers.

The washers would cost more than the pennies. Quarters perhaps, but not pennies.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: DT4K

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: StevenYoo
lots of people out there want to abolish the penny.

the actual copper in a penny is now worth more than the penny itself, u know.

STOP POSTING!!!

I hate it when people love to claim something as truth yet have no real knowledge (like this person and the OP)

Pennies are mostly zinc not copper. Been that way for many many years. They have very little copper and the copper in a penny is NOT worth more then a penny.


And as someone already posted...

""There is, however, no Federal law mandating that a person or organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services."

That's it. All this means is that the Federal Reserve System must honor U.S. currency and coins, not necessarily anyone else. "

You're only half right about this. It's true they're made of 97.5% zinc and 2.5% of copper but with rising zinc costs, the penny is worth only about .75 cents.

WSJ Article

Half right? Try reading again. Everything I said was true. Heck you even backed it up. A penny only has 2.5% copper. That is no where near the value of a cent by weight.

Yeah, you're right.
But pre-1982 pennies do have more than a penny's worth of copper.
And it does cost more than 1 cent to make a penny today.
And the value of the metal in a nickel IS actually slightly more than 5 cents.

I agree and already know that. But that is not the false statement he and many others keep reporting as truth.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: StevenYoo
lots of people out there want to abolish the penny.

the actual copper in a penny is now worth more than the penny itself, u know.

STOP POSTING!!!

I hate it when people love to claim something as truth yet have no real knowledge (like this person and the OP)

Pennies are mostly zinc not copper. Been that way for many many years. They have very little copper and the copper in a penny is NOT worth more then a penny.


And as someone already posted...

""There is, however, no Federal law mandating that a person or organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services."

That's it. All this means is that the Federal Reserve System must honor U.S. currency and coins, not necessarily anyone else. "

You're only half right about this. It's true they're made of 97.5% zinc and 2.5% of copper but with rising zinc costs, the penny is worth only about .75 cents.

WSJ Article

Half right? Try reading again. Everything I said was true. Heck you even backed it up. A penny only has 2.5% copper. That is no where near the value of a cent by weight.

You are entirely right, but you dismissed StevenYoo's post because it had one inaccuracy in it. He is right that the penny is more expensive to produce than its face value. And we should get rid of it because of that.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: StevenYoo
lots of people out there want to abolish the penny.

the actual copper in a penny is now worth more than the penny itself, u know.

STOP POSTING!!!

I hate it when people love to claim something as truth yet have no real knowledge (like this person and the OP)

Pennies are mostly zinc not copper. Been that way for many many years. They have very little copper and the copper in a penny is NOT worth more then a penny.


And as someone already posted...

""There is, however, no Federal law mandating that a person or organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services."

That's it. All this means is that the Federal Reserve System must honor U.S. currency and coins, not necessarily anyone else. "

You're only half right about this. It's true they're made of 97.5% zinc and 2.5% of copper but with rising zinc costs, the penny is worth only about .75 cents.

WSJ Article

Half right? Try reading again. Everything I said was true. Heck you even backed it up. A penny only has 2.5% copper. That is no where near the value of a cent by weight.

Read the second article on the WSJ site. It explains the value of the penny versus the cost to make it.

 

[Bacstar]

Hehehe...I remember having to do this in my college days to get some gas. I had a whole ziplock bag full of pennies and the guy wouldn't take it til I rolled it all up.

He was kind enough to give me the paper rolls, but I had to sit there and roll them all up. Lets say that was the hardest 8 dollars of gas I had to work for.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: StevenYoo
lots of people out there want to abolish the penny.

the actual copper in a penny is now worth more than the penny itself, u know.

STOP POSTING!!!

I hate it when people love to claim something as truth yet have no real knowledge (like this person and the OP)

Pennies are mostly zinc not copper. Been that way for many many years. They have very little copper and the copper in a penny is NOT worth more then a penny.


And as someone already posted...

""There is, however, no Federal law mandating that a person or organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services."

That's it. All this means is that the Federal Reserve System must honor U.S. currency and coins, not necessarily anyone else. "

You're only half right about this. It's true they're made of 97.5% zinc and 2.5% of copper but with rising zinc costs, the penny is worth only about .75 cents.

WSJ Article

Half right? Try reading again. Everything I said was true. Heck you even backed it up. A penny only has 2.5% copper. That is no where near the value of a cent by weight.

