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Arab Muslims - what went wrong
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The author is an idiot. Aimster is a genius
I just posted the largest Muslim country
It has a GDP of 880 billion. So the other Muslim nations have a combined GDP of less than 1,000 Million?
Turkey and Iran have GDPs of both 550 billion.
Which proves that the combined GDP of all Muslim nations is not less than 2 Trillion. It is in fact more.. unless all other Muslim countries besides Turkey, Indonesia and Iran have GDPs in the $50s (that is fifty dollars).
Indonesia has 200+ million who are literate. Which means only 200 million Muslims outside Indonesia can be literate.
We again look at Turkey and Iran.
Iran's literacy rate: 80%
Population: 80 million
Turkey's literacy rate: 87%
Population: 80 million
Total literacy of Turkey (70) + Iran (64) = 134 million.
So according to your Author, outside Indonesia, Iran and Turkey the rest of the Muslim world is pretty much illiterate.
Common Sense. Where is it? Maybe in the future you will be able to find it.
Here is some data that zeroes in on Arab Muslims (excludes Muslims in India, Pakistan, etc)
Note the appalling discrepancy between males and females with regards to literacy:
Gender breakdown of illiteracy rates of selected countries in the Arab States and North Africa
Arabs must face the 'flat earth' challenge: health, education, social services and freedoms
"The assessment of Arab human development, completed by UNDP in 2002 and 2003, is the most comprehensive and up to date. The report, prepared by Arab scholars, found that the Arab states are at the bottom of human development, after most nations of South America and Southeast Asia. One out of every five Arabs lives on less than $2 a day, and over the last 20 years, average per capita Gross Domestic Product in the Arab world has risen at less than 1 percent annually - the lowest rate in the world except for sub-Saharan Africa. The combined GDP of all the Arab countries (more than 280 million people) was only five times greater than that of tiny Israel. Had the report subtracted oil and gas revenues from the equation, the picture would have been grimmer."
Statistics on health are shocking: Arab infant mortality rates are among the highest in the world, ranging between 43.5 per 1,000 in Egypt and 11.6 per 1,000 in Kuwait, against the Israeli rate of six per 1,000. Arab illiteracy is 38.7 percent - higher than that of sub-Saharan Africa - and is over 50 percent for Egyptian women. The rate of Arab Internet access is 6.6 percent - equal to that of sub-Saharan Africa. In contrast, Israel ranks 18th internationally in the area of technological achievement. In its recent Arab competitiveness report, the World Economic Forum (WEF) said relatively low educational standards, high tariffs, closed economies, rampant corruption - are all contributing to the stagnation of the Arab world. The report, coming from the WEF, a leading champion of globalization, even made a threat: Change or be changed!
The degree to which women are oppressed is alarming. In the index that ranks women's power in society, the Arab states are near the bottom.
I agree it is a problem in the Arab World, but one that I do not attribute to religion. Remember, earlier in history it was the opposite. Thousands of books in the Middle East littered at bazaars for sale, whereas the only place to have a library was a Church in Europe. Personally I disagree with the "Chrianity vs Islam" comparison.
Historically after the plague pretty much decimated the world (the Middle East and China were also hit VERY hard) and its main effects started to wear off in the 1300s...Europe experienced a HUGE population explosion. An explosion that did not occur in the middle east. That is a mark against any advancement because you have less people, which means the ability to produce less goods (well at that time it was directly proportional to the number of works in the field...not like now where we got huge machines to do the work and just need one guy to supervise every few acres). IF you have less food production, people canot sit back and "think"~ they must work for their food.
On top of it, the Ottomon rulers were not particulary nice to the Middle East. In Iraq alone during ottomon rule the population dropped from an estimated 30 million to 10 million by the time WW1 ended with Turkish/Ottomon defeat. This is why today the population isn't very "fiendly" to the Turks and the older generation are even slightly racist. Now the population of Iraq today is estimated to be about 25 million...not even up to the levels of four/five hundred years ago!
Naturally it should simply be a matter of logistics, and how much you have. Not whether one religion stunts it, and one doesn't. Christianity stunted it in the past, and today science flourishes in "Christian" areas yet many still claim to practice Christianity as it was inteded. Religion in this is largely irrelevant. Let us assume one day that all the sudden our food production drops to nil, and EVERYONE has to go and scavanage for their own food to live. I doubt we'll see much scientific advancement then!
