Arabs turn against 'megalomaniac' Hamas

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: keird
Hamas needs innocents to die.

You know why that is?

Because people who are ignorant, lazy, uninterested, negliegent in their moral responsibilities as a member of the human race, who are enablers for the powerful to get away with murder, help the bar to go higher and higher as to what's needed for their to be any sympathy for the 'other side', allowing the 'allies' to get away with more and more wrong. The only limit placed is when there's some reaction suffecient to say to the ally they went too far, and these people will say that in very few situations.

Almost no matter what Israel does wrong, you can hide behind the emptoy platitudes about past wars making it 'ok'.

The lies and myths and propaganda are so thick - when they're even the issue instead of sheer ignorance - that what would actually help would be the spreading of accurate information (for both sides), but you see almost none of that outside of little-seen media in the US.

So what does it take to get these people to say 'whoa, Israel'? Is it the bombing of civilians? The killing of children, of families? Torture? Nuking an entire nation?

The bar keeps going up and up, the rationalizations dehumanize more and more people. Today we have plenty of people who would not object to a large nuclear attack by Israel.

That is a culture of incredible immorality, or injustice, having only three outcomes - the righteous resitance of the oppressed, their surrender, or their destruction.

We see this process again and again - the blindness to the treatment of Jews by Nazis, the Vietnames by the US and Japan and France, the Native Americans, the people in the worst communist regimes (like Mao and Stalin), slaves around the world including the US. Take when slavery existed - some could 'whine' about the immorality, but the majority view was a blindness ot the wrongs, to the harms, slaves were dehuminzaed; people actually beleived the slaves were 'better off as slaves', just as you have your rationalizations.

So you say they 'need' civillizans killed, Yes, they do, but for the wrong reasons - because the lazy who vote for the billions in arms against them ignore the situation more and more, requiring not just wrong, not just injustice, but atrocities like civilians kille to get any limited on the other side, and even that's not happening much.

Now, I'll add that there's a whole other side to this regarding wrongs by Palastenians and rights by Israel, but that side is very well known and needs little repitition.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
The global "jihad" would quickly collapse if most moderate muslims shunned these assholes publicly.

Until then, we will just have to keep killing the extremists.

Except you're one of the extremists who would be first in line.

Who would put him there, you? I think I'm starting to understand why Liberals like the Mujahideen so much. Seemingly polar opposites they both like unquestioned total control of life and explanation of the universe and shun freedom and individualism. Control freaks. Thought, economically and socially and if you don't like it , death. Like Stalin and Mao did.

I could be wrong I'm still developing this thesis.

It's a bit odd to me that in one thread, you see through the biases - on race - and point them out clearly, but here, you fall victim to another set of biases.

OCguy raises the demand to kill people, and you don't blink an eye, but when it's pointed out that if anyone deserves such treatment it's he as someone who is such an advocate for violence, and you see the person pointing out *his* excessive zeal for violence as the one who is notably violent, but not a word for OCguy on the topic.

You did great on race in pointing out the blind spots. Here, you fail to note how people who are fine with their nation using advanced weaponry but object to peasants who use crude violence, fine with 'collateral civilian damage' by the powerful weapons but who object to the people who are so powerless as to have no other targets available than civilian, people who are fine with their nation pointlessly killing millions of Vietnamese but attack others for far less, are the 'menace to peace' more than those they criticize. You fall victim to the bias of the 'powerful side', its wrongs less visible to you.

Liberals are the ones who point out the fallacy of how the Mujahideen were handled, contrary to your unimformed, hack-level 'thesis', while Republicans appear thrilled with the history of arming them as opposition to the USSR. You might have missed my linking an article with an actual left-wing view on the 'Mujahideen' weeks ago, that is at odds with your misrepresentation. Here is a link for you to review.

Your comments are just bizarrely wrong to me. Liberals are the champions of freedom, of free thinking, or individual rights. Liberals *abhor* Mao and Stalin.

Hitler was a right-winger, FYI; Mao and Stalin were authoritarians, not liberals. The right is the side that cozies up with alliances of convenience with right-wing dictators, even creates and places them, while the left battles for democracy and the good of the people.

