Are APG video cards still worth it?

[housecat]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Blade Bunny
How long do I have to wait until nForce 4 mobo's come out?

Right now $120 bones and chaintech rocks IMO. It aint no asus...but it aint $250 either.
http://www.newegg.com/app/view...=13-152-049&depa=0
My 754 cahintech board is overclcokers dream 315HTT stable and a steal it was at $62...

😀

I examined the 754 scene and besides a slightly good deal on the 3400+... I dont think its worth it, its not that great of a price to lose PCIE/S939.
If a 754 FX53 was $300 or something crazy, sure, I'd recommend it.
But I'm glad i took a look at 754 again. I've ruled it out for myself for good.

But seeing one day passby, and a $120 PCIE S939 board popup on Newegg.. Like I've been saying the OP would be making a poor choice doing otherwise.

That Chaintek looks like a nice board, its good to have more choices..

Going to wait till after Xmas though, mid Jan. Everything should be in stock, hopefully the SLI boards will be where they are supposed to be @200.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: housecat

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Blade Bunny
How long do I have to wait until nForce 4 mobo's come out?

Right now $120 bones and chaintech rocks IMO. It aint no asus...but it aint $250 either.
http://www.newegg.com/app/view...=13-152-049&depa=0
My 754 cahintech board is overclcokers dream 315HTT stable and a steal it was at $62...

😀

I examined the 754 scene and besides a slightly good deal on the 3400+... I dont think its worth it, its not that great of a price to lose PCIE/S939.
If a 754 FX53 was $300 or something crazy, sure, I'd recommend it.
But I'm glad i took a look at 754 again. I've ruled it out for myself for good.

But seeing one day passby, and a $120 PCIE S939 board popup on Newegg.. Like I've been saying the OP would be making a poor choice doing otherwise.

That Chaintek looks like a nice board, its good to have more choices..

Going to wait till after Xmas though, mid Jan. Everything should be in stock, hopefully the SLI boards will be where they are supposed to be @200.

I was'nt saying get 754...that's old sch00l. I have 939 setup now son's got the "old" 754. Now I'm looking for a PCIe card so I can get this chaintech🙂 Which i should have waited for in the first place but could'nt and got a 939 AGP board🙁...now I 'm stuck w/ a AGP 6800GT i probably can't even sell.


Did that make any sense? Probably not. Essentially with those highend AGP cards we are stuck depreciating faster than marion jones running from a drug testing facility which sucks. If we had PCIe cards it would hold it's value realtivly since everyones buying PCIe boards from now on and will have a place for our used cards...not so with AGP.

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

i'd wholeheartedly recommend it, esp if you have the firepower for it, which it appear you do.

Yeah, I already ordered one... Dell sent me a 1905FP by accident, so I am waiting on the replacement 2005FPW. I really kinda wanted to enjoy some widescreen gaming over the holidays, doesn't look like that is going to happen.

Counterstrike is great in WS.. its helped more than a few times. I have HL2 Collectors edition under the Xmas tree, the HL2 Demo runs good on my machine@960x600.. Doom3 (although not that good of a game) runs in WS as well through a config option, and looks good.
UT04 supports WS natively, other than those, Pirates! and Chessmaster 10 dont really apply.

I just recieved a dell axim X50 too, what a nice handheld. Dell may not be the best for a PC, but their prices are right.
I like the X50 so much I'm thinking about sending the x50 back for a x50v (640x480 res).

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: housecat

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Blade Bunny
How long do I have to wait until nForce 4 mobo's come out?

Right now $120 bones and chaintech rocks IMO. It aint no asus...but it aint $250 either.
http://www.newegg.com/app/view...=13-152-049&depa=0
My 754 cahintech board is overclcokers dream 315HTT stable and a steal it was at $62...

😀

I examined the 754 scene and besides a slightly good deal on the 3400+... I dont think its worth it, its not that great of a price to lose PCIE/S939.
If a 754 FX53 was $300 or something crazy, sure, I'd recommend it.
But I'm glad i took a look at 754 again. I've ruled it out for myself for good.

But seeing one day passby, and a $120 PCIE S939 board popup on Newegg.. Like I've been saying the OP would be making a poor choice doing otherwise.

That Chaintek looks like a nice board, its good to have more choices..