That and sometimes some crazy stuff occurs:
Let us look at Iraq. Before the Gulf War the illteracy rate was non existant due to the fact that free and mandatory education (free through COLLEGE, mandatory through highschool), and the economy was 92% comprised of services, and had advanced medical facilities. Speak to any of the older generation and MANY of them will have degrees in something whether it be science, engineering, humanities, medicine etc.. 10 years of sanctions...I would be suprised if the literacy rate of OVER 70 percent and the younger generation has absolutely nothing.
Now let us look at the situation from a broader perspective...This entire century the Middle East has experienced oppressive dictators supported by foreign countries. We may say we want Democracy in countries like SA and Jordon, but so as long as we feed them the money they want things won't change anytime soon (and Jordan is a very sad problem...if you arne't part of the rich few, you are part of the many filthy poor~ a saying my (luckily rich) Jordanian friend told me).
Ironically the two most advanced middle east/arab countries (well through 91 😉) were the most rebellious (Iraq and Eygpt). So the day we stop being hippocritical is the day that we will see change occur. They were advanced long ago with the religion, I don't see how the religion changes any of that barring external factors (Which I think are the cause)
So summary:
Plague kills all -> Mid East doesnt recover population wise--> Turks not as interested in developing region to threaten their power -->Fall of Ottomons still leads to oppression by European Countries -->US serve to prop up oppressive governments....
...if they were advanced after all this I would be suprised!
Historically after the plague pretty much decimated the world (the Middle East and China were also hit VERY hard) and its main effects started to wear off in the 1300s...Europe experienced a HUGE population explosion. An explosion that did not occur in the middle east. That is a mark against any advancement because you have less people, which means the ability to produce less goods (well at that time it was directly proportional to the number of works in the field...not like now where we got huge machines to do the work and just need one guy to supervise every few acres). IF you have less food production, people canot sit back and "think"~ they must work for their food.
On top of it, the Ottomon rulers were not particulary nice to the Middle East. In Iraq alone during ottomon rule the population dropped from an estimated 30 million to 10 million by the time WW1 ended with Turkish/Ottomon defeat. This is why today the population isn't very "fiendly" to the Turks and the older generation are even slightly racist. Now the population of Iraq today is estimated to be about 25 million...not even up to the levels of four/five hundred years ago!
Naturally it should simply be a matter of logistics, and how much you have. Not whether one religion stunts it, and one doesn't. Christianity stunted it in the past, and today science flourishes in "Christian" areas yet many still claim to practice Christianity as it was inteded. Religion in this is largely irrelevant. Let us assume one day that all the sudden our food production drops to nil, and EVERYONE has to go and scavanage for their own food to live. I doubt we'll see much scientific advancement then!
That and sometimes some crazy stuff occurs:
Let us look at Iraq. Before the Gulf War the illteracy rate was non existant due to the fact that free and mandatory education (free through COLLEGE, mandatory through highschool), and the economy was 92% comprised of services, and had advanced medical facilities. Speak to any of the older generation and MANY of them will have degrees in something whether it be science, engineering, humanities, medicine etc.. 10 years of sanctions...I would be suprised if the literacy rate of OVER 70 percent and the younger generation has absolutely nothing.
Now let us look at the situation from a broader perspective...This entire century the Middle East has experienced oppressive dictators supported by foreign countries. We may say we want Democracy in countries like SA and Jordon, but so as long as we feed them the money they want things won't change anytime soon (and Jordan is a very sad problem...if you arne't part of the rich few, you are part of the many filthy poor~ a saying my (luckily rich) Jordanian friend told me).
Ironically the two most advanced middle east/arab countries (well through 91 😉) were the most rebellious (Iraq and Eygpt). So the day we stop being hippocritical is the day that we will see change occur. They were advanced long ago with the religion, I don't see how the religion changes any of that barring external factors (Which I think are the cause)
So summary:
Plague kills all -> Mid East doesnt recover population wise--> Turks not as interested in developing region to threaten their power -->Fall of Ottomons still leads to oppression by European Countries -->US serve to prop up oppressive governments....
...if they were advanced after all this I would be suprised!
You think this is because the people prefer this? It is because it is what the government prefers! Do not let them be a threat to the government~ and with our aid they are NOT a threat to their government.