You need to rad some history, that's the constant theme. In Spain, it was right-wing Franco against the liberals. In Nicaragua, elected left-wing president Ortega againdt the Reagan-created terrorist right-wing contra army. In Vietnam, the support of colonization and dictators against those who wanted freeom. In Chile, the popular liberal democracy that elected Allende was destroyed by the US-backed dictator Pinochet. In Iran, when democracy led to a leader sho protested the exploitavle low oil prices Britain had obtained at the point of a gun, the CIA replaced him with the dictator Shah of Iran and provided him with a secret police force. There are countless more examples.

Happy New Years!

You're going off on some wild tangents which I don't want to get in to. That stuff is past and I probably feel the same way as you about S America and nam' but it's not relevant to current discussion. Lets talk about the here and now.

The main point here is you have barbaric 7th century mores practiced in large segments of the world - people who have no problem with institutionalized beating of women - no problem with hacking heads off those who wish to be free from religion - people who have no problem targeting civilians and school children of their perceived enemy - no problem institutionalizing killing of gays, artists and those who speak out against that system aka the Qu'ran - no problem from Thailand to Darfur and around the world killing those who don't believe as they do. This evil must be addressed by freedom and peace lovers regaulrless of party left or right or it will continue forever and all the suffering, death and destruction will continue forever.

I'm a little drunk right now but sometime I'll tell you about my year in Saudi - working on a non -American compound- but in a palace - and how I came to understand the texts, the tenets, and most importantly the attitudes, the atmospherics of this Belief System and why I feel it's actually worse than Nazism which was relatively benign. The people are great and very polite but serverly indoctrinated and rigid.

Thanks for the response and Happy New Year's to you too.

I'm going to respond now to just one point in your post - I partly agree, there are real issues with some in the region. The very things I condemn regularly here as a liberal, the people you describe have far worse in many ways. Those who want to treat women badly, who want to force their ideology and religion at the point of a blade, are the antithesis to what I advocate, and they can be a menace requiring a violent response.

But you have a lot of learning to do, IMO, such as beginning with - for all the greater exposure you have to the situation now first-0hand than I have - the history, such as how England *built up* the very fundamentalist forces you are concerned with, as a force to serve their goal as an enemy to weaken the nationalists who opposed their intrustion into the region to exploit it (the sort of behavior which led Lawrence of Arabia to complain about England betraying the arabs he led to battle with false promises).

It changes things a bit to understand you are not fighitng some 'evil' in a vacuum, but to understand the role *our* societies have played in exploiting the region.

It's all too easy to be an 'evil empire', and in your posts, I see - to use for no good reason Star Wars terms - only condemnation of the evil of th erebels, and none of your own side.

It's hardly possible to pursue justice there if you *only* attack them for their wrongs, but bury their *legitimate* grievances as if they were all illegitimate.

That's what I see missing in your comments, and those who are on 'your side' generally.

I'm not in favor of the 'evil forces' you describe, and I support some violence to stop them, but not to simply pave the way for injustices by 'our side', in a power grab.

I hate to be insulting, but I don't look to US soldiers for awareness of ulterios motives in our foreign policy. It's a lot easier to sleep at night convinced you're just 'for freedom'.

So, I'll agree with you on the problem in that area, but not on the blind approach to empowering whatever corrupt regime the power want to replace it.

I've misplaced the book I'd recommend to you with that history of how the 'radical fundamentalists' have been created there, but you can find it or PM me and I"ll look.

BTW, we also need to recognize that we have our own 'radical fundamentalists' in this nation, who would radically change our country if they could, would use the US military for a religious war agenda. There are several good books on that, you might try Kevin Phillips' "American Theocracy" for one. He's a conservative horrified by the religious fundamentalists' agenda here and their rise to political power (derailed for now).

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
The global "jihad" would quickly collapse if most moderate muslims shunned these assholes publicly.

Until then, we will just have to keep killing the extremists.

Except you're one of the extremists who would be first in line.

Who would put him there, you? I think I'm starting to understand why Liberals like the Mujahideen so much. Seemingly polar opposites they both like unquestioned total control of life and explanation of the universe and shun freedom and individualism. Control freaks. Thought, economically and socially and if you don't like it , death. Like Stalin and Mao did.

I could be wrong I'm still developing this thesis.

It's a bit odd to me that in one thread, you see through the biases - on race - and point them out clearly, but here, you fall victim to another set of biases.

