Are Bay Trail-based Windows 8.1 tablets going to kill off demand for Android tablets?

[Crono]

Granted, the new Bay Trail tablets won't be as fast as the Haswell-based (Core i3 and Core i5, doubt there will be any or many i7 tablets) ones, but with $100 to $500 tablets running Windows 8.1 more than acceptably for the first time, will everyone just buy Windows 8.1 tablets from the major manufacturers like ASUS, Samsung, and Acer instead of Android?

I'm betting the transition won't happen overnight, and there will be tablets running both Android and Windows, but considering all the full applications you can run in Windows 8.1 (not talking about RT here) including Android virtualization/emulation, is there going to be much demand in a year or two for Android tablets?

 

[apac]

No.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

You kidding? Hell no.

 

[luv2liv]

the only reason i wanted a tablet was because it can turn on instantly.

ever since i got my acer s7, i dont even bother with tablets! the ultrabook boots up under 3 seconds. plenty of space for HD movies. the i5 has no problem opening any files. no stupid transcoding/conversion. hooks up to the projector for movie nights via HDMI. it is razor thin, thinner than the old HP touchpad. touchscreen is awesome for some games and navigating around win8. oh, it is great for doing work too! the downside is that it weights 3 pounds and cost $1400.

so yeah, if baytrail can deliver the goods without costing a kidney, im sure it will do great!

 

[Bateluer]

Nothing Windows 8.x based will unseat Android, the public at large hates Windows 8 with an unbridled passion and Microsoft has been unable to move any Surface RT or Pro units. Sales of Windows 8 PCs in general have been sluggish, at best.

Remember, Android can use the Bay Trail parts too and Intel was pushing those more at IDF.

 

[Roland00Address]

You are going to see Windows 8 tablets focus on the 10 and 8 inch size.

You are going to see Android focus on the 7" size.

For a couple of reasons

1) The 7" size is focused on downward price pressure. The Amazon Kindle Fire (followed by the Nexus) caused people to associate small tablets with cheap tablets. Furthermore 7" tablets are cheaper to make for the screens are cheaper to produce, as well as requiring smaller batteries. People see 7" tablets as internet consumption, movie consumption, book reading, and games. Thus people see 7" tablets as toys and expect them to be priced as such.

Android is cheap to make with very low licensing costs. You are able to hit those price points with Android that you would not be able to hit with

2) A 7" size forces a redesign program to be effective in the space. You are not going to dock a keyboard or mouse with a 7" and make it a netbook. Android does not have backwards compatibility, so it isn't going to even to try to recreate the wheel instead the programs are going to always touch design instead of trying to take an old x86 program and tweak it. If the "baggage" of windows is not going to be useful, then get rid of it.

Windows brings nothing to the 7" space, while Android brings a lot to the 7" space with preexisting phone apps working well with touch being scaled up for the 7" tablet size.

----------------

1) 10" tablets on the other hand from quality brands (and not no name chinese tablets) have not done a race to the bottom. The oems do not want to do a price war ruining their margins and thus the price for 10" android tablets are already about $300 dollars

If the price is $300 dollars for an Android Tablet it is not a hard sale to get a person to buy a $350 or $400 Windows Tablet (I am ignoring all windows 8 tablets with 32gb of storage for 32gb of storage is dangerously close to the amount of storage you need to make windows work).

2) 10" tablets are the smallest size you can be "productive" with a tablet. You have enough space to write a document. 10" size means you can fit a normal usb port on a tablet if you are not obsessed with thinness. 10" tablet means you can have an "almost normal size" keyboard approaching 85 to 95% laptop key size. 10" tablet is actually large enough to do multi window and have something useful on each side of the tablet. 10" is big enough that a scaled up phone apps should be redesign to take advantage of the greater space. 10" is big enough you may want to use an internet browser instead of some form of dedicated app.

All of these things are things that leverage Windows real nicely. Windows advantage is that it works with peripherals. Windows can do true multitasking with snap. Windows 8 (since we are talking baytrail) works with all your old programs and as well as working with many new apps. Windows 8 works with flash (even though this is a less of a problem now a days) and normal desktop websites (some mobile websites are pure crap.)

Windows 8 has Word, Excel, Outlook, and Powerpoint (in that order of importance.) (hell many windows tablets are coming with a free version of word, excel, and powerpoint but not outlook)

----------------

8" tablets are going to be an interesting market for Windows. The way you use a tablet differs completely if you use a 7 or 10" tablet but an 8" tablet can blend those different styles of use and be a jack of all trades expert of none.

You are going to see many tablets that are android use baytrail as well, probably after christmas though.