Notice that all you mention -- bad education, high tarrifs, closed economies, rampant corruption...that all comes from the government! We act like the people themselves are a part of this
Realities we can?t blame others for
Abdul Qader Tash
Senior columnist, Arab News, Al Madina newspapers
A recent report on the Arab world prepared by the United Nations Development Fund and the Arab Fund for Economic and Social Development points to the pitiable state of backwardness prevailing in the region. The report presents a depressing reality that we cannot blame others for. Nor can it be dismissed as a propaganda gimmick by our 'enemies'. The report is the outcome of 30 Arab researchers? effort for over a year. It portrays the real picture of 22 Arab countries with more than 280 million people.The figures supplied by the report speak for themselves, painting vivid picture of the wretchedness of the people in Arab countries. The causes of Arab underdevelopment identified in the report are lack of freedom, marginal participation of women in public life and educational backwardness.Arab people enjoy least freedom compared to any other region in the world ? less than even the countries bordering southern Sahara. Civil rights are mostly ignored though they are incorporated in constitutions and legislations in those countries. There are several impediments for the free functioning of the agencies that are supposed to ensure these rights. [/b]Arab women get the least opportunity to participate in the economic and political activities compared to any other place in the world. The level of education among Arab women is the lowest in the world. More than 50 percent of them are illiterate.[/b] One of the most alarming facts revealed by the report is the backwardness of Arabs in the field of science. The level of education in the region is falling while the per capita spending on scientific research and development is the lowest in the world. In 1996, it was 0.4 percent of the GNP which is one-third of what Cuba spent on scientific research. In 1994, Israel allocated 6.35 percent for the GNP for research programs while in Japan it was 6.9 percent. Naturally, the educational backwardness increases the rate of illiteracy among Arabs. More than 65 million people, which accounts for 43 percent of the Arab population, are illiterate. Only 0.5 percent Arabs have access to Internet. It is also the lowest in the world. The total number of translated works to Arabic in the last 10 centuries is the same as the number of books translated in one year to Spanish. The pitiful number of 220 books translated to Arabic annually is only one-fifth of the works translated to Greek every year, while the Arab population is 28 times the size of the Greek population. The state of Arab economy is deeply disturbing. The average economic growth in the last 20 years is not more than 0.5 percent. At this rate, it will take 140 years to double the capital investments in these countries while it will take only 10 years in most other parts in the world. Though oil-rich nations form part of the Arab region, the net domestic product in 1999 was less than 11 percent of Spain, which has only one-seventh population of Arab countries. Even if sufficient allowance is made for the shortcomings and exaggerations that might have affected the figures in the report, it would not change the picture radically. We have to admit that the situation is really bad. We should counter the challenge by looking for the causes and then struggling for the solutions. This is a responsibility to be shared by all Arabs. There should be a political will to change, and governments, people and organizations should cooperate wholeheartedly to lift the Arab world from the depth it now find itself in.
What does Arab have to do with Muslim.
My original percentage was off.
Fewer than 15% of the Muslim population is Arab. Not 15-18%
You are making a fool out of yourself. Stop posting.
This thread is titled: Islam.
Not Arab.
You need to go to school instead of stay at home all day and post on these forums.
My original percentage was off.
Fewer than 15% of the Muslim population is Arab. Not 15-18%
You are making a fool out of yourself. Stop posting.
This thread is titled: Islam.
Not Arab.
You need to go to school instead of stay at home all day and post on these forums.
I would guess that education is better AFTER Iran...unlike Iraq I still know quite a few Iranis coming over for grad school in stuff like electrical engineering etc. If anything the Mullahs seemed smart enough not to fvck the education system over royally.
Although I would say take a step futher and look at Iranis in terms of a greater scale in history. These guys were Muslims since the 700s or so, and their contributions to Islamic thought and Sciences (and science in General!) is quite amazing!
Some of the greatest poetry out of the region came from Muslims...and medical and mathemetical advancements came from them as well. So in terms of history it would seem they are always pushing up, and have regular intervals of down (since everyone gets those)
Either way...thirty years isn't enough to really gauge something like that
actually, most of the statistics and figures in the original article are/ were correct. The author is a bit out with his illiteracy statistics. You really only see illitaracy that bad with the Muslims in India, particularly female Muslims, where illiteracy ranges from 50% to 100%. A more reasonable figure for illiteracy among all Muslims would be around 40% - which is still a shocking, appalling figure.
Your problem is you fail to see the forrest for the trees. You see a few stats that are out somewhat, zero in on that - all the while completely missing the broader picture.
I just proved you wrong and you are making random excuses.
40%? Are you pulling numbers out of your ass again? Even the Arab nations have at least 48-50%. Do better, you can surely do it.
I'm sorry you were proven wrong about A) literacy rate B) GDP
Now you are bringing up Arabs to cover your tracks. Arabs do not = majority of Muslims.
What part of that do you not understand? They are not even 1/5 of the Muslim population.
Indonesia + Iran + Turkey = GDP of 2 trillion. The author claimed the total of 57 Muslim nations is less than 2 trillion and I just pointed out 3 countries that surpass the 2 trillion mark.
