Demon-Xanth
Lifer
Ahh, from roughly the same part of my example stating "women aren't allowed to talk in church".
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Are all these verses actually in the bible?
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Ahh, from roughly the same part of my example stating "women aren't allowed to talk in church".
engineereeyore
Platinum Member
No problem. Romans and 1st Corinthian were epistles written by Paul to the people in those respective areas. Jude was written by Jude.
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
Other fun parts about 1 Cor
6:7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already.
Proves lawsuits=we're screwed.
7:10-11 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
Women may divorce men but can't remarry, and men cannot divorce at all.
Does this mean that lawyers are sinners, as are women who remarry after a divorce, as well as all men who ask for a divorce?
6:7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already.
Proves lawsuits=we're screwed.
7:10-11 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
Women may divorce men but can't remarry, and men cannot divorce at all.
Does this mean that lawyers are sinners, as are women who remarry after a divorce, as well as all men who ask for a divorce?
I would say that not everything of the Old Testament was done away with since Jesus came. Jesus said "I come not to destroy the law but to fulfill it." Throughout the New Testament there are two particular areas of the moral law that remain in effect: laws against sexual sin and laws against anger and hatred. Jesus, in the sermon on the mount, talked about those two items: "anyone who lusts in his heart is guilty of adultery, and anyone who is angry with a brother in his heart is guilty of murder." The apostle Paul writes about the same two things--Christians uphold sexual purity and are against anger and hatred. That helps define what love means--gives it some boundaries.
What was done away with in the OT were not the moral laws (10 Commandments) but the cultic laws about animal sacrifice and dietary rules, and Temple worship, etc.. Jesus said, "It's not what goes into your mouth that causes you to sin (thus, eliminating dietary rules) but what comes out of your heart." The moral law is still valid until the end of time and the coming of the kingdom, when heaven and earth shall be one.
What was done away with in the OT were not the moral laws (10 Commandments) but the cultic laws about animal sacrifice and dietary rules, and Temple worship, etc.. Jesus said, "It's not what goes into your mouth that causes you to sin (thus, eliminating dietary rules) but what comes out of your heart." The moral law is still valid until the end of time and the coming of the kingdom, when heaven and earth shall be one.
Quotes taken out of historical and literary context are just stupid. I could probably selectively quote from the U.S. Constitution to make some dicey comments...
"After all, I just proved that women aren't allowed to speak in church, if you rape someone you have to marry them, and virgins are booty. Because it says so in the bible."
Context:
1. Paul's reprimand to one particular church which had issues with women disrupting worship
2. Jewish law from old, old times
3. I'm not even going to comment about selective quoting.
"the entire bible (old and new testament) are full of modifications. who knows what's in there is correct or not"
You know what? I'm a Biological Anthropology major and the evolutionary tree has been modified more times than I can count on my fingers and toes. Currently, the consensus is that we are NOT descended from apes, chimps or orangutans, and we diverged from a common ancestor ~5-6 million years ago as hominins. I find it amusing that many people have such "faith" in evolutionary theory. If Christians changed their views so drastically all the time...
Oh, and let me re-emphasize this point: According to evolutionary theory, we are NOT descended from apes, chimps, orangutans, and CERTAINLY not monkeys. My criticisms go both to proponents of evolution who have no bloody idea what they're talking about and to fundamentalist Christians who give the rest of us a bad name for their ignorance and overly-literal interpretation (can you even call it interpretation, when you take it at face value?) of the Bible.
*Leaves and puts flame-retardant firewall on his internet connection*
"After all, I just proved that women aren't allowed to speak in church, if you rape someone you have to marry them, and virgins are booty. Because it says so in the bible."
