Approval ratings handling of Russia probe, Mueller 50%, Trump 30%

[HomerJS]

More good news, 60% consider this investigation a serious matter not a "witch hunt". 72% say Trump should testify under oath if asked by Mueller.

People finally starting to wake up. Mueller's ratings were underwater for a while. Shit gettin' real for people.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/msn/...ndling-of-russia-probe-than-trumps/ar-BBNepEh

 

[interchange]

What the hell is wrong with the 4 in 10 Americans who don't consider the Russia probe a serious matter. I mean... you can pick a side and be pulling for Trump and associates to not be guiltier, but thinking the investigation isn't something gravely important for national security? Yeesh.

 

[Moonbeam]

What the hell is wrong with the 4 in 10 Americans who don't consider the Russia probe a serious matter. I mean... you can pick a side and be pulling for Trump and associates to not be guiltier, but thinking the investigation isn't something gravely important for national security? Yeesh.

No pressure man, but for somebody like me who wasted his life as a nobody, a big part of me I feel fairly certain, was sort of hoping people like yourself, obviously intelligent and mentally adjusted and with the dedication and training to go through med school and specialize in psychiatry, would be able to shed some light on that. I find it absolutely staggering how nuts they are but the best I can do, that it has to do with ego identification with an external after the shaming of the true self, just plain seems a like a pale explanation. I mean, talk about going off the deep end. Every time I think about getting through to such idiots waterboarding comes to mind.

 

[interchange]

No pressure man, but for somebody like me who wasted his life as a nobody, a big part of me I feel fairly certain, was sort of hoping people like yourself, obviously intelligent and mentally adjusted and with the dedication and training to go through med school and specialize in psychiatry, would be able to shed some light on that. I find it absolutely staggering how nuts they are but the best I can do, that it has to do with ego identification with an external after the shaming of the true self, just plain seems a like a pale explanation. I mean, talk about going off the deep end. Every time I think about getting through to such idiots waterboarding comes to mind.

The problem with looking at this and being baffled at how so many normal people can be so nuts is that we've failed to appreciate that the real problem is our inability to recognize how nuts all of us are in the first place.

I'm not actually baffled by this. It's clearly illogical in the extreme to think Trump is a reasonably good President that is reasonably free from corruption. We haven't suddenly as a species lost our ability to reason. We've just now been exposed to circumstances which demonstrate that our very nature is to find ways to convince ourselves that human behavior is governed principally by reason when in fact no one's is or ever has been.

 

[Moonbeam]

We've just now been exposed to circumstances which demonstrate that our very nature is to find ways to convince ourselves that human behavior is governed principally by reason when in fact no one's is or ever has been.

I have a problem understanding this wording. if I said, "Somebody like Trump as President now shows present day people that it's our nature to want to believe we are rational when we actually have never been rational" would that be sort of what you are saying? What is the intention? Are you saying we are waking up to the fact we are irrational or waking up to the fact that we don't want to know we are? As I say about self hate, we don't know we hate ourselves, don't want to know we do, and don't want to know we don't want to know. It's all sort of the same problem. People are self respect damaged and use denial to protect that pain from becoming conscious. We died and it hurt so some would rather actually die in reality rather than remembering the fear of that pain is so bad.

My theory, then, is that we create what we fear in order to make ourselves feel it, that we self destroy out of an unconscious need to retrieve the self love we once had while never ever allowing ourselves to have it. We create hell. because we were ejected from heaven by being shamed and the walls of that prison are the feeling we deserve it.

 

[Moonbeam]

My theory, then, is that we create what we fear in order to make ourselves feel it, that we self destroy out of an unconscious need to retrieve the self love we once had while never ever allowing ourselves to have it. We create hell. because we were ejected from heaven by being shamed and the walls of that prison are the feeling we deserve it.

The point being that while it is very hard to feel what we really feel given who knows how many factors, the kind and severity of trauma, personality and who knows what else, it is not so hard to come to grips with the fact intellectually and see how it operates especially where poor self image is obvious. We may all be ultimately far more irrational than we have told ourselves that we are but that won't change so long as we are in denial of that fact and so knowing what our problem is intellectually can help to overcome our irrational fears. What we fear is that we are the worst in the world, that is the feeling, but it isn't actually true, it is only true in our feelings. There is nothing to fear but fear itself and fear is not feeling. It is the suppression of feeling when what we fear starts to become conscious and we start to feel. Once the walls come down and we feel, we become alive again. What I believe then is that there is hope and a cure for our madness. The truth we fear are lies and the real truth is that God is a projection, not just of our own madness of the past, but of what we can become.

 

[interchange]

I have a problem understanding this wording. if I said, "Somebody like Trump as President now shows present day people that it's our nature to want to believe we are rational when we actually have never been rational" would that be sort of what you are saying?

Yeah, I think you understood that right.

What is the intention? Are you saying we are waking up to the fact we are irrational or waking up to the fact that we don't want to know we are?

I don't think either of those things are happening. I'm just saying that this is exposing the truth, but I don't think anyone is actually waking up to it.

In fact, I think that part of the danger of Trump is that many non-Trump supporters are given a false sense of security that they themselves are rational and in fact superior in their reasoning. In reality, their motivations to not support Trump are not based of reason but happen to quite emphatically align with reason. Thus, they are making a correlation-causation logical error.