Going to wait till after Xmas though, mid Jan. Everything should be in stock, hopefully the SLI boards will be where they are supposed to be @200.

I was'nt saying get 754...that's old sch00l. I have 939 setup now son's got the "old" 754. Now I'm looking for a PCIe card so I can get this chaintech🙂 Which i should have waited for in the first place but could'nt and got a 939 AGP board🙁...now I 'm stuck w/ a AGP 6800GT i probably can't even sell.


Did that make any sense? Probably not. Essentially with those highend AGP cards we are stuck depreciating faster than marion jones running from a drug testing facility which sucks. If we had PCIe cards it would hold it's value realtivly since everyones buying PCIe boards from now on and will have a place for our used cards...not so with AGP.

Sorry I was replying in a way to nitromullet. He was partially advocating for the 754 route still, i told him I'd take a look into it (if not for my own usage possibly).

Im sure theres plenty here who would love to have your agp 6800gt. ppl here will try to steal it though.

i ebay all my video cards, they seem to always go for way more than they are worth there.

 

[Philippine Mango]

Originally posted by: housecat
So how much are PCI cards bringing these days?

AGP is quickly going the way of the dodo, like PCI video.

Originally posted by: housecat
You're talking about some very low end cards. How much is that 5900 PCI? Or 6800 PCI?

Few people are going to buy either one. Point is, those PCI cards are all low end for a reason.. no one wants them. No one wants a 6800GT PCI card, because if you have the money you will have a AGP (or now, PCIE) system to get the top cards that are only available in the newest form factor.

It wont be long till AGP is in the same situation as PCI. Intel has had PCIE for nearly a year now, and the NF4 SLI is out for AMD. Soon NF4 SLI will be available for Intel too.

Face it, its over
If you have a fast Intel or A64 system with AGP, go ahead. Otherwise you're really doing yourself a disservice.
I say put your money where your mouth is, buy up all the AGP cards and sell them later at those super high prices of $100. 😀

See what no one realizes is that it won't matter if they start making more and more video cards for the PCI express bus because they still do make highend PCI video cards. Now the motivation to get an AGP Video card (before pci express) was much higher is because any new video card these days can suck up all the bandwidth of the pci bus no problem. But that is not so in the case of agp, still we are having trouble even reaching 1GB/s of bandwidth let alone 2gb! And now that PCI express is around, its up to 4GB/s of bandwidth!

If we barely use up the 1GB bandwidth of 4X agp, whats the motivation of getting a PCI express based system? The current boards in PCI express systems are just too slow and have no benefits, agp based systems are still performance king. So by the time the AGP bus starts becoming as much of a bottle neck as the PCI bus is and yet they are STILL making PCI boards, then you can switch to a PCI Express solution AND by then the boards will not only have matured but would be significantly faster.

Its like the case of people who bought high end pentium IIIs back in 2000/2001 and were wondering if they should opt for a pentium 4 system, while most would say get the pentium 4 system despite poor performance, It would make more sense to get the high end pIII system because they were the performance king. And by the time the high end PIIIs became slow to the point you can't play new games, then you could get a mid life cycle p4 (2GHZ+) which is still good today. If your going to build a system and the socket 939 processor's reliability doesn't bother you or your willing to wait for the last 939 stable board with agp, then get it! The 939 processors are killer fast and will help extend agp's life because the processor will less likely be the bottle neck and hopefully become equally the bottle neck.

As a rule, you never want to get a 1st generation board/device of anything because they have too many issues.

 

[drpootums]

UGHHHHH!!! The 3rd time i've repeated it, electronics do NOT hold value!!! I know selling a AGP 6800GT next year wont fetch you very much money, but selling a PCIe version next year wont fetch you much more! Guns, houses, and real estate are the only things i know of that really hold their value (or raise it)

And also as i've said before, AGP cards will be around well into '06. It would almost be economical suicide for ATi or nVidia to stop making AGP cards, as the 5% of the people that currently have PCIe (probably 99% of them Dell owners) would be their only customers (and a lot of dell owners dont know the first thing about video cards).

And another thing. The rig i have in my sig was $1300. 3400+, DFI Lanparty, 6800GT, 1 GB ram, etc. I want you to give me a PCIe skt939 setup (with the Zalman, Tsunami, Asus DVD rom drive, floppy drive, HDD, and the Fortron in my sig which are about $345 totalled up) that performs better than what i have without overclocking. I want to see if you can do it. You have $955 to buy me:

-CPU
-Mobo
-Video card
-Ram (1 GB please)

And get the same or more performance that i'm getting now.