Context:
1. Paul's reprimand to one particular church which had issues with women disrupting worship
2. Jewish law from old, old times
3. I'm not even going to comment about selective quoting.
"the entire bible (old and new testament) are full of modifications. who knows what's in there is correct or not"
You know what? I'm a Biological Anthropology major and the evolutionary tree has been modified more times than I can count on my fingers and toes. Currently, the consensus is that we are NOT descended from apes, chimps or orangutans, and we diverged from a common ancestor ~5-6 million years ago as hominins. I find it amusing that many people have such "faith" in evolutionary theory. If Christians changed their views so drastically all the time...
Oh, and let me re-emphasize this point: According to evolutionary theory, we are NOT descended from apes, chimps, orangutans, and CERTAINLY not monkeys. My criticisms go both to proponents of evolution who have no bloody idea what they're talking about and to fundamentalist Christians who give the rest of us a bad name for their ignorance and overly-literal interpretation (can you even call it interpretation, when you take it at face value?) of the Bible.
*Leaves and puts flame-retardant firewall on his internet connection*
For reference, if you're looking for a better understanding of why murder would still be sinful, take a closer look at the fundamental idea behind the "New Covenant," which essentially is the new agreement with God laid out through Jesus' teachings (commandments). The 10 commandments ARE incorporated into Jesus' teaching and, as such, are included in the "New Covenant" with God, and we should strive to follow them.
Jesus' Commandments
Another Look
That said, I am Lutheran and one of the tenets of Lutheran theology is being saved by God's grace alone. Through my faith in God and in Jesus, I gain the grace of God's forgiveness for all my sins. I will never claim to be perfect, I have had many "un-Christian" moments, but I will continue to try and better myself despite those short-comings.
Matthew 22:36-40 36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'(a) 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'(b) 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
(a) Matthew 22:37 references Deut. 6:5
(b) Matthew 22:39 references Lev. 19:18
GagHalfrunt
Lifer
Nope, making you bible-thumpers look like idiots for picking and choosing your own prejudices and then calling them a religion to justify your hatred of yourselves and others isn't work at all. YOU clowns take care of the hard part, I just point out that none of you actually believe in the bible, only in the parts of it that reinforce your own beliefs.
mercanucaribe
Banned
Are you sure you aren't going for a BS in Creation of Straw Apes For The Sake of Being Contrary?
engineereeyore
Platinum Member
It is simply meant as a message of encouragement to try to work things out between each other rather than taking things to trial. And, if possible, even if one party is unwilling to work together, the other party should, when possible, let it go and know that all will be settled at a latter time. I think the world could benefit greatly from this advice.
Since Paul is commenting on what the Lord has said, why don't you look at exactly what he did say.
Matt. 19:9 : And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
There are legitimate reasons and causes for divorce, but they are few. Again, a lesson I think the world could greatly learn from.
Not the way I see it.
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
Because you're putting things IN context 🙂
SoulAssassin
Diamond Member
Cerpin Taxt
Lifer
It is worth noting that preconceived ideologies have contorted the translations of the original epistles as they appear in the versions of the Bible popular today.
http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/section04.html
http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/section07.html
http://www.libchrist.com/other/homosexual/sodom.html
meltdown75
Lifer
For the tenth time, I'm not a bible thumper, you sack of ******.
engineereeyore
Platinum Member
Those were funny. Thanks.
Cerpin Taxt
Lifer
We can debate the merits of those interpretations if you want. I was merely offering a different perspective for Zysoclapelm and leaving it to him to make up his own mind.
engineereeyore
Platinum Member
That's fine. I was merely commenting that I thought they were funny. As you said, Zysoclapelm can make up his own mind.
Mo0o
Lifer
Um... anyone who actually understands evolutionary theory would know that we didn't come from ape but that man and ape had a common ancestor. This was pretty much established since Darwin.
And scientists never, NEVER, claim to know the absolute truth. Science is an ever evolving process to establish a coherent view of the world with adequate predictive ability. Religion claims to have THE truth. Theres no theory of the virgin birth or hypothesis of the resurrection. There is only absolute fact, so as you can imagine it makes me a little wary when people are willing cast Galileo as a heretic in one era will turn a round and say "oh yeah, oops, looks like we 'read the bible wrong' " in another.