Read the second article on the WSJ site. It explains the value of the penny versus the cost to make it.

Marlin didn't post anything in regards to cost of production vs. value. He refuted the statement that StevenYoo made about the copper in pennies being worth more than the the penny itself. In the thread, he even agreed with the statement that the cost of production is more than the value.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: Thorny

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: DaShen
Just put the pennies in a roll :roll:

It is considerate to do anyways.

Someone in a grocery store I used to work in tried to pay me in a couple of rolls of pennies, but I couldn't take them unless I broke them open and counted. It might be considerate to roll them, but the cashier still needs to count it to make sure they aren't getting something filled with washers.

The washers would cost more than the pennies. Quarters perhaps, but not pennies.

I understand that, but the cashier still has to count the pennies in the rolls to make sure that there are 50 U.S. pennies in the roll.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: StevenYoo
lots of people out there want to abolish the penny.

the actual copper in a penny is now worth more than the penny itself, u know.

STOP POSTING!!!

I hate it when people love to claim something as truth yet have no real knowledge (like this person and the OP)

Pennies are mostly zinc not copper. Been that way for many many years. They have very little copper and the copper in a penny is NOT worth more then a penny.


And as someone already posted...

""There is, however, no Federal law mandating that a person or organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services."

That's it. All this means is that the Federal Reserve System must honor U.S. currency and coins, not necessarily anyone else. "

You're only half right about this. It's true they're made of 97.5% zinc and 2.5% of copper but with rising zinc costs, the penny is worth only about .75 cents.

WSJ Article

Half right? Try reading again. Everything I said was true. Heck you even backed it up. A penny only has 2.5% copper. That is no where near the value of a cent by weight.

Read the second article on the WSJ site. It explains the value of the penny versus the cost to make it.

Actually, you're reading the WSJ wrong. The raw metal value of a penny is just slightly under 1 cent because Zinc is now nearing $2 a lb.

It is not worth .75. That is what that author is claiming the material, production and distribution costs are for the mint to maintain a supply of pennies.

http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1982-2007-Lincoln-Cent-Penny-Value.html

$0.0095782 is the melt value for the 1982-2007 zinc cent on January 16, 2007.

 

[FoBoT]

i am anti-penny

http://www.forbes.com/2002/07/05/0705penny.html

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: StevenYoo
lots of people out there want to abolish the penny.

the actual copper in a penny is now worth more than the penny itself, u know.

STOP POSTING!!!

I hate it when people love to claim something as truth yet have no real knowledge (like this person and the OP)

Pennies are mostly zinc not copper. Been that way for many many years. They have very little copper and the copper in a penny is NOT worth more then a penny.


And as someone already posted...

""There is, however, no Federal law mandating that a person or organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services."

That's it. All this means is that the Federal Reserve System must honor U.S. currency and coins, not necessarily anyone else. "

You're only half right about this. It's true they're made of 97.5% zinc and 2.5% of copper but with rising zinc costs, the penny is worth only about .75 cents.

WSJ Article

Half right? Try reading again. Everything I said was true. Heck you even backed it up. A penny only has 2.5% copper. That is no where near the value of a cent by weight.

Read the second article on the WSJ site. It explains the value of the penny versus the cost to make it.

Marlin didn't post anything in regards to cost of production vs. value. He refuted the statement that StevenYoo made about the copper in pennies being worth more than the the penny itself. In the thread, he even agreed with the statement that the cost of production is more than the value.

Thanks. I almost thought no one could read past a 2nd grade level anymore here. 🙂

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: StevenYoo
lots of people out there want to abolish the penny.

the actual copper in a penny is now worth more than the penny itself, u know.

STOP POSTING!!!

I hate it when people love to claim something as truth yet have no real knowledge (like this person and the OP)

Pennies are mostly zinc not copper. Been that way for many many years. They have very little copper and the copper in a penny is NOT worth more then a penny.


And as someone already posted...

""There is, however, no Federal law mandating that a person or organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services."

That's it. All this means is that the Federal Reserve System must honor U.S. currency and coins, not necessarily anyone else. "

You're only half right about this. It's true they're made of 97.5% zinc and 2.5% of copper but with rising zinc costs, the penny is worth only about .75 cents.

WSJ Article

Half right? Try reading again. Everything I said was true. Heck you even backed it up. A penny only has 2.5% copper. That is no where near the value of a cent by weight.

