APU: Creating new excitement in the PC industry

[Warsam71]

Hey all,

Recently, our VP of global channel sales wrote a blog about the importance of APU as a category. Here is the link:
http://community.amd.com/community/...013/08/29/the-importance-of-apu-as-a-category

Imo APUs are here to stay. In fact, this “revolution” was bound to happen as we continue to seek higher performance at affordable costs. Integrating the CPU and the GPU makes sense to me since these are the processors that do the heavy lifting required for all the tasks we want our PC to do every day. From a gamer standpoint, I’m happy to see this, as AMD gives gamers the ability to combine APU graphics with a discrete GPU using our Dual Graphics.

I’m just curious, what are your thoughts on the subject?

 

[Zodiark1593]

From my own experience with several such systems, Asynchronous Crossfire (using the iGPU and dGPU) comes with microstutter issues that make regular Crossfire (two identical dGPUs) look smooth as silk. With a high end dGPU, the iGPU in the APU won't offer enough performance to even bother. Also, don't forget that Crossfire and SLI rarely work properly with newly released games, or games that aren't big name, so a high end dGPU still wins out here.

In my opinion, to be really viable in a multi-gpu setup, the iGPU needs to, at least, be capable of matching the mid to upper end of dGPUs (currently, that will be the Radeon 7700 series and above). This way, gamers can get the best experience by having GPUs of equal performance, as opposed to heavy micostuttering often present with mismatched Crossfire.

 

[Blitzvogel]

I wish AMD would work towards better/more common GPGPU on APU for games and such. I'm really hoping this happens with the coming generation of consoles and seeing software making it's way between PCs and consoles. Imagine the irony of a Richland or Kaveri APU + dedicated graphics being better than an i7 in "CPU" game performance.

 

[Shamrock]

I don't want to stray away from enthusiast CPUs.

 

[AnandThenMan]

The APU is most certainly the future, no question in my mind. Where AMD needs to invest much more heavily is on the software side.

As for wanting to game @ 1440p high settings on integrated, you're asking what is not feasible right now at reasonable cost and power.

 

[Xpage]

I would think unload physics to the APU while a dGPU would remain unhindered for visual display. Thus you can have all the pretty particle effects and have good frame rates, as opposed to picking one when running physics on a GPU

 

[monstercameron]

Since you asked us our thoughts...

Not everyone shares your enthusiasm. It's fine and dandy that APUs are here to stay, but some of us like more than what we NEED.

SELL us what we WANT, don't TELL us what we NEED.

I WANT to game @ 1440p with all the eye candy. I do NOT want to game @ 720p with no aa/noaf.

Before it's asked, I have owned AMD products since 1997, beginning with the 386DX/50. Owned a total of ONE Intel CPU, the 133mhz. If there isn't going to be an enthusiast CPU for AMD products, I will be forced to go Intel for my next system.

the small percentage of enthusiast have been marginalized by both intel and amd...a dying breed. If you think about it, the a10-6700 is more than what most people need. IMO with optimized s/w even higher end workloads like video editing and other highend multimedia workloads will be fine on amd apus.

also what is stopping form playing 1440p?

 

[Torn Mind]

They save the people who find them "good enough" money and eliminates the need for those folks to acquire a graphics card. Not needing a graphics card reduces noise and heat along with removing a point of failure.

 

[ClockHound]

They save the people who find them "good enough" money and eliminates the need for those folks to acquire a graphics card. Not needing a graphics card reduces noise and heat along with removing a point of failure.

While removing performance and flexibility. What's not to like?

 

[monstercameron]

While adding performance and flexibility. What's not to like?

FTFY sorry I dont think you understand what removing means.

if anything adding a 6570 class gpu[a8-10] to the cpu only adds value. Also to top it off you can still add in a dgpu.

 

[frozentundra123456]

A cheap cpu like the Athlon x4 750k with a discrete gpu like even a lowly HD7750 will give twice the performance of any current APU for very little, if any additional cost.

Hybrid crossfire is far from a satisfactory solution, as shown by this evaluation from Tom's Hardware.

evaluation of hybrid crossfire.

 

[monstercameron]

A cheap cpu like the Athlon x4 750k with a discrete gpu like even a lowly HD7750 will give twice the performance of any current APU for very little, if any additional cost.

Hybrid crossfire is far from a satisfactory solution, as shown by this evaluation from Tom's Hardware.

evaluation of hybrid crossfire.

you can buy a 5800k for $110 or a 6800k for $149 which is $-20-50 cheaper
and hybrid cross fire framerate variance is a case-by-case problem, some people are not bothered by unevenly paced frames. Also limiting the a10 to gaming wouldn't be quite a narrow evaluation of what an apu can do.

 

[Shamrock]

the small percentage of enthusiast have been marginalized by both intel and amd...a dying breed. If you think about it, the a10-6700 is more than what most people need. IMO with optimized s/w even higher end workloads like video editing and other highend multimedia workloads will be fine on amd apus.

also what is stopping form playing 1440p?

You quoted me before the edit. Ya ninja.

As for your question, you can game on 1440p, with stock APU w/ it's integrated GPU?

 

[frozentundra123456]

you can buy a 5800k for $110 or a 6800k for $149 which is $-20-50 cheaper
and hybrid cross fire framerate variance is a case-by-case problem, some people are not bothered by unevenly paced frames. Also limiting the a10 to gaming wouldn't be quite a narrow evaluation of what an apu can do.

Even if one accepts your figures, at maximum a 10 percent increase in cost for a 100 percent increase in performance seems like a no-brainer to me.