I don't view evolution and religion as mutually exclusive or contrary; rather, I view them as two sides of the same coin. One is man's best attempt to explain our origins and the other is God's proclamation that He is Creator - but nowhere in the Bible does it say that evolution or instant creation is the correct explanation - the actual methods of creation and timeline is ambiguous. Thus for me whether evolution or creationism is correct is irrelevant to my faith, because all that matters is I believe it was God's hand at work. My personal opinion doesn't matter.
The arguments above would be a straw man (or ape, as you humorously put it) if it didn't reflect the actual ignorance of many would-be proponents of evolution. The criticism about not understanding the concept of a common ancestor applies both to Fundies AND to the previously mentioned ignorants (although certainly Fundies are a prime target because of their humorously irrational insistence on adhering to strictly literal interpretation). While Biology and Bio-anthro majors certainly don't make this common mistake, I see/hear it all the time with those less educated in the life sciences/anthropology disciplines. Referring to apes as our ancestors is an ignorant and immediately inflammatory thing to do...
My main criticism was still that people who "believe" (not just intellectually) in evolution are taking a leap of "faith" - the same thing they hypocritically accuse Christians of doing. Hypocrisy goes both ways, and I've yet to see someone who hasn't acted hypocritically at some point. Same goes for sin - we're all sinners and if some Christian is acting like s/he is perfect do him/her a favor and tell them they're sinners as well. The difference of course is that Christians are supposed to have renounced their sinful ways and earnestly try to follow the teachings of Jesus in reforming their lives. Some of them certainly don't fit that description and are rightly called hypocrites. Fundies view their churches as fortresses against the "evil" world. I view churches as hospitals for the sick.
That's exactly the point I was making - those of us well-educated in the scientific disciplines will certainly not make this mistake. But we're not that significant a percentage in the general population. I don't know if a survey on evolutionary understanding has been done, but I would bet that 9/10 Americans wouldn't "pass the test".
I'm not talking about scientists making ignorant statements. I'm talking about the average American.
angminas
Diamond Member
Zysoclaplem is the most righteous person in this entire thread. When he found something he didn't know, he didn't pretend to know, but tried to learn so that he will know. Rather than spouting venom on a subject he didn't understand and putting words in other people's mouths. Zyso, feel free to PM me if you want help with the Bible.
Most or all of the questions asked here can be answered, but not in a format like this. The thread moves too quickly and is too full of self-righteous hate. Just because somebody doesn't answer a question here doesn't mean it can't be answered, or hasn't been answered many times in other places people would find if they actually wanted the answer.
Oh, and all those quotes in the OP are in the Bible, but Sheen's character has no understanding of them. Like most people. You think that since I know pi to 15 decimal places, I'm a mathematician? I know what HEAT, PIVADS, SDI, AMRAAM, SAW, AWOL, HDUAP, HMMWV, and AWACS stand for- am I a soldier? I can memorize that speech in the OP and say it in front of people- does that make me an actor? Just because he can rattle off verses and mock them doesn't mean he has wisdom.
Most or all of the questions asked here can be answered, but not in a format like this. The thread moves too quickly and is too full of self-righteous hate. Just because somebody doesn't answer a question here doesn't mean it can't be answered, or hasn't been answered many times in other places people would find if they actually wanted the answer.
Oh, and all those quotes in the OP are in the Bible, but Sheen's character has no understanding of them. Like most people. You think that since I know pi to 15 decimal places, I'm a mathematician? I know what HEAT, PIVADS, SDI, AMRAAM, SAW, AWOL, HDUAP, HMMWV, and AWACS stand for- am I a soldier? I can memorize that speech in the OP and say it in front of people- does that make me an actor? Just because he can rattle off verses and mock them doesn't mean he has wisdom.
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