Are APG video cards still worth it?

[housecat]

But it will continue to offer high-end AGP 8x parts right through Q1 2005.

Thats not good at all. Q1 '05? We're about there!


Remember too, as time passes the AGP will be the expensive ones.. because all OEMs will be using PCIE... most enthusiasts will be using PCIE... who's going to want AGP? Those with older fast systems (754/SktA), and then only those who dont have processors that cant be put into PCIE boards. The premium will be on AGP cards and not PCIE with the OEMs forcing the graphics companies to make the vast majority of their cards for PCIE. Hence AGP will surely become a hassle, cost will rise to make it worth their time.. or they could plummet because it will be your last AGP video card they plan on producing.

Either way, if you have $1,500 its not even worth talking about. There is no feasible reason to not get a PCIE system. $50 premium on a video card???? $100 premium on a motherboard?????? To worry about that IMO is borderline retarded.
Both premiums BTW will be gone soon, especially the motherboard premium we're seeing on the NF4 SLI. More manufacturers are working right now to get them out the door and Asus/MSI are working on production right now.


Moral of the story is, building AGP now is a losing bet. And you know that, everyone does.
Building a PCIE system now is a winning bet.

And all these people would be secretly envious if you had SLI, because if they are recommending AGP.. they probably dont have SLI nor PCIE.
But I bet they wouldnt spend $1,500 of their own money on a AGP based system. I'd like to see them put their money where their mouth is.

My plan is to buy a NF4 SLI board when Newegg gets them in stock, at that point everything should be stabilized (newegg seems to be taking their time getting in the NF4, probably because they know it wont be in mass supply till after Xmas).

 

[Blade Bunny]

How long do I have to wait until nForce 4 mobo's come out?

 

[housecat]

You can find them now. But they cost about $100 more than they should. Like I said, its worth it. And the premium we see now varies from $20-$100 depending on what brand NF4. You've got to look harder.
I think Newegg should have them shortly, and when they do will be a good general time to pickup your equipment. I think currently they are refusing to put them on their site until they know they can get a steady stream of them coming in.

I'm going with: Asus A8N Deluxe SLI or MSI SLI, A64 3000+, 6800GT PCIE, Antec Neopower, Antec Super Lanboy and a new DVD burner. The rest of the parts I'm reusing. Should come around to about $1200 even at todays inflated prices.

 

[Spike]

Originally posted by: housecat
And all these people would be secretly envious if you had SLI, because if they are recommending AGP.. they probably dont have SLI nor PCIE.
But I bet they wouldnt spend $1,500 of their own money on a AGP based system. I'd like to see them put their money where their mouth is.

I just did put my money where my mouth is... I bought a $400 AGP graphics card instead of spending $600 (which I did have) to get a new CPU/Mobo with PCIe. I made that as an educated decision based on benchmarks and reviews.

As for that rediculous first quarter '05 statment... what company in their right mind is going to produce only PCIe cards when AGP still owns a VAST majority of the market? Might as well file for chapter 11 right then and there.

Bottom line is AGP is here for a long time to come, just like IDE even after over 2 years of SATA being out.

And yes, if we all had $1500 to spend on a new comp and we were focusing on the absolute fastest performance, we would get PCIe. Personally if I had that much right now I would get a nice monitor and speakers ($800 for Dell 2005 FPW and Logitech Z5500's) and spend the remaining $700 on a AGP setup.

-spike

 

[Blade Bunny]

I think I'll stick to AGP because I don't want to wait.

 

[zerocool84]

just a question, is there any way for a motherboard to have AGP and PCIE???? its a question ive been throwing around for a little bit. i know that they are entirely diff kinda bus and it prolly woldnt be cost effective for any manufacturer but maybe, just maybe, they are ABLE to do it. not that they will but have the ABILITY to do it

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
just a question, is there any way for a motherboard to have AGP and PCIE???? its a question ive been throwing around for a little bit. i know that they are entirely diff kinda bus and it prolly woldnt be cost effective for any manufacturer but maybe, just maybe, they are ABLE to do it. not that they will but have the ABILITY to do it

yes, Via is releasing motherboard chipset with both AGP and PCIe. It would be wise to wait on Via. Prices on all chipsets will be lower and better stepping 939 Winchester chips should be available by then.

 

[housecat]

And yes, if we all had $1500 to spend on a new comp and we were focusing on the absolute fastest performance, we would get PCIe.