Read the second article on the WSJ site. It explains the value of the penny versus the cost to make it.

Actually, you're reading the WSJ wrong. Tn raw metal value of a penny is just slightly under 1 cent because Zinc is now nearing $2 a lb.

It is not worth .75. That is what that author is claiming the material, production and distribution costs are for the mint to maintain a supply of pennies.

http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1982-2007-Lincoln-Cent-Penny-Value.html

$0.0095782 is the melt value for the 1982-2007 zinc cent on January 16, 2007.

My mistake.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: glutenberg


My mistake.

That's cool. we all make them. I do it sometimes when googling for answers and quickly skimming over info.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: Thorny

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: DaShen
Just put the pennies in a roll :roll:

It is considerate to do anyways.

Someone in a grocery store I used to work in tried to pay me in a couple of rolls of pennies, but I couldn't take them unless I broke them open and counted. It might be considerate to roll them, but the cashier still needs to count it to make sure they aren't getting something filled with washers.

The washers would cost more than the pennies. Quarters perhaps, but not pennies.

I understand that, but the cashier still has to count the pennies in the rolls to make sure that there are 50 U.S. pennies in the roll.

Usually banks don't even do that. They just have you write your name and account number on them, do nothing with that information, and then sell them to someone else (who now has your name and account number :Q). Of course, if someone opened that roll and found washers in it, they'd take it back to the bank and they'd have your name and account number. It's not something you could get away with for a long time, and it's not really a worthwhile thing to do.

Working at a convenience store, I'd get rolls of coins from the bank that they had gotten from their customers, and it was amazing what people would sell to the bank at face value. Entire rolls of silver coins, mercury dimes, buffalo nickels, indian head pennies, etc. People get hard up for cash at the end of the month and do retarded things. I have a nice sized collection of the stuff, but my dad has TONS of old coins and bills (he owned the convenience store for 25 years).

 

[Thorny]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: Thorny

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: DaShen
Just put the pennies in a roll :roll:

It is considerate to do anyways.

Someone in a grocery store I used to work in tried to pay me in a couple of rolls of pennies, but I couldn't take them unless I broke them open and counted. It might be considerate to roll them, but the cashier still needs to count it to make sure they aren't getting something filled with washers.

The washers would cost more than the pennies. Quarters perhaps, but not pennies.

I understand that, but the cashier still has to count the pennies in the rolls to make sure that there are 50 U.S. pennies in the roll.

I wouldn't do that, even with quarters, prolly wouldn't ask any of my employees to either. But I suppose if that was your companies policy you'd be best to abide by it. If one of my customers want to rip me off two quarters on a $10 transaction, so be it. Anything more than a couple missing would be obvious, any thing less I don't care about considering how often that would happen. If your profit margins are so low your counting rolls of pennies, you've got bigger problems to deal with.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: mugs

Usually banks don't even do that. They just have you write your name and account number on them, do nothing with that information, and then sell them to someone else (who now has your name and account number :Q). Of course, if someone opened that roll and found washers in it, they'd take it back to the bank and they'd have your name and account number. It's not something you could get away with for a long time, and it's not really a worthwhile thing to do.

Excuse me if my sarcasm meter is broken, but are you serious? Which banks do that? I've never had to do that at Bank of America.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: StevenYoo
lots of people out there want to abolish the penny.

the actual copper in a penny is now worth more than the penny itself, u know.

STOP POSTING!!!

I hate it when people love to claim something as truth yet have no real knowledge (like this person and the OP)

Pennies are mostly zinc not copper. Been that way for many many years. They have very little copper and the copper in a penny is NOT worth more then a penny.


And as someone already posted...

""There is, however, no Federal law mandating that a person or organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services."

That's it. All this means is that the Federal Reserve System must honor U.S. currency and coins, not necessarily anyone else. "

Oh Really?
http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-12-14-melting-ban-usat_x.htm

New rules outlaw melting pennies, nickels for profit
Posted 12/14/2006 12:01 AM ET E-mail | Save | Print | Reprints & Permissions |

Enlarge By Haraz N. Ghanbari, AP

The value of the metal in a nickel is now 6.99 cents, while the penny's metal is worth 1.12 cents, according to the U.S. Mint

By Barbara Hagenbaugh, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON ? People who melt pennies or nickels to profit from the jump in metals prices could face jail time and pay thousands of dollars in fines, according to new rules out Thursday.
Soaring metals prices mean that the value of the metal in pennies and nickels exceeds the face value of the coins. Based on current metals prices, the value of the metal in a nickel is now 6.99 cents, while the penny's metal is worth 1.12 cents, according to the U.S. Mint.