OCguy raises the demand to kill people, and you don't blink an eye, but when it's pointed out that if anyone deserves such treatment it's he as someone who is such an advocate for violence, and you see the person pointing out *his* excessive zeal for violence as the one who is notably violent, but not a word for OCguy on the topic.

This is why noone takes true liberals seriously. You equate someone like me to an extreme group of mindless criminals that rape/murder/torture on a daily basis. It is your kind that enables them. Luckily, you are not represented in our government by pretty much anyone. Even the most "left" officials in this country recognize the war against the global Jihad movement.

Me wanting to kill THEM, does not make me LIKE them. I know in the bleeding-heart world everything is relative, but that is not how it works. If we kill the killers, that does not make us equal to them.

If I see a guy beating up an old lady on the side of the street, and I tackle him and beat the shit out of him, I am not the criminal. Grow up.

 

[Lemon law]

Its pretty clear what the Israeli strategy is over the past 60 years, they want more and more and they can only get by taking it from Palestinians or their other neighbors. And when those they herd into concentration camps say unfair, Israel simply ignores them, and when small subset of the population retaliate by terrorists means, Israel retaliates against all with a totally disproportional retaliation.

And now its quite clearly seen in the two part split of the Palestinian people. The good Palestinians in the West Bank do not get retaliated against, but they do not get rewarded either. And just as in Gaza, Israel slowly annexes more and more of their land.

Which is why their Fatah leadership is not likely to last. On the other hard, Hamas are the bad Palestinians, with some actively fighting back with rockets, as the Palestinian people have been saying unfair since 1948. If they merely say unfair, Israel ignores them and proceeds to be even more unfair, if they use terrorism against Israel, they do not accomplish much, get retaliated against, but there is something understandable human in fighting back.

But still the Palestinians have progressed past ineffectual the rock and bottle throwing, as terrorists in the region are acquiring rockets of increasing range and accuracy. While its quite apparent that what Hamas is launching from Gaza into Israel is no where near as good as the rocket technology Hezbollah had and still has in Lebanon today. But still, the rocket technology Hamas now has is better than what it had two years ago and we can expect that progression to continue for the entire region as more terrorists ringing Israel get better and more accurate rockets with longer and longer ranges.

And when we think about, there is not a dimes difference between a formal army and irregular stateless terrorists, they both have a MO of breaking things and killing people, and they use violence to achieve their ends. When it comes down to an Air force, Israel has a first class one, and the Palestinians have nothing. But in general, an air force is more of a bludgeon rather than a scalpel, and after 2 days or so, most military targets have been taken out, leaving the remaining Israeli aerial campaign as senseless violence against the innocent civilians , and somewhat of a repeat of the Israeli rape of Lebanon 30 months ago.

The real question regards the question if a Israeli ground assault of Lebanon is planned to consolidate the military gains? Israeli tanks are already massed at the border and only a ground offensive can really uncover the cashes of Rockets.

Which may be the Hamas plan all along, lure Israel in and then break out their really good stuff much like Hezbollah did to Israel, taking out Israeli tanks and taking Israeli personnel hostage in the process.
It was only after Hezbollah fought Israeli tanks in Southern Lebanon to a near standstill, that the tripling of Hezbollah popularity occurred. Really the first time in 60 years that anyone in the region had any success stopping Israel. Even if Hamas can't join the we stopped Israel club, the future funding will come as Arab anger grows.

Even five years ago, a pair of Israeli tanks could have driven North to the Syrian Border or South to the Egyptian border without finding anyone daring to oppose them. Those days are now long gone, and I expect we will see the development of some effective enough surface to air missiles that will force Israeli jets to fly higher. This conflict has been ongoing for 60 years now, the only change is in the ability of terrorists to fight back.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: keird
Because you're attempting to legitimize a terrorist group...

I am not, have not, and have no intention of ever attempting anything of the sort.

Originally posted by: keird
...by re-posting factoids deliberately out of context.

I am always happy to discuss the cotext of the facts I present.

Originally posted by: keird
As a U.S. Soldier, I have zero problem with my allies killing members of a terrorist organization.

Neither do I, and I greatly respect you for the sacrifice of serving in defense of our nation as well as that of our allies.

Originally posted by: keird
A terrorist/criminal organization that you won't address because you're to busy re-posting 'Israel's continued unchecked expansion' or 'over 400,000 Palestinians removed'.