And to respond to housecat, i am in high school (freshman accually) and money is important to me. That petty $150 premium is WAY out of budget!

 

[Zebo]

UGHHHHH!!! The 3rd time i've repeated it, electronics do NOT hold value!!!

We are talking realtive here.

Right now, I could sell my 6800GT AGP for ~$300max, I could sell a 6800GT PCIe for $500.

This disparity will only get worse over time because people are PCIeing it or looking to PCIe instead of AGP.🙂 Eventually an AGP card won't be worth squat cause no1 has a board to put it in...maybe two years? I bet you can still fetch $100 for a PCIe 6800GT in two years

Same goes for PATA vs SATA resale, LCD mon w and w/o DSUB etc

 

[housecat]

lol in HS shouldnt your money be going to beer/weed? kidding. dont do illegal things.

is there a crunch on the grocerystore jobs or something? $150 in "my day" in HS was probably a weeks salary(!!!), but worth PCIE/S939 support (i know most like to go with that S754 3400+).

if ppl think thats the more economical way to go (754/agp over 939/sli), then go for it. my strong reaction was because I find that rather proposterous as of 12/25/04.. maybe not 6months ago.

 

[Jeffyboy]

Pretty soon PCIe cards will be extremely cheap... it'll be the AGP cards that will be expensive and hard to find yet still perform good for most softwares...already you find AGP cards usually are a little more money.

Jeff

 

[nitromullet]

Right now, I could sell my 6800GT AGP for ~$300max, I could sell a 6800GT PCIe for $500.

That is because of availability (or lack thereof). If the availability of high end PCIe cards stays as it is now, it won't become much of a standard. That isn't going to happen, but neither are you going to be able to sell your PCIe 6800GT for $500 a year from now.

 

[Static EMP]

Originally posted by: SRoode
I'd stay away from APG cards...

AGP cards on the other hand are okay! 🙂

i know this is about a week old but i just saw it and mus say thats hilarious

 

[drpootums]

Originally posted by: housecat
lol in HS shouldnt your money be going to beer/weed? kidding. dont do illegal things.

is there a crunch on the grocerystore jobs or something? $150 in "my day" in HS was probably a weeks salary(!!!), but worth PCIE/S939 support (i know most like to go with that S754 3400+).

if ppl think thats the more economical way to go (754/agp over 939/sli), then go for it. my strong reaction was because I find that rather proposterous as of 12/25/04.. maybe not 6months ago.

Sorry, but at 15 it's hard to get a job when you have school, you cant drive, and the nearest "grocery store" is 10 miles away. My parents dont really want to drive me there and back every day.

And even working 1 week for $150 in "your day" seems dumb if you could save that money as i've said and just get a watercooling setup with a BFG 6800 ultra w/ water block.


For Zebo, i'm not talking about right now with a shortage of PCIe cards. Think in 1 year from now, your PCIe card is going to fetch possibly $10-20 more than my AGP card tops. Doesnt sound like much of a huge resale advantage does it?


And one last thing, my last question was if you could get a cpu, mobo, video card, and a GB of ram for $955 that will outperform and have more features than my 3400+ nc, 6800GT, DFI Lanparty nF3 board, and PDP Patriot pc3200 (2-3-2-5 latency) gig of ram without overclocking...and i dont care about future upgrading possiblilites.
So, if i was on a budget and $150 seemed like a lot more money that i wanted to spend, what would you have me buy for $955 that would outperform what i have now?

 

[housecat]

your harassing kid. and thats a loaded (stupid) question.

let me say this though, and this is a better way too look at it, and i hate to put it this bluntly.. but,
if $150 is alot of money to you, you are a complete and utter fool to be buying a non-upgradable PC for $1000.


sure, you MIGHT be able to upgrade that video card (but probably not to far beyond this generation).. but you have about two chances to upgrading your 754 processor (slim to none).

who in there right mind, who $150 is alot of money too... builds a nonupgradable system? do you realize that if you need, or want a faster system you are completely screwed?

you are stuck with a 3400+ 754 and a 6800gt.. you'll be lucky to get the next generation of video cards in AGP. beyond that i'd wager you wont find anymore made, besides possibly some cheaper, or budget lines.