That has piqued concern among government officials that people will melt the coins to sell the metal, leading to potential shortages of pennies and nickels.

"The nation needs its coinage for commerce," U.S. Mint director Ed Moy said in a statement. "We don't want to see our pennies and nickels melted down so a few individuals can take advantage of the American taxpayer. Replacing these coins would be an enormous cost to taxpayers."

STORY: Government appeals currency redesign

There have been no specific reports of people melting coins for the metal, Mint spokeswoman Becky Bailey says. But the agency has received a number of questions in recent months from the public about the legality of melting the coins, and officials have heard some anecdotal reports of companies considering selling the metal from pennies and nickels, she says.

Under the new rules, it is illegal to melt pennies and nickels. It is also illegal to export the coins for melting. Travelers may legally carry up to $5 in 1- and 5-cent coins out of the USA or ship $100 of the coins abroad "for legitimate coinage and numismatic purposes."

Violators could spend up to five years in prison and pay as much as $10,000 in fines. Plus, the government will confiscate any coins or metal used in melting schemes.

The rules are similar to those enacted in the 1960s and 1970s, when metals prices also rose, the Mint said. Ongoing regulations make it illegal to alter coins with an intent to commit fraud. Before today's new regulations, it was not illegal to melt coins.

Metals prices have skyrocketed worldwide in recent years in response to rising demand, particularly in rapidly growing China and India. Prices for zinc, which accounts for nearly all of the metal in the penny, have risen 134% this year, according to the London Metal Exchange. Even accounting for a recent decline, the price of copper is up 50% since the start of 2006. Nickels are produced from 75% copper and 25% nickel.

Although the Mint's new rules are immediately going into effect, the Mint will take comments from the public for a month.

The government has changed the composition of coins in response to rising metal prices. The penny, which was pure copper when it was introduced in 1793, was last changed in 1982.

 

[Kanalua]

Originally posted by: Unheard
Yes, by federal law they are required to take it.

That's not true, they don't have to take it... they still have the right to refuse service to anyone (for most reasons, and using pennies is no exceptions to the rule, unless racially/sexually motivated?)

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: StevenYoo
lots of people out there want to abolish the penny.

the actual copper in a penny is now worth more than the penny itself, u know.

STOP POSTING!!!

I hate it when people love to claim something as truth yet have no real knowledge (like this person and the OP)

Pennies are mostly zinc not copper. Been that way for many many years. They have very little copper and the copper in a penny is NOT worth more then a penny.


And as someone already posted...

""There is, however, no Federal law mandating that a person or organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services."

That's it. All this means is that the Federal Reserve System must honor U.S. currency and coins, not necessarily anyone else. "

Oh Really?
http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-12-14-melting-ban-usat_x.htm

New rules outlaw melting pennies, nickels for profit
Posted 12/14/2006 12:01 AM ET E-mail | Save | Print | Reprints & Permissions |

Enlarge By Haraz N. Ghanbari, AP

The value of the metal in a nickel is now 6.99 cents, while the penny's metal is worth 1.12 cents, according to the U.S. Mint

By Barbara Hagenbaugh, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON ? People who melt pennies or nickels to profit from the jump in metals prices could face jail time and pay thousands of dollars in fines, according to new rules out Thursday.
Soaring metals prices mean that the value of the metal in pennies and nickels exceeds the face value of the coins. Based on current metals prices, the value of the metal in a nickel is now 6.99 cents, while the penny's metal is worth 1.12 cents, according to the U.S. Mint.

That has piqued concern among government officials that people will melt the coins to sell the metal, leading to potential shortages of pennies and nickels.

"The nation needs its coinage for commerce," U.S. Mint director Ed Moy said in a statement. "We don't want to see our pennies and nickels melted down so a few individuals can take advantage of the American taxpayer. Replacing these coins would be an enormous cost to taxpayers."

STORY: Government appeals currency redesign

There have been no specific reports of people melting coins for the metal, Mint spokeswoman Becky Bailey says. But the agency has received a number of questions in recent months from the public about the legality of melting the coins, and officials have heard some anecdotal reports of companies considering selling the metal from pennies and nickels, she says.

