Are Bummy Item Flippers Going to Make the 480 Hard to Get?

[sirmo]

No scientific testing necessary. Just visit the Ethereum thread if you need evidence of newer drivers gimping performance or one of the many AMD driver release threads.

I did, there are multiple people in the same thread reporting no drop in performance with the latest drivers.

 

[RussianSensation]

Of course that isn't the whole story for mining, it comes down to how much you can mine per watt. The mining software doesn't do a very good job using all the resources of Fiji (often mines very close to Hawaii) but people still buy Nano Furys for mining because the MH/Watt is lower than with Hawaii. If Polaris is "good enough" people with lots of capital who are doing mining as a serious business endeavour will buy them up to use in large mining farms, while smaller miner might instead jump on the 290s and 390s gamers are selling to get money for an upgrade. That might be the best case scenario for gamers who want a 480 for gaming and who plan to sell an old AMD card to buy that 480.

You hit the nail on the head.

If we take a 390 OC 1100 at 280W ~ 30MH/sec x 4 = 1120W (very risky to run on a single 1000W PSU). Cost $280 x 4 = $1120

vs.

RX 480 x 6 = $200 x 6 = $1200 USD (a bit more $), but if each uses 150W, that's only 900W. It's a lot more easier to run 6x RX 480s on a single 1000W unit than max overclocked 390s on the same unit.

Why does this matter? Because if RX 480 mines just 20MH/sec, that means it'll be easier to put together 6x RX480 + 1000W PSU rigs than 4x R9 390 @ 30MH/sec on the same 1000W unit. With undervolting, the 480 should pull ahead even more.

As a card marketed to the mass market, TRG better have built up inventory quantities!

:thumbsup: Let's hope so because they have given themselves almost a month from the announcement date.

Anyway Polaris mining speed is unknown but given the relatively poor performance of the 380/X and the same bus speeds I'm not expecting more than 22-23Mh per card without a serious core bump.

That being said if with a major core bump they hash over 25Mh @ 150W while undervolted I'll be one of those guys lining up to buy 20 at launch (if I can get my hands on that many).

If these cards end up good for ether mining and the price of ether holds you'll find it very difficult to get your hands on one regardless of availability

It doesn't even need to hit 25Mh/sec @ 150W to make sense.

Think about it 6x 20MH/sec @ 900W vs. 4x 30MH/sec @ 1000-1100W. Right there alone RX 480 sounds like a win. Of course it could go either way because we might see R9 390 cards on sale for ~ $200. Then the choice is less clear.

Anyway, as I said earlier, if AMD truly intends to target the quarterly 8-10M mainstream/performance dGPU market segment with P10, the demand from miners should be a drop in the bucket for them. They better have 1M cards ready for launch by June 29th.

 

[Madpacket]

You hit the nail on the head.

If we take a 390 OC 1100 at 280W ~ 30MH/sec x 4 = 1120W (very risky to run on a single 1000W PSU). Cost $280 x 4 = $1120

vs.

RX 480 x 6 = $200 x 6 = $1200 USD (a bit more $), but if each uses 150W, that's only 900W. It's a lot more easier to run 6x RX 480s on a single 1000W unit than max overclocked 390s on the same unit.

Why does this matter? Because if RX 480 mines just 20MH/sec, that means it'll be easier to put together 6x RX480 + 1000W PSU rigs than 4x R9 390 @ 30MH/sec on the same 1000W unit. With undervolting, the 480 should pull ahead even more.



:thumbsup: Let's hope so because they have given themselves almost a month from the announcement date.



It doesn't even need to hit 25Mh/sec @ 150W to make sense.

Think about it 6x 20MH/sec @ 900W vs. 4x 30MH/sec @ 1000-1100W. Right there alone RX 480 sounds like a win. Of course it could go either way because we might see R9 390 cards on sale for ~ $200. Then the choice is less clear.

Anyway, as I said earlier, if AMD truly intends to target the quarterly 8-10M mainstream/performance dGPU market segment with P10, the demand from miners should be a drop in the bucket for them. They better have 1M cards ready for launch by June 29th.

Besides hashing speed the elephant in the room is difficulty. Ether difficulty has increased 40% in the last 30 days with no signs of slowing down. So if you can get your hands on those 290's for $229 CAD you'll enjoy at least a solid 3 - 4 weeks of mining at a lower difficulty.

Compared to $400+ CAD 390's I totally agree, worth waiting for the 480's unless they end up being a dog for mining but hopefully within month 390's will drop a good 30% - 40% in price making the decision easier.

 

[Madpacket]

I did, there are multiple people in the same thread reporting no drop in performance with the latest drivers.

Sorry I meant our Ethereum thread here:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2463816

The drop in performance by newer drivers has been reported by enough individuals that it's something to be of concern at the very least.

Sure you can use alternate mining apps as a workaround but keep mind there's a tradeoff. They consume more energy over the standard ethminer for a more stable hashing. Depending on your power supply this may or may not matter.

I hope the 480 will get properly working ethminer support on launch but I'm skeptical based on current results.

 

[littleg]

I think someday people are going to look back at this 'mining' thing and wonder what the hell we were thinking. It's pretty much just paying people to use electricity.

 

[Madpacket]

I think someday people are going to look back at this 'mining' thing and wonder what the hell we were thinking. It's pretty much just paying people to use electricity.

Please read up on what Proof of Work is before spouting off ignorant comments.

 

[littleg]

Please read up on what Proof of Work is before spouting off ignorant comments.

No, I understand the concept fine. It just seems a little pointless.

 

[Atreidin]

It might be a good idea for AMD to release the card with bad mining performance at first, then maybe a month later release a "fix," just so the miners don't ruin everything for everyone by soaking up all the initial supply.

