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Arab world squirms at impact of Bush's call for freedom

Specop 007

Diamond Member
In what some would say is a bit of a turn about in my mindset, I figured I'd post this. It seems Bushs worlds (Eat'm Democrats! 😛 ) have inspired some Middle Eastern peoples to rally to the banner of freedom! This gives me great joys to see an otherwise oppressed people strive for freedom. I only hope Bushs words (and moreso his actions and needed support) continue to reach to oppressed peoples the world over. I also dearly hope Bush doesnt abandon those people who would need his help the most in these times of change.

Article

Arab world squirms at impact of Bush's call for freedom

By Anton La Guardia, Diplomatic Editor
(Filed: 01/03/2005)

In the few weeks since President George W Bush declared in his inaugural speech that America would defend itself by promoting "the expansion of freedom in all the world", his speech appears to be having a revolutionary impact on the Middle East.

Iraqis have defied the bombers to go to the polls, Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak has announced multi-party presidential elections, Palestinians will unveil a democratic reform package in London today and, last night, Lebanon's prime minister resigned in the face of "people power" on Beirut's streets.

Many Arab intellectuals had mocked President Bush's talk of freedom as a rhetorical flourish to justify regime change by force of American arms.

But for the moment Mr Bush has no need for his tanks: his words carried on the airwaves of Arab satellite television have been enough to discomfit the lifetime presidents, kings and sheikhs of the Arab world.

Syria, in particular, is feeling the pressure. In an attempt to ingratiate itself with America, Damascus last week handed over Sabawi Ibrahim al-Hassan al-Tikriti, Saddam Hussein's half-brother who has mastermind the insurgency from a safe haven in Syria.

It is unclear how far Syria will go in co-operating with the new Iraqi government against the insurgents but Syria will not easily give up its control of Lebanon.

Now, suddenly, there has been a wave of change across the region.

Firstly, the US regained its confidence in Iraq after successfully holding elections on Jan 30 despite months of attacks by Iraqi insurgents.

In Palestine, the bloody stalemate with Israel was broken last November by the death of the veteran Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat.

The pace of change in the Palestinian Authority has been accelerated by pressure from Mr Bush, who declared as long ago as June 2003 that Palestinians should elect leaders "not tainted by terror".

The pressure for Syria to leave Lebanon has been building since Israel withdrew from the south of the country in 2000.

America had effectively allowed Syria to turn Lebanon into its vassal in 1990, as a reward for supporting the US-led coalition in evicting Iraqi forces from Kuwait.

But America's attitude changed after the war to remove Saddam Hussein.

Syria was accused of providing a haven for the former Iraqi regime to organise the insurgency.

Some senior American officials believe Syria may have inherited the stocks of weapons of mass destruction that vanished from Iraq.

In 2003, the US Congress authorised Mr Bush to impose sanctions on Damascus under the Syria Accountability Act.

Last September America buried the hatchet with France and co-sponsored a UN resolution telling Syria to withdraw from Lebanon. Syria may have calculated that the way to keep America off its back was to keep it bogged down in Iraq.

After all, President Bashar al-Assad's father had successfully manipulated the civil war in Lebanon to defeat Israel as well as the US, French and other peacekeeping forces briefly deployed in Beirut in 1982.

But the younger Assad appears to be much less capable than his father had been. Where his father made himself a central Arab leader, wooed by all, the current President Assad has become increasingly isolated.

Surrounded by foes such as Israel to the east, Turkey to the north and now the US army to the east, Syria had always relied on its ability to appeal to the nationalist heart of the Arab world.

Now unrest in Beirut is destroying this vestige of legitimacy. Unless Assad can transform himself, two bombs in February - one that murdered the former Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri, and the other last week's suicide bombing in Tel Aviv blamed on Syrian-backed radicals - may come to be seen as marking the final decline of his regime. Mr Bush will doubtless be hoping that this "domino effect" will also be felt on the other side of Iraq - in Iran.

The problem for Mr Bush is that, unless the clerical regime is overthrown or changes dramatically, Iran could come dangerously close to developing its own nuclear weapon. Then Mr Bush may decide that mere words are no longer enough to protect America's interests.
 
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Pure placation until Bush is gone. Sometimes you have to appease a psychopath.

1) Your crazy
2) It seems a good majority of people are simply incapable of thinking out of the box when it comes to Bushs strategy.
3) The proof is in the pudding. The banner of freedom has been carried to the Middle East, and the people there wont let it fall without a fight.
 
Heh, assassination of lebanese EX-PM caused the rallying in Lebanon, Arafat dying caused Palestinians to make a change. Why people think the world revolves around Bush is beyond me.
 
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Pure placation until Bush is gone. Sometimes you have to appease a psychopath.

1) Your crazy
2) It seems a good majority of people are simply incapable of thinking out of the box when it comes to Bushs strategy.
3) The proof is in the pudding. The banner of freedom has been carried to the Middle East, and the people there wont let it fall without a fight.

I'm crazy? How many people have I killed for no reason?
 
Originally posted by: mrCide
Heh, assassination of lebanese EX-PM caused the rallying in Lebanon, Arafat dying caused Palestinians to make a change. Why people think the world revolves around Bush is beyond me.

Certainly it doesnt. But, having the leader of the most powerful military in the world say "We're bringin freedom, and if need be we're bringin it hangin off the end of a 120mm smoothbore" can inspire an otherwise "beaten" people to rise up to throw off the chains of oppression.
To put it simply, if you know (or know there might be) the possibility of the greatest military the world has ever seen coming to help you overthrow a dictator, your gonna be a helluva lot more willing to take a chance at gaining your freedom.
 