I am ready and willing to enlist along side you to end this decades old battle. However, that can never happen as long as we fail to address the grievances you are so quick to dismiss, and which serves as those terrorists' best recruitment tools. Until then, we will continue to perpetuate this conflict, and I want no part in that.

Originally posted by: keird

Sheikh Nizar Rayyan, 52, a senior Hamas leader and cleric, was killed along with several others on Thursday when an IAF aircraft dropped a bomb on the eight-story Jabalya apartment building he lived in, the IDF said.

According to Palestinian sources, his family was warned before the attack but did not leave the building, Army Radio reported.

link

Hamas hides with their family? Was it the family's decision to stay despite the warning or just his? Hamas needs innocents to die.

What I bolded in the quote you presented says he was at home. Further in the article also says was a teacher at the at the Islamic University in Gaza City. Where did you see hiding in this?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
The global "jihad" would quickly collapse if most moderate muslims shunned these assholes publicly.

Until then, we will just have to keep killing the extremists.

Except you're one of the extremists who would be first in line.

Who would put him there, you? I think I'm starting to understand why Liberals like the Mujahideen so much. Seemingly polar opposites they both like unquestioned total control of life and explanation of the universe and shun freedom and individualism. Control freaks. Thought, economically and socially and if you don't like it , death. Like Stalin and Mao did.

I could be wrong I'm still developing this thesis.

It's a bit odd to me that in one thread, you see through the biases - on race - and point them out clearly, but here, you fall victim to another set of biases.

OCguy raises the demand to kill people, and you don't blink an eye, but when it's pointed out that if anyone deserves such treatment it's he as someone who is such an advocate for violence, and you see the person pointing out *his* excessive zeal for violence as the one who is notably violent, but not a word for OCguy on the topic.

This is why noone takes true liberals seriously.

As little as I think of your political ignorance and evil, you are not 'no one'.

You equate someone like me to an extreme group of mindless criminals that rape/murder/torture on a daily basis.

No, you instantly fail to understand, and twist the words I say into something else that fits your ideology and lets you off the hook.

Oh, I didn't say you are the moral equivalent of a murderer, which happens to be true, I said you are a 'mindless criminal' like a street thug, so you can ignore the point as false.

To explain your ethical problems requires some complexity, and like teaching a pig to sing, that's a problem.

Cultures can get into ideological orientations with blind spots. From a distance - geographic or across time - they can be easier to see. From up close, not so much. We can name any number of cultural situations in which one group dehumanized another, and commited acts against them that are immoral, but did not seem so to the perpetrators.

Americans against Native Americans, Native Americans against other Native Americans, British against Americans. Communists against non-communists, non-communists against communists. Americans against Vietnamese, Japanese against Vietnamese, French against Vietnamese. Japanese against Americans, Americans against Japanese. Germans against Jews, Jews against Palastenians, Palastenians against Jews. Sunni against Shiite, Shiite against Christian, Chsritian against Muslim.

You are an advocate for ignorant, immoral violence. Your ideology is too entrenched to get past your knee-jerk rationalizations quickly. You parrot/parry the truth.

You are not saving a littleoldlady from a mugger. Perhaps more later, have to post now.

It is your kind that enables them. Luckily, you are not represented in our government by pretty much anyone. Even the most "left" officials in this country recognize the war against the global Jihad movement.

Me wanting to kill THEM, does not make me LIKE them. I know in the bleeding-heart world everything is relative, but that is not how it works. If we kill the killers, that does not make us equal to them.

If I see a guy beating up an old lady on the side of the street, and I tackle him and beat the shit out of him, I am not the criminal. Grow up.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Its pretty clear what the Israeli strategy is over the past 60 years, they want more and more and they can only get by taking it from Palestinians or their other neighbors. And when those they herd into concentration camps say unfair, Israel simply ignores them, and when small subset of the population retaliate by terrorists means, Israel retaliates against all with a totally disproportional retaliation.

And now its quite clearly seen in the two part split of the Palestinian people. The good Palestinians in the West Bank do not get retaliated against, but they do not get rewarded either. And just as in Gaza, Israel slowly annexes more and more of their land.

Which is why their Fatah leadership is not likely to last. On the other hard, Hamas are the bad Palestinians, with some actively fighting back with rockets, as the Palestinian people have been saying unfair since 1948. If they merely say unfair, Israel ignores them and proceeds to be even more unfair, if they use terrorism against Israel, they do not accomplish much, get retaliated against, but there is something understandable human in fighting back.