 

[digitaldurandal]

I've never gotten a GPU at launch, and just started following the gtx 1080 and rx 480 release. I see dead end job people typing about buying more than they need to supplement their low pay-checks like they do on SlickDeals. Anyone think these cards will be hard to get?

I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you have difficulty making enough money to pay your bills. If you do, make sure you do not do anything enterprising and capitalistic to improve your situation that may slightly inconvenience someone with more resources than you.

 

[EightySix Four]

I think someday people are going to look back at this 'mining' thing and wonder what the hell we were thinking. It's pretty much just paying people to use electricity.

OT: I was always fascinated by an exploratory paper I read as an undergrad that was discussing fixing the price of the dollar to the KW/h instead of gold. It assumed we had found a way better way to store power, so wasn't real world applicable, but interesting either way.

 

[Denithor]

RX 480 x 6 = $200 x 6 = $1200 USD (a bit more $), but if each uses 150W, that's only 900W. It's a lot more easier to run 6x RX 480s on a single 1000W unit than max overclocked 390s on the same unit.

Are there motherboards with 6 x PCIe slots wide enough apart to hold double-slot cooled cards? I'm not into mining but remember running F@H way back in the day, managed to find a 4 x PCIe board but it was a PITA to get three cards recognized and functioning correctly, never could get the fourth to work right.

It might be a good idea for AMD to release the card with bad mining performance at first, then maybe a month later release a "fix," just so the miners don't ruin everything for everyone by soaking up all the initial supply.

It sounds like that's what they did with the 16.x drivers? Comments above indicate noticeably worse performance than 15.11? Haha

 

[MrTeal]

Are there motherboards with 6 x PCIe slots wide enough apart to hold double-slot cooled cards? I'm not into mining but remember running F@H way back in the day, managed to find a 4 x PCIe board but it was a PITA to get three cards recognized and functioning correctly, never could get the fourth to work right.

No, you can't get a standard motherboard with that many slots double spaced, there's no physical room. People use extenders to manually space out the cards so single spacing isn't an issue. You could use a server PCIe backplane, but that would be a tad bit costlier than just using two ATX motherboards.

 

[swilli89]

I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you have difficulty making enough money to pay your bills. If you do, make sure you do not do anything enterprising and capitalistic to improve your situation that may slightly inconvenience someone with more resources than you.

Take that filth elsewhere. We don't need more capitalism worship arguments to defend scalpers. People buying up the supply to satisfy a demand are in part creating the shortage themselves, they are creating the problem and then selling the solution.

Mind if I hack into your computer and install a virus then sell you a fix? I'm just being capitalistic and enterprising!

 

[EightySix Four]

Take that filth elsewhere. We don't need more capitalism worship arguments to defend scalpers. People buying up the supply to satisfy a demand are in part creating the shortage themselves, they are creating the problem and then selling the solution.

Mind if I hack into your computer and install a virus then sell you a fix? I'm just being capitalistic and enterprising!

This is false equivalence. Installing a virus is (illegally) damaging property you already own...

 

[poofyhairguy]

they are creating the problem and then selling the solution.

I don't know why you are bringing up Gameworks at a time like this.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Take that filth elsewhere. We don't need more capitalism worship arguments to defend scalpers. People buying up the supply to satisfy a demand are in part creating the shortage themselves, they are creating the problem and then selling the solution.

Mind if I hack into your computer and install a virus then sell you a fix? I'm just being capitalistic and enterprising!

Why not? It works for the AntiVirus vendors...

 

[swilli89]

I don't know why you are bringing up Gameworks at a time like this.

Haha favorite post of the day, glad you have rejoined us from mobile

This is false equivalence. Installing a virus is (illegally) damaging property you already own...

THIS is what I wanted to be posted. I'm glad you stated this. Its not a false equivalence when it comes to ethics! ONLY in legality is it a false equivalence. You are saying one is fine because its legal and one is not fine because its illegal yet they are similar in how they work. One of the most corrupt and awfully dehumanizing things that can be possibly believed by the public is that something is right or wrong because its legal or not.

Why not? It works for the AntiVirus vendors...

Yep I try to get my examples from the real world!

 

[poofyhairguy]

Haha favorite post of the day, glad you have rejoined us from mobile

Yeah I realized that phones had plateaued and that there wasn't anything worth waiting for or getting excited for in the nearterm. I was kinda counting on the iPhone 7 to be a huge leap to catch everything on fire again, but then the leaks came and it's obvious that Apple is holding its punches for the ten year anniversary iPhone 8. No one else in the market is really exciting- Google is catching up to Samsung (VR, Multiwindow, their own devices, etc.) while Samsung is slowing down. I had fun with a Lumia 640 running Windows 10 for two months until the fact hit me that it's all a dead end. Pretty depressing, that segment was a lot of fun for a while, and the next exciting segments (VR, self driving cars) are too expensive or too rough around the edges for me to get into.

Luckily my old friend of GPU technology was ready and waiting with a new node shift and a cryptocoin that is profitable to mine. I am looking forward to buying a 480 the second I can get the 8GB one.

 

[EightySix Four]

THIS is what I wanted to be posted. I'm glad you stated this. Its not a false equivalence when it comes to ethics! ONLY in legality is it a false equivalence. You are saying one is fine because its legal and one is not fine because its illegal yet they are similar in how they work. One of the most corrupt and awfully dehumanizing things that can be possibly believed by the public is that something is right or wrong because its legal or not.

You missed the biggest point I made, it is false equivalence because in one someone is interrupting the function of something you already own. Ethically that is significantly different from making it more expensive for you to acquire something that isn't necessary for you to survive.

If someone was buying all of the food in a city and reselling it for 100x, that would be ethically and morally wrong, if someone is flipping graphics cards... It is pretty hard for me to buy into that argument. Sorry.