Under the new rules, it is illegal to melt pennies and nickels. It is also illegal to export the coins for melting. Travelers may legally carry up to $5 in 1- and 5-cent coins out of the USA or ship $100 of the coins abroad "for legitimate coinage and numismatic purposes."

Violators could spend up to five years in prison and pay as much as $10,000 in fines. Plus, the government will confiscate any coins or metal used in melting schemes.

The rules are similar to those enacted in the 1960s and 1970s, when metals prices also rose, the Mint said. Ongoing regulations make it illegal to alter coins with an intent to commit fraud. Before today's new regulations, it was not illegal to melt coins.

Metals prices have skyrocketed worldwide in recent years in response to rising demand, particularly in rapidly growing China and India. Prices for zinc, which accounts for nearly all of the metal in the penny, have risen 134% this year, according to the London Metal Exchange. Even accounting for a recent decline, the price of copper is up 50% since the start of 2006. Nickels are produced from 75% copper and 25% nickel.

Although the Mint's new rules are immediately going into effect, the Mint will take comments from the public for a month.

The government has changed the composition of coins in response to rising metal prices. The penny, which was pure copper when it was introduced in 1793, was last changed in 1982.

http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1982-2007-Lincoln-Cent-Penny-Value.html

$0.0095782 is the melt value for the 1982-2007 zinc cent on January 16, 2007.

The price of zinc dropped a little.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: StevenYoo
lots of people out there want to abolish the penny.

the actual copper in a penny is now worth more than the penny itself, u know.

STOP POSTING!!!

I hate it when people love to claim something as truth yet have no real knowledge (like this person and the OP)

Pennies are mostly zinc not copper. Been that way for many many years. They have very little copper and the copper in a penny is NOT worth more then a penny.


And as someone already posted...

""There is, however, no Federal law mandating that a person or organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services."

That's it. All this means is that the Federal Reserve System must honor U.S. currency and coins, not necessarily anyone else. "

Oh Really?
http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-12-14-melting-ban-usat_x.htm

New rules outlaw melting pennies, nickels for profit
Posted 12/14/2006 12:01 AM ET E-mail | Save | Print | Reprints & Permissions |

Enlarge By Haraz N. Ghanbari, AP

The value of the metal in a nickel is now 6.99 cents, while the penny's metal is worth 1.12 cents, according to the U.S. Mint

By Barbara Hagenbaugh, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON ? People who melt pennies or nickels to profit from the jump in metals prices could face jail time and pay thousands of dollars in fines, according to new rules out Thursday.
Soaring metals prices mean that the value of the metal in pennies and nickels exceeds the face value of the coins. Based on current metals prices, the value of the metal in a nickel is now 6.99 cents, while the penny's metal is worth 1.12 cents, according to the U.S. Mint.

That has piqued concern among government officials that people will melt the coins to sell the metal, leading to potential shortages of pennies and nickels.

"The nation needs its coinage for commerce," U.S. Mint director Ed Moy said in a statement. "We don't want to see our pennies and nickels melted down so a few individuals can take advantage of the American taxpayer. Replacing these coins would be an enormous cost to taxpayers."

STORY: Government appeals currency redesign

There have been no specific reports of people melting coins for the metal, Mint spokeswoman Becky Bailey says. But the agency has received a number of questions in recent months from the public about the legality of melting the coins, and officials have heard some anecdotal reports of companies considering selling the metal from pennies and nickels, she says.

Under the new rules, it is illegal to melt pennies and nickels. It is also illegal to export the coins for melting. Travelers may legally carry up to $5 in 1- and 5-cent coins out of the USA or ship $100 of the coins abroad "for legitimate coinage and numismatic purposes."

Violators could spend up to five years in prison and pay as much as $10,000 in fines. Plus, the government will confiscate any coins or metal used in melting schemes.

The rules are similar to those enacted in the 1960s and 1970s, when metals prices also rose, the Mint said. Ongoing regulations make it illegal to alter coins with an intent to commit fraud. Before today's new regulations, it was not illegal to melt coins.