The author is not a little off. He is way off.
Get a clue.
Algeria
Total GDP: $237 billion
Literacy Rate: 70%
Population: 32,531,853
Bahrain
Total GDP: 14.08 billion
Literacy Rate: 89%
Population: 688,345
Comoros
Total GDP: $441 million
Literacy Rate: 56.5
Population: 671,247
Djibouti
Total GDP: $619 million
Literacy Rate: 68%
Population: 476,703
Egypt
Total GDP: $337.9 billion
Literacy Rate: 58%
Population: 77,505,756
Jordan
Total GDP: $27.7 billion
Literacy Rate: 92%
Population: 5,759,732
Kuwait
Total GDP: $51.62 billion
Literacy Rate: 84%
Population: 2,335,648
Lebanon
Total GDP: $19.49 billion
Literacy Rate: 88%
Population: 3,826,018
Libya
Total GDP: $48.19 billion
Literacy Rate: 83%
Population: 5,765,563
Mauritania
Total GDP: $6.185 billion
Literacy Rate: 42%
Population: 3,086,859
Morocco
Total GDP: $139.5 billion
Literacy Rate: 52%
Population: 32,725,847
Oman
Total GDP: $40.14 billion
Literacy Rate: 76%
Population: 3,001,583
Qatar
Total GDP: $22.47 billion
Literacy Rate: 89%
Population: 863,051
Saudi Arabia
Total GDP: $340.5 billion
Literacy Rate: 79%
Population: 26,417,599
Somalia
Total GDP: $4.825 billion
Literacy Rate: 38%
Population: 8,591,629
Sudan
Total GDP: $85.46 billion
Literacy Rate: 61%
Population: 40,187,486
Syria
Total GDP: $63.86 billion
Literacy Rate: 77%
Population: 18,448,752
Tunisia
Total GDP: $76.91 billion
Literacy Rate: 74%
Population: 10,074,951
Yemen
Total GDP: $17.2 billion
Literacy Rate: 50%
Population: 20,727,063
U.A.E
Total GDP: $74.51 billion
Literacy Rate: 78%
Population: 3,500,000
Total GDP 1,608.6 Billion
Literacy Rate 60.3%
Total Population 297 Million
Percent of Muslim population - Arab Less than 15%
Percent of World population - Arab 5%
Iraq & Palestine were not included
Total GDP: $237 billion
Literacy Rate: 70%
Population: 32,531,853
Bahrain
Total GDP: 14.08 billion
Literacy Rate: 89%
Population: 688,345
Comoros
Total GDP: $441 million
Literacy Rate: 56.5
Population: 671,247
Djibouti
Total GDP: $619 million
Literacy Rate: 68%
Population: 476,703
Egypt
Total GDP: $337.9 billion
Literacy Rate: 58%
Population: 77,505,756
Jordan
Total GDP: $27.7 billion
Literacy Rate: 92%
Population: 5,759,732
Kuwait
Total GDP: $51.62 billion
Literacy Rate: 84%
Population: 2,335,648
Lebanon
Total GDP: $19.49 billion
Literacy Rate: 88%
Population: 3,826,018
Libya
Total GDP: $48.19 billion
Literacy Rate: 83%
Population: 5,765,563
Mauritania
Total GDP: $6.185 billion
Literacy Rate: 42%
Population: 3,086,859
Morocco
Total GDP: $139.5 billion
Literacy Rate: 52%
Population: 32,725,847
Oman
Total GDP: $40.14 billion
Literacy Rate: 76%
Population: 3,001,583
Qatar
Total GDP: $22.47 billion
Literacy Rate: 89%
Population: 863,051
Saudi Arabia
Total GDP: $340.5 billion
Literacy Rate: 79%
Population: 26,417,599
Somalia
Total GDP: $4.825 billion
Literacy Rate: 38%
Population: 8,591,629
Sudan
Total GDP: $85.46 billion
Literacy Rate: 61%
Population: 40,187,486
Syria
Total GDP: $63.86 billion
Literacy Rate: 77%
Population: 18,448,752
Tunisia
Total GDP: $76.91 billion
Literacy Rate: 74%
Population: 10,074,951
Yemen
Total GDP: $17.2 billion
Literacy Rate: 50%
Population: 20,727,063
U.A.E
Total GDP: $74.51 billion
Literacy Rate: 78%
Population: 3,500,000
Total GDP 1,608.6 Billion
Literacy Rate 60.3%
Total Population 297 Million
Percent of Muslim population - Arab Less than 15%
Percent of World population - Arab 5%
Iraq & Palestine were not included
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