But still the Palestinians have progressed past ineffectual the rock and bottle throwing, as terrorists in the region are acquiring rockets of increasing range and accuracy. While its quite apparent that what Hamas is launching from Gaza into Israel is no where near as good as the rocket technology Hezbollah had and still has in Lebanon today. But still, the rocket technology Hamas now has is better than what it had two years ago and we can expect that progression to continue for the entire region as more terrorists ringing Israel get better and more accurate rockets with longer and longer ranges.

And when we think about, there is not a dimes difference between a formal army and irregular stateless terrorists, they both have a MO of breaking things and killing people, and they use violence to achieve their ends. When it comes down to an Air force, Israel has a first class one, and the Palestinians have nothing. But in general, an air force is more of a bludgeon rather than a scalpel, and after 2 days or so, most military targets have been taken out, leaving the remaining Israeli aerial campaign as senseless violence against the innocent civilians , and somewhat of a repeat of the Israeli rape of Lebanon 30 months ago.

The real question regards the question if a Israeli ground assault of Lebanon is planned to consolidate the military gains? Israeli tanks are already massed at the border and only a ground offensive can really uncover the cashes of Rockets.

Which may be the Hamas plan all along, lure Israel in and then break out their really good stuff much like Hezbollah did to Israel, taking out Israeli tanks and taking Israeli personnel hostage in the process.
It was only after Hezbollah fought Israeli tanks in Southern Lebanon to a near standstill, that the tripling of Hezbollah popularity occurred. Really the first time in 60 years that anyone in the region had any success stopping Israel. Even if Hamas can't join the we stopped Israel club, the future funding will come as Arab anger grows.

Even five years ago, a pair of Israeli tanks could have driven North to the Syrian Border or South to the Egyptian border without finding anyone daring to oppose them. Those days are now long gone, and I expect we will see the development of some effective enough surface to air missiles that will force Israeli jets to fly higher. This conflict has been ongoing for 60 years now, the only change is in the ability of terrorists to fight back.

Does the fact that over the past 60 years, Israel has expanded by taking land from those that attacked it (as a buffer zone). It is the Arabs that are ceding land to Israel (for end of hostilities <again>), not Israel attacking for land.

When your terrorists are able to effectivley cause damage to Israel, then the gloves will come off w/ respect to Gaza. Gaza is a thorn and Israel has been willing to accomidate it.
It pulled out, hoping that the peace for land would work. It has been shown that it does not. Hamas showed that it was not interested in peace. As someone said above, Hamas can not work effectively as a open social government and a militant resistant group concurrently.

There is nothing stopping Israel from creating a line of heavy equipment and just working south with the army. Israel does not want Gaza, scorch earth it to remove the rats.
Harsh thing, but it may be needed for Israel's survival.

The Palestinians were supported to be the responsibity of the Arab nations back in 48.
Let the Arab nations take care of them now; Note Egypt does not want them. Maybe Syria/Iran? Remove them from Gaza if Hamas does not want to act as a responsible government.

Egypt does not want Gaza, why should the onus be on Israel to maintain it?
Hamas apparently does not want it - they are encouraging for it to be destroyed.

 

[badnewcastle]

Nice! We need more of this.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

There is nothing stopping Israel from creating a line of heavy equipment and just working south with the army. Israel does not want Gaza, scorch earth it to remove the rats.
Harsh thing, but it may be needed for Israel's survival.

One common trait among those who commit atrocities is to dehumanize the target. It's common to call them some sort of disgusting creatures. Nazis called Jews "cockroaches" and referred to them as a disease needing the human race to clieanse itself of. You say exactly the same thing with different words expressing the same thing here.

 

[nx6100]

this is untrue
Egypt, Jordan, Morroco, Algeria, Indonesia and others are trumples.
Stop lie, Hamas getting more supporters every day. Don't listen to this Propaganda.
Enter any Arab Forum. All of them talking about revenge for Gaza.
If you mean the stupid criminal government, I will say yes, because they don't represent the nations.
Don't listen to me, just visit Arabs Forum and watch what are they saying.