Metals prices have skyrocketed worldwide in recent years in response to rising demand, particularly in rapidly growing China and India. Prices for zinc, which accounts for nearly all of the metal in the penny, have risen 134% this year, according to the London Metal Exchange. Even accounting for a recent decline, the price of copper is up 50% since the start of 2006. Nickels are produced from 75% copper and 25% nickel.

Although the Mint's new rules are immediately going into effect, the Mint will take comments from the public for a month.

The government has changed the composition of coins in response to rising metal prices. The penny, which was pure copper when it was introduced in 1793, was last changed in 1982.

Ya rly!

Bolded the parts for you that are relevant.

Your article says nothing about the value of copper in the penny, which is what Marlin addressed.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: StevenYoo
lots of people out there want to abolish the penny.

the actual copper in a penny is now worth more than the penny itself, u know.

STOP POSTING!!!

I hate it when people love to claim something as truth yet have no real knowledge (like this person and the OP)

Pennies are mostly zinc not copper. Been that way for many many years. They have very little copper and the copper in a penny is NOT worth more then a penny.


And as someone already posted...

""There is, however, no Federal law mandating that a person or organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services."

That's it. All this means is that the Federal Reserve System must honor U.S. currency and coins, not necessarily anyone else. "

Oh Really?
http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-12-14-melting-ban-usat_x.htm

New rules outlaw melting pennies, nickels for profit
Posted 12/14/2006 12:01 AM ET E-mail | Save | Print | Reprints & Permissions |

Enlarge By Haraz N. Ghanbari, AP

The value of the metal in a nickel is now 6.99 cents, while the penny's metal is worth 1.12 cents, according to the U.S. Mint

By Barbara Hagenbaugh, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON ? People who melt pennies or nickels to profit from the jump in metals prices could face jail time and pay thousands of dollars in fines, according to new rules out Thursday.
Soaring metals prices mean that the value of the metal in pennies and nickels exceeds the face value of the coins. Based on current metals prices, the value of the metal in a nickel is now 6.99 cents, while the penny's metal is worth 1.12 cents, according to the U.S. Mint.

That has piqued concern among government officials that people will melt the coins to sell the metal, leading to potential shortages of pennies and nickels.

"The nation needs its coinage for commerce," U.S. Mint director Ed Moy said in a statement. "We don't want to see our pennies and nickels melted down so a few individuals can take advantage of the American taxpayer. Replacing these coins would be an enormous cost to taxpayers."

STORY: Government appeals currency redesign

There have been no specific reports of people melting coins for the metal, Mint spokeswoman Becky Bailey says. But the agency has received a number of questions in recent months from the public about the legality of melting the coins, and officials have heard some anecdotal reports of companies considering selling the metal from pennies and nickels, she says.

Under the new rules, it is illegal to melt pennies and nickels. It is also illegal to export the coins for melting. Travelers may legally carry up to $5 in 1- and 5-cent coins out of the USA or ship $100 of the coins abroad "for legitimate coinage and numismatic purposes."

Violators could spend up to five years in prison and pay as much as $10,000 in fines. Plus, the government will confiscate any coins or metal used in melting schemes.

The rules are similar to those enacted in the 1960s and 1970s, when metals prices also rose, the Mint said. Ongoing regulations make it illegal to alter coins with an intent to commit fraud. Before today's new regulations, it was not illegal to melt coins.

Metals prices have skyrocketed worldwide in recent years in response to rising demand, particularly in rapidly growing China and India. Prices for zinc, which accounts for nearly all of the metal in the penny, have risen 134% this year, according to the London Metal Exchange. Even accounting for a recent decline, the price of copper is up 50% since the start of 2006. Nickels are produced from 75% copper and 25% nickel.

Although the Mint's new rules are immediately going into effect, the Mint will take comments from the public for a month.

The government has changed the composition of coins in response to rising metal prices. The penny, which was pure copper when it was introduced in 1793, was last changed in 1982.

BigJ already pointed out to me that Marlin was referring to the 2.5% of copper being worth more than a penny, which isn't true. The spirit of StevenYoo's post was that pennies are worth less than the material and labor used to make them. He just got the materials used wrong.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: mugs

Usually banks don't even do that. They just have you write your name and account number on them, do nothing with that information, and then sell them to someone else (who now has your name and account number :Q). Of course, if someone opened that roll and found washers in it, they'd take it back to the bank and they'd have your name and account number. It's not something you could get away with for a long time, and it's not really a worthwhile thing to do.