Thank you. That is the entire crux of this man's plea for advice.
He has $1500.
He needs a whole new system.
You agree with me.
Your point?



If you would have actually read the thread, you would have seen that if someone has a fast machine, a AGP card now is not a bad buy. And that if you are BUILDING a new PC now that you should go PCIE. In fact, I made that VERY clear.

I should say this so its clear for everyone.

BUYING a AGP card now, for a fast AGP based system is NOT a bad choice.

BUILDING a AGP SYSTEM right now, is a bad choice.

But since you didnt read before you posted you look foolish.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: Naustica

Originally posted by: zerocool84
just a question, is there any way for a motherboard to have AGP and PCIE???? its a question ive been throwing around for a little bit. i know that they are entirely diff kinda bus and it prolly woldnt be cost effective for any manufacturer but maybe, just maybe, they are ABLE to do it. not that they will but have the ABILITY to do it

yes, Via is releasing motherboard chipset with both AGP and PCIe. It would be wise to wait on Via. Prices on all chipsets will be lower and better stepping 939 Winchester chips should be available by then.

o ok good so i can upgrade sooner than later and not having to worry about buying a new video card

 

[Blade Bunny]

Yes I did read every post housecat.

 

[housecat]

No that was directed at Spike. Not yourself Blade. Sorry for confusion.

 

[drpootums]

Unless i want to drop 2000+ i probably would just go AGP

If ur gunna spend $1500 or so, i'd just go with my setup in my sig, but get a bigger case, get a lot of quiet but efficient fans, put watercooling on everything, buy a BFG 6800 Ultra w/ water block, and add a DVD burner!

That would give you plenty of performance, stay much cooler, and oc like a %^$*@!!!

 

[nitromullet]

All grafix card smanufacturers have clearly declared that AGP is dying and if not in 6 monhts, in 1 year there wont be any cards coming out for it at all.

...Try selling the 450$ 6800GT AGP in 1 years time, and tell me how much its gona fetch...

Actually, by your logic, the demand for used AGP cards will be quite high. People that buy used eqipment, generally aren't going for the latest tech, but the best value. In a year's time, AGP will still be the best value, so if the manufacturers aren't making them anymore, who will they buy them from? That's right, they wil buy used ones... Of course, I don't think that your logic is correct, and AGP cards will still be in high availability in a year. It is arguable, however, that the next generation's top-of-the-line cards my not be available in AGP...

That being said, for around $1500 for a complete system, AGP isn't a bad bet. If you were to exceed $2000 than I would go PCIe. The trade off here is getting the best bang for your $1500 as opposed to looking towards the future. So the real question is how often does the OP upgrade the entire system as opposed to how often he gets a video card. If he generally waits to upgrade the entire system, then a socket 754 AGP setup will get him higher performance for his money. On the otherhand, if he generally replaces the video card once or twice during the lifetime of the system, then PCIe would probably be the better option. What I would advise against is a socket 939 AGP system because that increases your cost for the cpu and mobo, while still not allowing for as much flexibility with the video card. Socket 939 on AGP at the moment is the worst of both worlds. I assume that mobo makers realize that the vast majority of consumers will draw this conclusion as well based on the somewhat limited number of options available for socket 939 with AGP (11 available at newegg) compared to socket 754 (52 available at newegg).

You really have to consider the total system cost vs performance as well as upgrade habits, not just PCIe vs AGP.

 

[housecat]

So how much are PCI cards bringing these days?

AGP is quickly going the way of the dodo, like PCI video.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: housecat
So how much are PCI cards bringing these days?

AGP is quickly going the way of the dodo, like PCI video.

:laugh: Totally, but the change is sure slower than most expected, all companies seem to be having problems getting new tech out the door.

 

[ponyo]

Radeon 9100 PCI has actually increased in value in the past year due to the rarity. About year and half ago I bought 9100 AGP card for $60 new. 9100 PCI was also $60 new. Now 9100 AGP is around $35-40 and 9100 PCI is over $100.

 

[batmanuel]

There are a LOT of good deals on midrange PCIe cards, though. The 6600GT is significantly cheaper in PCIe format than AGP. If you are looking at ATi, a X700 Pro PCIe is also a tad bit cheaper than the slower 9800 Pro AGP card. A 12-pipe X800NP is also slated to come out around $200 sometime in the future as well.

