Architect offering "Vintage construction" option for home

[Blackjack200]

Whole house from Sears for $12K.

My neighbor lives in a Sears House. They told me that when you got the kit the instructions told you not to cut anything. Every single piece was already the right size.

cast iron no hub bands
http://www.fernco.com/plumbing/shielded-couplings/no-hub-couplings
all the pipes and fittings are straight, and connected with these.

Those look like giant hose clamps.

I don't get the "True Measurement" one.

A 2x4 is 1.5" x 3.5"

A 2x6 is 1.5" x 5.5"

Want beefier construction to hold a heavy tub? Use 2x6. Want to be insane and overbuild, pointlessly wasting money? Use 2x8.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Bullshit. Sound transmits quite easily through cast iron pipes. The copper water pipes, on the other hand, are something worthwhile to investigate. While higher cost, they won't require a total redo of the architecture to install instead of PVC.



Don't know where the heck he's going to source the boards then, unless he's planning on getting them specially milled, an unnecessary expense that I doubt would serve any beneficial purpose. I've seen cast iron tubs, etc. on second floor rooms with the "not true" measurement wood framing, whatever that is. PS.....all the framing is actually true measured. The architect talking with you is making it sound like if you don't use "true" 2x4's, you're guessing at measurements......what a crock.



You ever live with and work with that crap? There are reasons drywall left plaster and lathe behind, besides the obvious cost differential. The plaster walls are more fragile as they age, cracks are very much more difficult to repair vs. holes in the drywall. And heaven help you if the plaster gets wet.

1. Wrong on PVC/cast iron, just dead wrong.

1a. PVC water lines are easy to work on. I wouldn't want all my water running through PVC for years, nor do I have any lasting faith in it, as all plastics deteriorate, but if I were building a house to live in less than 10 years, if it saved much, I would do it. If you doubt me, call the NASA museum and ask them how the cooling systems in their Apollo space suits are holding up. They are made of PVC, and last I knew were just about powder.

2. Most mid-to-high-end houses use 2x6s 16" on center. I'd rather have that than actual 2x4s. The architect is just playing on people's misunderstanding of nominal vs. dimensional lumber.

3. Plaster is 1000% superior to drywall. It's far stronger and more resistant to damage and WATER, it's denser by far which deadens sounds much better, and it's just as easy to fix as drywall. The only downside to it is cost. It is very labor intensive. As far as anything else goes though, you're just off. You're essentially talking about rock versus cardboard and saying cardboard is magical.

4. You're so wrong on the cast iron thing. In comparison to PVC it's just lol.

If this is your level of knowledge, you should not post in these threads. People might take you seriously.

 

[Howard]

Why doesn't cast iron rust in potable installs?

 

[skyking]

It is waste pipe only, and it is pretty dang tough.

 

[Howard]

It is waste pipe only, and it is pretty dang tough.

Oh. For sewage only.

 

[skyking]

Not that applies to houses much, but one of the commercial buildings our company worked on had ABS specified for cost savings, and subsequently had a pasta bar move in during a tenant improvement there.
When they dumped the hot pasta water repeatedly during the busy hour, they exceeded the capabilities of that plastic drain piping!
That's not going to happen with cast iron.

 

[herm0016]

Not that applies to houses much, but one of the commercial buildings our company worked on had ABS specified for cost savings, and subsequently had a pasta bar move in during a tenant improvement there.
When they dumped the hot pasta water repeatedly during the busy hour, they exceeded the capabilities of that plastic drain piping!
That's not going to happen with cast iron.

that has nothing to do with material....


I would not do any of it as described. I would go with pex for water lines (polyethelene) I have not heard of people using pvc for supply. pvc for drain lines.
use standard 2x6 for walls, 2x4 interior and spend the extra money insulating all of the walls, inside and out, floors, celings, etc. this will go a lot furter than cast iron lines ever would.
use blue board and skim coat for a better than drywall, but not nearly as costly as lath and plaster wall finish.
upgrade to "vintage" by using nice, real wood, thick mouldings, installing real window sills, hard wood panel doors of your choice, etc. this will improve the look and resale of your home far more than rough sawn lumber in the walls.

 

[herm0016]

It is waste pipe only, and it is pretty dang tough.

it does rust/rot for drain installs. many times in older homes, the cast iron lines are nearly rusted through, and fail with the slightest tap of a flashlight or hand. many are held together by the rust and corrsion alone. I would never put cast pipes in a house when plastic is an option.

 

[skyking]

that has nothing to do with material....

yes it does, the pipe melted 🙂
It did not rupture, but sagged between the code specified support distance, cooled with "bellies" in it, then clogged up.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

it does rust/rot for drain installs. many times in older homes, the cast iron lines are nearly rusted through, and fail with the slightest tap of a flashlight or hand. many are held together by the rust and corrsion alone. I would never put cast pipes in a house when plastic is an option.

lol

 

[richardycc]

using PVC instead of copper is the norm now? wow, how time has changed.

 

[Fern]

I own an old 'craftsman' type house.

I replaced the copper pipes/plumbing because I got tired of pin leaks. I recommend PEX pipe. If you do get copper, make sure it's the thicker version. (AFAIK, there two version of thickness.)

I have a cast iron sewage pipe. The thing looks like it will last forever. Noise, there is no noise.

I've never card for horsehair plaster and lathe. My house has (real) wooden walls (planks of wormy chestnut). When I built my office I used the thicker dry wall (IIRC 5/8 instead of 1/2) for better sound insulation.