Excuse me if my sarcasm meter is broken, but are you serious? Which banks do that? I've never had to do that at Bank of America.

I've never sold change to a bank, but like I said I worked at a convenience store (2 actually) for years and often had to go to the money to drop off a deposit and buy some change. We'd often get rolls of coins with people's names and account numbers or phone number on them. One of the banks was a regional bank that is now part of PNC, the other was Summit (now part of BofA).

Man, I used to have to carry a bag with $500 in quarters, $30+ in pennies and some nickels and dimes back from the bank - that's killer on your hands (the bank was next door fortunately).

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Amused
$0.0095782 is the melt value for the 1982-2007 zinc cent on January 16, 2007.

The price of zinc dropped a little.

That may be true, but when you add in the production and distribution costs it makes no sense to continue minting pennies.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: StevenYoo
lots of people out there want to abolish the penny.

the actual copper in a penny is now worth more than the penny itself, u know.

STOP POSTING!!!

I hate it when people love to claim something as truth yet have no real knowledge (like this person and the OP)

Pennies are mostly zinc not copper. Been that way for many many years. They have very little copper and the copper in a penny is NOT worth more then a penny.


And as someone already posted...

""There is, however, no Federal law mandating that a person or organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services."

That's it. All this means is that the Federal Reserve System must honor U.S. currency and coins, not necessarily anyone else. "

You're only half right about this. It's true they're made of 97.5% zinc and 2.5% of copper but with rising zinc costs, the penny is worth only about .75 cents.

WSJ Article

Half right? Try reading again. Everything I said was true. Heck you even backed it up. A penny only has 2.5% copper. That is no where near the value of a cent by weight.

Read the second article on the WSJ site. It explains the value of the penny versus the cost to make it.

Actually, you're reading the WSJ wrong. The raw metal value of a penny is just slightly under 1 cent because Zinc is now nearing $2 a lb.

It is not worth .75. That is what that author is claiming the material, production and distribution costs are for the mint to maintain a supply of pennies.

http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1982-2007-Lincoln-Cent-Penny-Value.html

$0.0095782 is the melt value for the 1982-2007 zinc cent on January 16, 2007.

from the WSJ piece

Due to rising demand in China and other developing countries, the price of zinc (which makes up 97.5% of the metal in a penny) has soared to nearly $2 per pound. At this price, the value of the metal in a penny is MORE than one cent -- exceeding the face value of a penny by about 10%. Add to this the cost of minting each coin, and the U.S. Mint is now losing about 0.75 cents on each penny it cranks out. Assuming that it continues the current pace of producing nine billion or so pennies a year, this would add up to an annual loss of about $67.5 million.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: mugs

Usually banks don't even do that. They just have you write your name and account number on them, do nothing with that information, and then sell them to someone else (who now has your name and account number :Q). Of course, if someone opened that roll and found washers in it, they'd take it back to the bank and they'd have your name and account number. It's not something you could get away with for a long time, and it's not really a worthwhile thing to do.

Excuse me if my sarcasm meter is broken, but are you serious? Which banks do that? I've never had to do that at Bank of America.

I have seen that as well. I have seen rolls with peoples names and other info on them when they came from the bank. Not sure if it is a bank policy or a branch policy?

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: mugs

Usually banks don't even do that. They just have you write your name and account number on them, do nothing with that information, and then sell them to someone else (who now has your name and account number :Q). Of course, if someone opened that roll and found washers in it, they'd take it back to the bank and they'd have your name and account number. It's not something you could get away with for a long time, and it's not really a worthwhile thing to do.

Excuse me if my sarcasm meter is broken, but are you serious? Which banks do that? I've never had to do that at Bank of America.

I've never sold change to a bank, but like I said I worked at a convenience store (2 actually) for years and often had to go to the money to drop off a deposit and buy some change. We'd often get rolls of coins with people's names and account numbers or phone number on them. One of the banks was a regional bank that is now part of PNC, the other was Summit (now part of BofA).

Man, I used to have to carry a bag with $500 in quarters, $30+ in pennies and some nickels and dimes back from the bank - that's killer on your hands (the bank was next door fortunately).

Wow. Can't you basically process an electronic transcation with a person's Name, Account Number, and Routing Number? Talk about a huge privacy breach.

And I hear you about the weight of the change. Those $500 boxes of quarters. $100 boxes of nickels, and $25 boxes of pennies are heavy.