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: nx6100
this is untrue
Egypt, Jordan, Morroco, Algeria, Indonesia and others are trumples.
Stop lie, Hamas getting more supporters every day. Don't listen to this Propaganda.
Enter any Arab Forum. All of them talking about revenge for Gaza.
If you mean the stupid criminal government, I will say yes, because they don't represent the nations.
Don't listen to me, just visit Arabs Forum and watch what are they saying.

I honestly hope you are right. I would like to see them strike back at Israel. It will be a joy to watch Israels response.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: nx6100
this is untrue
Egypt, Jordan, Morroco, Algeria, Indonesia and others are trumples.
Stop lie, Hamas getting more supporters every day. Don't listen to this Propaganda.
Enter any Arab Forum. All of them talking about revenge for Gaza.
If you mean the stupid criminal government, I will say yes, because they don't represent the nations.
Don't listen to me, just visit Arabs Forum and watch what are they saying.

I honestly hope you are right. I would like to see them strike back at Israel. It will be a joy to watch Israels response.

You are immoral, ignorant, and a menace.

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: nx6100
this is untrue
Egypt, Jordan, Morroco, Algeria, Indonesia and others are trumples.
Stop lie, Hamas getting more supporters every day. Don't listen to this Propaganda.
Enter any Arab Forum. All of them talking about revenge for Gaza.
If you mean the stupid criminal government, I will say yes, because they don't represent the nations.
Don't listen to me, just visit Arabs Forum and watch what are they saying.

I honestly hope you are right. I would like to see them strike back at Israel. It will be a joy to watch Israels response.

You are immoral, ignorant, and a menace.

Thank you. I deny nothing, unlike you.

 

[nx6100]

you want Israel attack us?
Israel won't do anything without big nanay. Anyway, big nanay kicked hardly in Iraq and Afganstan. It seem that 44's Shoes weren't enough. Anyway, 1T bombs, F-16, F-35 didn't break Palestinian moral, while a stupid rocket make more than 700,000 became a refugees. Israel got a great listen in Lebanon, and I hope they will have another one few days

Great point of views, collecting them for documentation are very important. At least to teach my kids.

 

[nx6100]

I really appreciate some replies. I feel that there are some commons between me and other nice humans.

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: nx6100
you want Israel attack us?
Israel won't do anything without big nanay. Anyway, big nanay kicked hardly in Iraq and Afganstan. It seem that 44's Shoes weren't enough. Anyway, 1T bombs, F-16, F-35 didn't break Palestinian moral, while a stupid rocket make more than 700,000 became a refugees. Israel got a great listen in Lebanon, and I hope they will have another one few days

Great point of views, collecting them for documentation are very important. At least to teach my kids.

You want to attack them. I want to see their response. I have to agree with you. The Palestinians are a strong willed people, and a worthy enemy. Unfortunately for them the lack the military strength to defeat anyone. Israel could crush them in days if they wanted to. Sadly they do not, and this madness will continue. Teach your kids well comrade, teach them well.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: nx6100
you want Israel attack us?

Many people here are insanely, violently, worryingly right wing. They believe all foriegn people are evil, so it's nothing against you in particular. They are speaking without thinking about what it means - they don't really want to see women and children killed... or at least I hope they don't. They certainly don't represent the opinion of the west regardless.

/edit: BTW I strongly disagree with the thread title - Arabs are not turning away from Hamas in the slightest.

/edit 2:

nx6100 are you actually in Palestine right now?

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

There is nothing stopping Israel from creating a line of heavy equipment and just working south with the army. Israel does not want Gaza, scorch earth it to remove the rats.
Harsh thing, but it may be needed for Israel's survival.

One common trait among those who commit atrocities is to dehumanize the target. It's common to call them some sort of disgusting creatures. Nazis called Jews "cockroaches" and referred to them as a disease needing the human race to clieanse itself of. You say exactly the same thing with different words expressing the same thing here.

When the enemy dehumanizes themself, they've no right to protest when they're dehumanized by their enemy.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: nx6100
you want Israel attack us?
Israel won't do anything without big nanay. Anyway, big nanay kicked hardly in Iraq and Afganstan. It seem that 44's Shoes weren't enough. Anyway, 1T bombs, F-16, F-35 didn't break Palestinian moral, while a stupid rocket make more than 700,000 became a refugees. Israel got a great listen in Lebanon, and I hope they will have another one few days

Great point of views, collecting them for documentation are very important. At least to teach my kids.