 

[Bateluer]

2) A 7" size forces a redesign program to be effective in the space. You are not going to dock a keyboard or mouse with a 7" and make it a netbook. Android does not have backwards compatibility, so it isn't going to even to try to recreate the wheel instead the programs are going to always touch design instead of trying to take an old x86 program and tweak it. If the "baggage" of windows is not going to be useful, then get rid of it.

Not sure I follow you. Android 2.2 through 4.3 are all backwards compatible.

 

[Roland00Address]

Not sure I follow you. Android 2.2 through 4.3 are all backwards compatible.

It was a long sentence but at the end of the sentence I said backwards compatibility with x86 (the part you didn't highlight)

You are correct almost all android programs from 2 on work with Android 4 to 4.3. I even added to that point later on stating that "phone apps" scale well to the 7" size, phone apps were designed with touch in mind so they work better with the 7" platform.

 

[Bateluer]

It was a long sentence but at the end of the sentence I said backwards compatibility with x86 (the part you didn't highlight)

You are correct almost all android programs from 2 on work with Android 4 to 4.3. I even added to that point later on stating that "phone apps" scale well to the 7" size, phone apps were designed with touch in mind so they work better with the 7" platform.

Ah, now I follow you.

Should be noted though that Google's design guidelines are geared to be agnostic as possible, and an app for a ~5in phone scales just fine to 7, 8, and 10in tablets. Its one of those little myths that refuses to die no matter how many times its proven wrong.

So far, Microsoft has achieved no traction at all with Windows 8 tablets, either Pro or RT, and I don't see 8.1, which makes only token/minor changes, changing that downward spiral.

It'll be more interesting to see the splash Bay Trail, and Haswell, make in ChromeOS devices.

 

[lothar]

It was a long sentence but at the end of the sentence I said backwards compatibility with x86 (the part you didn't highlight)

You are correct almost all android programs from 2 on work with Android 4 to 4.3. I even added to that point later on stating that "phone apps" scale well to the 7" size, phone apps were designed with touch in mind so they work better with the 7" platform.

75% of all Android apps in the Market don't feature any native ARM code.
On the remaining 25%, Intel increases compatibility from 75% to 90% with "Binary Translation".

 

[Ravynmagi]

I know people hate Windows 8 on desktops, but Windows 8 shines for the most part on tablets. I think the main problem with Windows 8 tablets so far has been the hardware. Clover Trail was just too slow and limited us to 2GB and 1366x768. And Ivy Bridge isn't battery efficient enough and too expensive.

Bay Trail and Haswell-Y are going to make Windows tablets really awesome. Bay Trail supports up to 4GB of RAM and 2560x1600 resolution, so we should have some much more powerful tablets with better displays that are affordable like Android tablets. And Haswell-Y will give us powerful hybrid tablets with better battery life.

I think 2014 should be a pretty good year for Windows 8 tablets and hybrids.

Though I voted "both" in the poll because Windows is starting from pretty much no market share in tablets to speak of and Android has a gigantic market share. Windows 8 will do well, but Android isn't going anywhere any time soon.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Nothing Windows 8.x based will unseat Android, the public at large hates Windows 8 with an unbridled passion and Microsoft has been unable to move any Surface RT or Pro units. Sales of Windows 8 PCs in general have been sluggish, at best.

Remember, Android can use the Bay Trail parts too and Intel was pushing those more at IDF.

The only thing I see BT helping MS would be reducing $400 Win 8 craptops to $300, which would probably be the only Win 8 "mobile" line to sell in any decent quantity.

 

[sweenish]

Big fat no.

I just want to do Android stuff on a bigger screen sometimes. It's as simple as that.

I still think a device like the Surface Pro with Type cover is my next laptop, but my N7 will always have its place.

 

[corkyg]

I tend to agree with the no's in this case. This article has a very relevant sentence. http://mashable.com/2013/09/11/intel-bay-trail/

"Consumers are fickle, and you never get a second chance to make a first impression."

 

[podspi]

I tend to agree with the no's in this case. This article has a very relevant sentence. http://mashable.com/2013/09/11/intel-bay-trail/

"Consumers are fickle, and you never get a second chance to make a first impression."

If that were true, Android wouldn't be the dominant mobile OS right now. Jellybean is great, but 2.x was uh, pretty bad imho.

The Surface brand might be in trouble, though. Windows will be fine, the OS people love to love (Windows XP) people hated in the beginning. Consumers may be fickle, but they also have very, very short memories...