If you are buying new and going midrange on your graphics to start out with, PCIe is worth waiting for as you can get a good deal on a midrange card now and have the headroom to upgrade for many years to come. Also, don't forget that even though PCIe is only out in graphics cards now, there are surely a lot of nice new sound, network and TV tuner cards in the works for the x1 slots that also come on the PCIe mobos. Standard PCI is okay for now, but the next generation of add-in cards with HD audio, HD video and gigabit ethernet capability are going to severely bottleneck the current PCI bus. If you wait for a few months for the AMD PCIe solutions to arrive from VIA and nVidia, I'm sure the little bit extra you pay will be worth it in the long run if it gives your system a bit more of a lifespan.

Almost two years ago, I paid a premium to get a A7N8X-Deluxe because I wanted the advanced features it offered. At the time I bought the system I didn't need AGP 8X, SATA, dual channel DDR400 support or Soundstorm. Over time, those extra features have come in handy and helped me prolong the life of the system. When I eventually retire it as a desktop system, the soundstorm and SATA RAID will come in handy if I want to turn it into a nice little HTPC/PVR box. Sometimes it pays to invest in the newer technology rather than save some cash by buying the old.

 

[Okazaki Fragmenter]

Well if they make an AGP version of this card, then an AGP motherboard would definitely seem like a good option for now.

fvboundy posted this link at the bleedin edge forums.

 

[MustangSVT]

APG video cards are NOT worth shit..

there are no known mobo with an APG SLOT..!

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: MustangSVT
APG video cards are NOT worth shit..

there are no known mobo with an APG SLOT..!

This computer has one... and it's an "ElitePC", so there...

http://www.elitepc.com/pages/E-4600.asp

...advanced features such as DDR 333MHz memory, built in LAN, and both an APG slot and integrated grahpics...

This mobo has one too, for "greater flexibility" even...

http://www.i-store.com.au/clea...ProductID=1915&p=1

intergraded Sound & video display but has a APG slot for greater flexibility

While we're at it, check out TechSpot's coverage of nVidia's new PCI-X graphics cards...

http://www.techspot.com/story11138.html

Nothing too exciting here seeing that these seem to be the same current chips with a PCI-X bridge handling the transition from the AGP port.

I'd have to disagree with them, I would think that finally getting to play first person shooters on the company's data ceter servers might be big news to alot of NOC technicians.

 

[johnsquare]

go with what you need now... the future of technology is soooo fast that components are "phased-out" or not new in just a few months... PCI-e will be here for quite a while... but buying another set of PCI_e compatible mobos after a year or so will not really be a big deal....

Go for AGP if ur on a budget.. go for PCI-e if you have the money...

 

[imported_Computer MAn]

Originally posted by: housecat
So how much are PCI cards bringing these days?

AGP is quickly going the way of the dodo, like PCI video.

I just checked Newegg and the AGP version of the 9200 sells for $50-80 and the PCI version sells for around $100 so a PCI card is more expensive than an AGP one

 

[housecat]

You're talking about some very low end cards. How much is that 5900 PCI? Or 6800 PCI?

Few people are going to buy either one. Point is, those PCI cards are all low end for a reason.. no one wants them. No one wants a 6800GT PCI card, because if you have the money you will have a AGP (or now, PCIE) system to get the top cards that are only available in the newest form factor.

It wont be long till AGP is in the same situation as PCI. Intel has had PCIE for nearly a year now, and the NF4 SLI is out for AMD. Soon NF4 SLI will be available for Intel too.

Face it, its over
If you have a fast Intel or A64 system with AGP, go ahead. Otherwise you're really doing yourself a disservice.
I say put your money where your mouth is, buy up all the AGP cards and sell them later at those super high prices of $100.

 

[kmmatney]

" and the NF4 SLI is out for AMD. Soon NF4 SLI will be available for Intel too..."

Where can you get an NF4 motherboard?

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: kmmatney
" and the NF4 SLI is out for AMD. Soon NF4 SLI will be available for Intel too..."

Where can you get an NF4 motherboard?

...not to mention the fact that nVidia doesn't make chipsets for Intel...

I'm not saying that housecat is wrong or that PCIe/SLI won't be part of my next purchase a year from now, but I think that you have to take more into consideration, such as the specific user's needs. Just repeating "AGP is dead" is not really a compelling argument.

I say put your money where your mouth is, buy up all the AGP cards and sell them later at those super high prices of $100.

Likewise, have fun recouping the loss on your price gouged, not available yet hardware that will give you the same performance of the card I bought in July. Either that, or you can pay through the nose for two GT's or Ultra's.