1) Israel didn't lose the war in Lebanon nor did it win the war in Lebanon. They lost a few tanks and almost a couple hundred people. You do realize they have thousands of tanks and millions of people left, right?

Yes they got a shock and awe from Hezbollah but had to retreat. Not because they were "losing" but because they couldn't stop the rocket attacks.
What would have happened had Israel not retreated? They would have lost probably 1,000 more soldiers and maybe 300 civilians. THAT IS NOT DEFEAT. Their army would have eventually won.

2) If you are crying about Israel's military.. why are you ignoring Egypt's massive military? Egypt has tons of F-16s, upgraded MIGs on the way and the largest Navy in the M.E. What about Saudi Arabia? They have a massive air force. What about UAE? Kuwait? Jordan? Syria?

NOBODY CARES FOR THE PALESTINIANS. THEY ACT LIKE MONSTERS

 

[keird]

Originally posted by: nx6100
you want Israel attack us?

I think the West would like the Middle East to be at peace for longer than an one-sided truce.

At least to teach my kids.

I'm not teaching my child to hate anyone. But I'll try to instill that there are truly evil people in this world. I've protected Muslims from Christians. Bosnia and Kosovo had their fair share of monsters on both sides, though.

 

[keird]

Originally posted by: Atheus
nx6100 are you actually in Palestine right now?

Do you think that they would still have internet access? Power for a computer and the entire network?

 

[nx6100]

Thank Atheus
You know It is hard when you find your friend hardly crying like a kid, then I try to calm him down he shout "I Lost my brother, his wife and 2 kids". Sure you won't say "ha ha ha, I thought you were joking" at least you will hug him. And then when you set with him and listen to some guys says "hay it was wonderful day, 200 people targeted and killid" What would he say? he might jump on them and kicked him. This what is happening now.

But How old are they? if the are younger than 30's I would say "yeah it is my mistake to talk with them" because I thought 30 years is more that enough to understanding what is going in this world.

Other thing, after more than million killed in Iraq Mr. George W.B says "I made a mistakes", he couldn't stop terrorism in Iraq, actually he brought the terrorism to Iraq. Alqaidah wasn't in Iraq before. It arrived after the invition.

Atheus, one of my best friend is an English teacher, He is from U.K. he lived for 1 year in U.A.E, but 4 months was enough for him to change his thought about us. He loved my country and living in it. western people are very nice. But a lot of them judging us far away and thought FOX-SKYnews.

Anyway thanks for your nice way of talk.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: keird

Originally posted by: Atheus
nx6100 are you actually in Palestine right now?

Do you think that they would still have internet access? Power for a computer and the entire network?

Yea why not, it's the middle east, not the moon. Even if they didn't have dialup and DSL working people still have laptops with mobile network access.

Besides his use of 'us' and terrible English implied it.

 

[keird]

Originally posted by: Atheus
Yea why not, it's the middle east, not the moon. Even if they didn't have dialup and DSL working people still have laptops with mobile network access.

Besides his use of 'us' and terrible English implied it.

Maybe you're right. <shrug>

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: nx6100
Thank Atheus
You know It is hard when you find your friend hardly crying like a kid, then I try to calm him down he shout "I Lost my brother, his wife and 2 kids". Sure you won't say "ha ha ha, I thought you were joking" at least you will hug him. And then when you set with him and listen to some guys says "hay it was wonderful day, 200 people targeted and killid" What would he say? he might jump on them and kicked him. This what is happening now.

But How old are they? if the are younger than 30's I would say "yeah it is my mistake to talk with them" because I thought 30 years is more that enough to understanding what is going in this world.

Other thing, after more than million killed in Iraq Mr. George W.B says "I made a mistakes", he couldn't stop terrorism in Iraq, actually he brought the terrorism to Iraq. Alqaidah wasn't in Iraq before. It arrived after the invition.

Atheus, one of my best friend is an English teacher, He is from U.K. he lived for 1 year in U.A.E, but 4 months was enough for him to change his thought about us. He loved my country and living in it. western people are very nice. But a lot of them judging us far away and thought FOX-SKYnews.

Anyway thanks for your nice way of talk.

Indeed, our views of the middle east are distorted by the media, just as your view of us is similarly distorted. Only through actually talking to eachother can these things be resolved.

I am interested - where are you? Can you confirm you are in Palestine right now?