Fern

 

[Greenman]

I've been consulting with an architect about building a new home and he is surprisingly offering a "vintage construction" package when designing homes.

Some of the upgrade items are:

-Cast iron sewer pipes and copper water pipes instead of using PVC. (Cast iron pipes have excellent sound deadening qualities and you won't hear water flow when flushing a toilet)
-True measurement wood framing and beams. E.g. a 2x4 is no longer really 2 inches by 4 inches. This would use real measurements and permit heavy items (cast iron bathtubs, cast iron heating stoves, pool table, gun safes etc... on any level of the house)
-Horsehair plaster and lathe for walls instead of drywalll and sound insulation between rooms.

There are a few more other options available but in total, going with these vintage options would raise the price of the house construction by roughly 25%

Anybody have any experience with this? Is some of this stuff worth it?

Cast iron waste pipes are nice for the second story because they deaden sound, that's the only place I use them in residential construction. There is no benefit elsewhere.
The full dimensional lumber is a joke, structurally it has no added value. If he's telling you that it's going to improve structural performance, you need a new engineer.
I don't know much about horse hair plaster, other than having ripped out several thousand square feet of it. If you want plaster there are better options, look into structo lite.
The water pips are a bit ticker. That decision should be based on local information. Some places have water that corrodes the copper, I've never seen it, but I have read about it. Where I live, we always use copper.

I've been a general contractor for twenty seven years, pm me if you have questions.

 

[highland145]

lol

Why lol?

Granted the cast in my house is 1937 but I've had to be careful when tying in. Thin on the bottom side. Failed under the kitchen. Fun times.....not.

 

[highland145]

C Where I live, we always use copper.

I've been a general contractor for twenty seven years, pm me if you have questions.

Why not cpvc? Copper+solder+fittings is hella expensive.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
The water pips are a bit ticker. That decision should be based on local information. Some places have water that corrodes the copper, I've never seen it, but I have read about it. Where I live, we always use copper.

I believe that was my problem. I'm on my own well water. I had some govt agency (cannot remember the name now) perform tests on my water because it tasted bad and my wife was worried about safety etc. After switching to PEX that problem disappeared. Apparently some chemical/mineral in the water was interacting with the copper.

Fern

 

[Possessed Freak]

Can our wiring be done with knob and tube grandpa?

Having worked on 2 houses with plaster walls and knob and tube wiring, and true 2x4's with not a single square measurement in the house... not just no, but HELL NO.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Why lol?

Granted the cast in my house is 1937 but I've had to be careful when tying in. Thin on the bottom side. Failed under the kitchen. Fun times.....not.

You live in SC? Climate is a big problem with ferrous anything down there. In non-coastal areas it's no contest.

 

[herm0016]

You live in SC? Climate is a big problem with ferrous anything down there. In non-coastal areas it's no contest.

wrong. its a problem with the sewer gas and fluid. not what is outside of the line. I am sure most of the people here know the correct info. yes, they last 50-70 ? years (that is what i have seen) but so will the plastic.


I have not seen cpvc used for supply water in a heck of a long time. want real vintage? get galvanized supply lines! woo heavy metals!

The flexible tubing i think most are referring to here (pex) is not pvc or pvc based at all. it is more stable, and cuts cost of install, less fittings, easy to tie into. It's great.

 

[glenn1]

If you want a truly worthwhile "vintage" option for your house, have the exterior done in real brick. That would be a far better use of your money than cast iron plumbing stacks and plaster-over-lathe walls. Your house will still be standing 100+ years from now when all the Chinese drywall houses have crumbled to dust. The only thing that would take your house down is a fire or large earthquake.

 

[Imp]

I live in an early 1900s house. It had cast iron sewage pipes. One pipe was behind a wall. The wall started bloating out because the pipe had a huge hole in it from rust/corrosion. I was young so just let dad take care of it by opening up the wall and letting it vent... Every time someone flushed the toilet, I could smell shit.

We also have lathe and plaster walls. Cheapo stud detectors don't work because they're designed for super cheap/thin drywall. At least there's so much wood back there that you don't need drywall anchors though.

 

[Greenman]

Why not cpvc? Copper+solder+fittings is hella expensive.

Hard to find cpvc here, no one uses it. Pex is available, but banned in the county where I live. Apparently, rats really like it.

 

[Greenman]

I believe that was my problem. I'm on my own well water. I had some govt agency (cannot remember the name now) perform tests on my water because it tasted bad and my wife was worried about safety etc. After switching to PEX that problem disappeared. Apparently some chemical/mineral in the water was interacting with the copper.

Fern

I read a very interesting article about it. In some areas the copper was developing pin holes in just a couple of years.

 

[notposting]

Moving into a mid-1800's (original part, anyway, bits added on over the years) house, and it has plaster and lath.

F that stuff. Drywall all the way. Use thicker boards if needed. Double em up. Add insulation to interior walls. Even pita techniques like that are still 10 times better than plaster. Hate that stuff.

 

[WackyDan]

Sorry... I'll take modern building materials thank-you. Nothing specifically wrong with cast iron though. Should outlast you.

But for the in house plumbing? I'd take Pex any day. For framing? 2x4's or 2x6's are just fine and for floors, trussed 2x beams or laminated are just fine. I'd wager that drywall is more fire resistant than plaster with horse hair and lathe.

But hey...It's you money.