Hybrid crossfire might make sense to try if you happen to have a HD6570 or something like that already lying around, but to buy an apu and a card to crossfire with it makes no sense. It would make more sense to buy a cpu without an igp and a more powerful discrete card.

 

[Torn Mind]

While removing performance and flexibility. What's not to like?

The APU is certainly not a universal solution. But, for those who are don't need more than a CPU that is comparable to a Core 2 Quad 9650 and a GPU more than an under-par 6670, it offers a a cheaper package than buying the parts separately. For those who need more, of course, they should be made aware of its limitations. Deciding whether an APU is suitable is dependent on performance and price of the APU compared to a discrete GPU+CPU.

 

[monstercameron]

Even if one accepts your figures, at maximum a 10 percent increase in cost for a 100 percent increase in performance seems like a no-brainer to me.

Hybrid crossfire might make sense to try if you happen to have a HD6570 or something like that already lying around, but to buy an apu and a card to crossfire with it makes no sense. It would make more sense to buy a cpu without an igp and a more powerful discrete card.

not trying to discount what you have stated but apus are a mainstream product. It might be a no brainer but only to those who are in the know.

 

[insertcarehere]

also what is stopping form playing 1440p?

Die size and bandwidth limitations are a huge limiting factor, especially as apus are supposed to be a mainstream solution, look at what Intel have needed to do to get decent igpu performance with iris pro, it's not a cheap implementation at all. AMD would face the same issues with trying to massively increase igpu performance for such resolutions.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Since hybrid crossfire is such a disaster to put it mildly. Have AMD considered to use the actual advantage an AMD APU+AMD dGPU design gives. Abit like Lucid, simply APU in 2D/Desktop mode and the dGPU in gaming mode. So the dGPU is essentially shut off until required. This would give AMD an advantage in both mobile and desktop space.

And have AMD considered how to fix the memory bandwidth issue, like the Iris Pro. Its obvious that GDDR5 is not a practical path and DDR4 will not solve the issue. So in short, will we see AMDs version of an eDRAM implmentation?

 

[monstercameron]

Die size and bandwidth limitations are a huge limiting factor, especially as apus are supposed to be a mainstream solution, look at what Intel have needed to do to get decent igpu performance with iris pro, it's not a cheap implementation at all. AMD would face the same issues with trying to massively increase igpu performance for such resolutions.

oh you are talking about the apu...why just buy a dgpu[it works with apus:sneaky:].

 

[Zodiark1593]

not trying to discount what you have stated but apus are a mainstream product. It might be a no brainer but only to those who are in the know.

Here's my problem with APUs as a whole. For the non-gamer, the Average Joe, for example, all but the lower end APUs are going to be overkill for his needs, the most demanding of which probably involves Youtube. Now, for the gamer, even the AMD A10 offers subpar performance to even a mid-end dGPU, not to mention relatively poor performance on the CPU side of things compared to the competition. (The Radeon 6670 is low-end by today's standard btw).

I myself would probably not even look at an APU for my next PC as my workload can definitely use a speedy processor, and a very fast dGPU for when the gaming itch arrives. The "Good Enough" mentality simply doesn't cut it.

 

[Soulkeeper]

I just hope AMD provides CPUs/APUs on the same platform going forward.
IE: not just a gpu disabled part
I want to see another spin sharing the same socket with extra cores/cache where the GPU was.
It's like 50% of the die is gone, it will take a few generations to catch up from that handicap for those of us that use discreet video cards.

 

[escrow4]

I currently game with a 6300 + 7870. When all that is stuffed into an APU . . . drools.

AMD also really should create an APU for $45 to match the G1610, something with better CPU grunt than the A4 4000. I also see the future as mostly APU's; dedicated enthusiast CPU's are dying out now in a few years they'll become even nicher.

 

[monstercameron]

Here's my problem with APUs as a whole. For the non-gamer, the Average Joe, for example, all but the lower end APUs are going to be overkill for his needs, the most demanding of which probably involves Youtube. Now, for the gamer, even the AMD A10 offers subpar performance to even a mid-end dGPU, not to mention relatively poor performance on the CPU side of things compared to the competition. (The Radeon 6670 is low-end by today's standard btw).

I myself would probably not even look at an APU for my next PC as my workload can definitely use a speedy processor, and a very fast dGPU for when the gaming itch arrives. The "Good Enough" mentality simply doesn't cut it.

your post is a bit contradictory...see the underlined statement...then in bold.
Are apus overkill or not good enough? also how many of them are casuals or like us[in-the-know or enthusiasts]?

its a little funny that the a10 apu has more FP perf than the venerable gtx 8800 ultra...

 

[Eeqmcsq]

I don't game, so an iGPU is all I'll ever need. But my question is, will the CPU side of the APU be faster (both single and multi threaded) than my 1100T, or an FX-8350? In other words, I don't mind APUs, but I do mind if it's a performance downgrade from what I currently have.

 

[insertcarehere]

your post is a bit contradictory...see the underlined statement...then in bold.
Are apus overkill or not good enough? also how many of them are casuals or like us[in-the-know or enthusiasts]?

its a little funny that the a10 apu has more FP perf than the venerable gtx 8800 ultra...

I think what he was trying to say is that there is a big divide between the needs of the "average joe non-gamer" and the gamer crowd with regards to gpu capability. i.e way overkill for non-gamers, but are also pretty far from satisfying most pc gamers needs/wants. The 'good enough' mentality applies to the average-joe but not the pc gamer, who will pursue better and better graphic capabilities over time.