its your gamble, for $150...

sound borderline retarded? yes, it is. the cost of upgrade could be drastically more for not going that route.

or you could have had a system where your CPU is actually upgradable beyond the future "sempron", or whatever crap 754 is going to inherit.. and you'd have access FOR SURE to the new GPUs.. and maybe even SLI if you went that route.

since money is tight, now when you need an upgrade you'll be spending $150 at least in whatever it costs for an upgradable PCIE motherboard with S939 to replace your current motherboard, CPU, and video card.


and you might get into a real pinch if you want a new video card, they dont produce the one you want any longer in AGP.. so then you buy a new motherboard for PCIE and your processor is scrapped to the junkpile because its only available in S939. And then you just scrapped your motherboard and CPU (whatever that cost you, but since it was SOOOOO cheap it wont bother you right? Oh wait, $150 is alot of money to you)

or you want a CPU upgrade and you have to scrap your video card/motherboard, just to get a faster CPU.


In technology, there is no possible arguement where going with outgoing technology than new technology. I get a kick out of ppl that are "scared" to be a "first adopter" of PCI Express on AMD. Are there alot of horror stories out there for pci express or something?

Well, you have your $150 now.
Funny thing is, the guy out there with the S939/PCIE rig isnt worrying about anything, he is set for the future. You dont know how long AGP will be supported, or where a CPU upgrade is coming from.

Or if you want to upgrade one or the other, crossing your fingers that they produce a 754 motherboard with PCIE support. You are already out of luck on the CPU upgrade path... and the near future is calling your AGP motherboard.

You have an axis of parts with something to be concerned about, a motherboard with BOTH socket 754 and AGP, which really sucks. A video card that is AGP.. not bad.. but not good either. And a s754 CPU, which sucks for upgradability today.




Any one of these parts will eat up the $150 you saved, just to replace one, then you might end up replacing one or more of the other parts to work with the first part replaced!
So I guess you'd better HOPE that you are satisfied with this system in its entirety until you are ready to replace the whole shebang.

 

[HardWarrior]

Man, I haven't seen someone this HYPED on marketing BS in a long while. :laugh:

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Man, I haven't seen someone this HYPED on marketing BS in a long while. :laugh:

Unfortunately it just proves that Marketing Departments actually can reach some consumers.


As the newest game engines (Far Cry, Half-Life 2, Doom III) have JUST been released and current AGP hardware has NO problem running them at high resolutions with high AA/AF, it'll be quite a while yet before they become obsolete. Not to mention the fact that there's at least one more round of AGP using Nvidia's next core design. And I would be very surprised if ATI didn't release AGP boards for their next core (or two).

HardOCP HL2 Benchmark

Anandtech HL2 Benchmark

6800 Ultra vs X800XT PE in various benches

 

[HardWarrior]

Yup, and here I was thinking that nearly everyone was as much of a hard ass as I am about maketing an knowing the trend in games. I mentioned some of the same things that you did early on Creig, and housecat just keeps chugging along. "PCI-e is the ONLY way to go!!! s939 is to die for!!! Buy now!!!" 🙂

 

[Creig]

I'm all about the best value for the best performance which means not buying everything on the bleeding edge, but mixing it up a bit with 2nd line components.

My current DFI LanParty A, AMD 2500+ @ 2.5GHz, ATI 9500 NP @ 9700+ speeds & gig of BH-5 Mushkin has been running CS:S, HL2 & Far Cry silky smooth. I keep wanting to upgrade to something a bit newer but can't bring myself to do it as my current configuration has kept up with everything I've thrown at it.

If a fantastic deal comes along on either a mobo/CPU combo or video card then I'll jump at it. But I can't justify upgrading right now when it's doing everything I ask it to do.

 

[SRoode]

Heads up SRoode: Chumbo has the BFG 6800GT OC PCI-e in stock for $399 w/ free overnight shipping.

Hi Dethfrumbelo,

Thanks again! The cards came today, and I finally got everything hooked up. First run, with no OCing, and no watercooling yet...

8690 in 3dMark05.

It actually runs smoothly! My old rig was a P4 2.8 and a 5900 flashed to a 5950... I got 972! It was like watching a slide show.

Now... On to completing the install... Tweaking... Then some serious gaming!!!!

Thanks again!