If everything we're hearing about these next-generation tablets are true, I see no reason to purchase any Android/iOS tablet/Chromebook. The Windows tablets will be the same price and more useful than anything else. Phones are a different story, and this is where I think Microsoft really dropped the ball. Windows Phone really needs apps, and it isn't going to gain at all from what will be (again, imho but we'll see) pretty decent uptake of Windows 8.1 tablets.

 

[dagamer34]

Show me a good Windows tablet and I'll give you an answer. I think it's pretty clear that Windows 8 was a year too early, not fully baked. Bay Trail, Haswell-Y, even Snapdragon 800 and Tegra 4 (yes, I am bringing up Windows RT) means we'll have some quality hardware options. As far as software goes, Windows 8.1/RT 8.1 is a far more complete Metro environment. It needs another revision and Metro Office to sever all dependencies from the desktop such that you should be able to never see it on a touch device.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Ah, now I follow you.

Should be noted though that Google's design guidelines are geared to be agnostic as possible, and an app for a ~5in phone scales just fine to 7, 8, and 10in tablets. Its one of those little myths that refuses to die no matter how many times its proven wrong.

So far, Microsoft has achieved no traction at all with Windows 8 tablets, either Pro or RT, and I don't see 8.1, which makes only token/minor changes, changing that downward spiral.

It'll be more interesting to see the splash Bay Trail, and Haswell, make in ChromeOS devices.

Incorrect. Nexus 10 owner here.

 

[Crono]

Bumping this thread just to see if anyone with a Bay Trail tablet can chime in on whether Windows 8.1 is good enough on it to appeal to the masses. I'm looking at getting a Venue 8 Pro soon, but was wondering if others are coming around as well. It definitely looks like it considering the recommendations I'm starting to see from others even in Off Topic, whereas with the original Surface and other tablets there wasn't a lot of interest or even awareness of product capabilities.

I have a 2013 Nexus 7 but after a few weeks I'm wishing I could do more with it. Part of that comes from the fact I already have an HTC One, so it's not really adding anything new to what I can run or do, though it's a better form factor for reading and browsing.

The initial pricing Intel put out there about $100 tablets must have applied to Android only, have yet to see or hear about any Windows ones close to that, so Android does have that in it's favor.

 

[bearxor]

I've had a Venue 8 Pro for a day and... I'm essentially ready to dump the iPad and switch to if full time. It's excellent. A great size and fast and fluid. I get to run full Windows apps. I even installed Steam to a mSD card and player some Burnout Paradise.

I wish it had a full-size USB port, cellular connectivity and 4GB of RAM. I'm considering the Venue 11 Pro, but think it might be too big.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

i think this depends entirely on how well bay trail performs. from what i hear, not very well. there are huge advantages to windows like easily printing, software and stability/having everything work as expected. on the other hand there a huge amount of hate for ms, and people dont want to go back to a ms software monoploy.

i think over the next year surface like i3 and i5 tablets windows tablets will start to replace notebooks and those $500 android arm tablets and apple and android will have to cum out with their own such intel tablets

 

[Joe1987]

I don't think so, there are reported to be a number of Android tabs ready to go for $50 this holiday season, there's no way Windows tablets will get that cheap or be able to compete in that price range.

 

[RandomFool]

Nothing Windows 8.x based will unseat Android, the public at large hates Windows 8 with an unbridled passion and Microsoft has been unable to move any Surface RT or Pro units. Sales of Windows 8 PCs in general have been sluggish, at best.

Remember, Android can use the Bay Trail parts too and Intel was pushing those more at IDF.

I'm pretty sure the public at large has no real passions towards any operating system. Windows 8 isn't doing amazing but it's also not as terrible as you seem to think.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I'm pretty sure the public at large has no real passions towards any operating system. Windows 8 isn't doing amazing but it's also not as terrible as you seem to think.

I actually replaced Win7 with Win8.1 and I've gotten used to it pretty quickly. I've also installed Iobit's Start Menu app which gives you the Win7 Start Menu and in desktop mode, it's pretty much Win7.

 

[lopri]

Unlikely. To add to it, I never understood some people talking as if Surface would have rocked had it run Atom or some other x86 chips that can run x86 legacy stuff. I mean, just think about the need to install anti-virus, anti-spyware, anti-spam program and having to run it background all the time. Someone will say s/he does not need it but I guarantee you that someone else will need one.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I have a 2013 Nexus 7 but after a few weeks I'm wishing I could do more with it. Part of that comes from the fact I already have an HTC One, so it's not really adding anything new to what I can run or do, though it's a better form factor for reading and browsing.

And gaming. 7 inches is the perfect size for portable gaming I think.

I am interested in a 8.1 tablet in a year or two when the kinks are worked out.