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: mrCide
Heh, assassination of lebanese EX-PM caused the rallying in Lebanon, Arafat dying caused Palestinians to make a change. Why people think the world revolves around Bush is beyond me.

Certainly it doesnt. But, having the leader of the most powerful military in the world say "We're bringin freedom, and if need be we're bringin it hangin off the end of a 120mm smoothbore" can inspire an otherwise "beaten" people to rise up to throw off the chains of oppression.
To put it simply, if you know (or know there might be) the possibility of the greatest military the world has ever seen coming to help you overthrow a dictator, your gonna be a helluva lot more willing to take a chance at gaining your freedom.

Dude, you need to get laid really bad.
 
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Pure placation until Bush is gone. Sometimes you have to appease a psychopath.

1) Your crazy
2) It seems a good majority of people are simply incapable of thinking out of the box when it comes to Bushs strategy.
3) The proof is in the pudding. The banner of freedom has been carried to the Middle East, and the people there wont let it fall without a fight.

I'm crazy? How many people have I killed for no reason?

WHOA BUDDY!! Kepe me out of this! I wont be guilty by association!! :|

Your not takin ME to jail with you, OH NO!!

😛

Seriously, do you think these people are rising up just to keep Bush happy? Honestly, is your thinking THAT limited and your hatred for Bush THAt blinding?? I mean damn, honestly here Darkhawk. Your telling me this is all a big sham just to keep Bush happy?
 
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Pure placation until Bush is gone. Sometimes you have to appease a psychopath.

1) Your crazy
2) It seems a good majority of people are simply incapable of thinking out of the box when it comes to Bushs strategy.
3) The proof is in the pudding. The banner of freedom has been carried to the Middle East, and the people there wont let it fall without a fight.

I'm crazy? How many people have I killed for no reason?

WHOA BUDDY!! Kepe me out of this! I wont be guilty by association!! :|

Your not takin ME to jail with you, OH NO!!

😛

Seriously, do you think these people are rising up just to keep Bush happy? Honestly, is your thinking THAT limited and your hatred for Bush THAt blinding?? I mean damn, honestly here Darkhawk. Your telling me this is all a big sham just to keep Bush happy?

Maybe, maybe not. Muslim people are a peace-loving race with a completely different culture than ours. When democracy crosses their path (on its own merits), then great. But its not going to happen in a few years under Bush.
 
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28


I'm crazy? How many people have I killed for no reason?

People..... I don't know, but I guess you've killed lots of kittens 😀

(and not the reason from your sig)
 
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Pure placation until Bush is gone. Sometimes you have to appease a psychopath.

1) Your crazy
2) It seems a good majority of people are simply incapable of thinking out of the box when it comes to Bushs strategy.
3) The proof is in the pudding. The banner of freedom has been carried to the Middle East, and the people there wont let it fall without a fight.

I kind of agree with you here, actually, but since I'm not in such a hurry to rub it in the Democrats' collective face, I got something else out of it. Supporting Democracy in the Middle East sounds good to me...but you don't need to invade anyone to do it. Bush's strategy in Iraq is way too costly to apply to every country in the Middle East. But if the article is accurate, words (nice, cheap words), are having a "revolutionary effect" on their own.

And as I've said before, I think whatever kind of system the people in the Middle East want, they can get without the oddly condecending help from the US. It's only a matter of time.
 
Originally posted by: biostud
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28


I'm crazy? How many people have I killed for no reason?

People..... I don't know, but I guess you've killed lots of kittens 😀

(and not the reason from your sig)

Nah, I'm a pet lover. I love pets, but I don't LOVVVVE pets.
 
I agree we shouldnt force our views on them at the end of that 120mm smoothbore, but I thinks its important for the people of the Middle East to know if they want change, and will support change and embrace freedom then if its needed we will bring that change, and our help, at the end of that 120mm smoothbore.
Its not about forcing a people to change, it giving them the knowledge that if they need help in earning their freedom they will have it.
 
Originally posted by: Specop 007
I agree we shouldnt force our views on them at the end of that 120mm smoothbore, but I thinks its important for the people of the Middle East to know if they want change, and will support change and embrace freedom then if its needed we will bring that change, and our help, at the end of that 120mm smoothbore.
Its not about forcing a people to change, it giving them the knowledge that if they need help in earning their freedom they will have it.

I can agree with that, but that 120mm smoothbore has to be at the true will of that country's people. We want to be like France during the American Revolution. We don't want to be country-wide hostage-takers with millions of citizens suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
 
What would be interesting is to have a poll to see if the other countries people would be interested in having the US attack them to depose their government. I bet the answer would be "NO".
 
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: Specop 007
I agree we shouldnt force our views on them at the end of that 120mm smoothbore, but I thinks its important for the people of the Middle East to know if they want change, and will support change and embrace freedom then if its needed we will bring that change, and our help, at the end of that 120mm smoothbore.
Its not about forcing a people to change, it giving them the knowledge that if they need help in earning their freedom they will have it.

I can agree with that, but that 120mm smoothbore has to be at the true will of that country's people. We want to be like France during the American Revolution. We don't want to be country-wide hostage-takers with millions of citizens suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

I agree as well, the point should be that WE do not make the decision, THEY do.

Just like with any other allies, we help them out, we don't do what we feel is in their best interest without talking to them first. Despite how some people might view it, we're not the world's parents.
 
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