As I say about self hate, we don't know we hate ourselves, don't want to know we do, and don't want to know we don't want to know. It's all sort of the same problem. People are self respect damaged and use denial to protect that pain from becoming conscious. We died and it hurt so some would rather actually die in reality rather than remembering the fear of that pain is so bad. The ego is mighty opportunistic in that way.

My theory, then, is that we create what we fear in order to make ourselves feel it, that we self destroy out of an unconscious need to retrieve the self love we once had while never ever allowing ourselves to have it. We create hell. because we were ejected from heaven by being shamed and the walls of that prison are the feeling we deserve it.

I think, at this time in my life, I'm done trying to reason out why human beings are the way we are and focus more on enhancing my awareness of what human beings really are, most principally what I really am. I also wonder if your quest to reason out why people are the way they are isn't just a different version of the same phenomenon. Here you are trying to make sense of human behavior and looking for ways in which you are superior to others. Is that not your ego? And I suspect you will protest the superiority part, what with your self-hate narrative. But that's perhaps the compromise you are making with your superego (morality).

 

[Moonbeam]

interchange: Yeah, I think you understood that right.

M: OK

i: I don't think either of those things are happening. I'm just saying that this is exposing the truth, but I don't think anyone is actually waking up to it.

M: Well I think this is the problem I was having because I don't see how something can be exposed without there being somebody who sees or wakes up to the exposure.

i: In fact, I think that part of the danger of Trump is that many non-Trump supporters are given a false sense of security that they themselves are rational and in fact superior in their reasoning. In reality, their motivations to not support Trump are not based of reason but happen to quite emphatically align with reason. Thus, they are making a correlation-causation logical error.

M: I think I have been calling that ancillary to the liberal brain defect.

i: I think, at this time in my life, I'm done trying to reason out why human beings are the way we are and focus more on enhancing my awareness of what human beings really are, most principally what I really am.

M: This is exactly what I don't believe. I tell myself that but what I see is that I don't know what I feel, don't want to know and don't want to know I don't want to know but know anyway because I was shown and also found myself in a place I couldn't avoid that confrontation. The last thing on earth that I want to know is who I am because I know that what I think I really am is what I feel, self hate.

i: I also wonder if your quest to reason out why people are the way they are isn't just a different version of the same phenomenon.

M: I have trouble with trying to figure out what you are refering to when you say words like 'same phenomenon". What phenomenon did you mean?

i: Here you are trying to make sense of human behavior and looking for ways in which you are superior to others. Is that not your ego? And I suspect you will protest the superiority part, what with your self-hate narrative. But that's perhaps the compromise you are making with your superego (morality).

M: I don't know. I also don't think I am searching for an explanation of human behavior. I believe I have that understanding. I believe that I understand the problem but I don't think I am free of the problem myself. I think the only real difference between me and most people is that I am aware that all of the blame I would like to hand to others for problems that are actually mine is that I know who the real enemy is even though I will still engage in such blame at a visceral level. So I do protest but I don't fully grasp if it's for the reasons you suggest. If I am defensive it's taken the form of blindness to comprehension of what you mean.

From my end I ask myself, I wonder if interface knows that he hates himself. I am also aware that even if you do, you can still be that correlation causation thingi.

 

[interchange]

Well I think this is the problem I was having because I don't see how something can be exposed without there being somebody who sees or wakes up to the exposure.

Yeah I see that. I think people are certainly in response to Trump waking up to the fact that they've miscalculated human nature at least, although their ideas of what that represents is quite flawed.

I think I have been calling that ancillary to the liberal brain defect.

Indeed.

This is exactly what I don't believe. I tell myself that but what I see is that I don't know what I feel, don't want to know and don't want to know I don't want to know but know anyway because I was shown and also found myself in a place I couldn't avoid that confrontation. The last thing on earth that I want to know is who I am because I know that what I think I really am is what I feel, self hate.

I'll maybe have some time later to clarify what I meant with the specifics, but I think we are basically just using each other as mirrors to see in us what we couldn't allow ourselves to see otherwise. Despite our efforts, we're both still human.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yeah I see that. I think people are certainly in response to Trump waking up to the fact that they've miscalculated human nature at least, although their ideas of what that represents is quite flawed.



Indeed.



I'll maybe have some time later to clarify what I meant with the specifics, but I think we are basically just using each other as mirrors to see in us what we couldn't allow ourselves to see otherwise. Despite our efforts, we're both still human.

Thank you for this. I have long felt that we share a sense that the irrational is rather more universal than its more obvious current manifestation among Trump supporters and that any effort to shine a light on that is commonly resisted either by complete denial or some form of ‘both sides’ kind of denial.

Additionally for me are all the issues I have with my third way conscious state stuff and the duality I see in language.

On one level, for example, I will use words like good and evil, moral values, to express points of view while at the same time on a mother level the integrative experience that I see as having ended existential suffering for me personally was only possible after I abandoned them as real.

This means I speak a different language when I use words I once used in ways I now see no longer apply.

Take, “Despite our efforts we are both human.” I can read that in so many ways. I see that we can easily imagine we are making tremendous efforts but are really just kidding ourselves, because we are masters of denial, but it will still require effort to do that.

And as to being human, what exactly is that? So many times when I hear people say they are human, they really mean they are anything but human, that they are monsters. Here we have the denial of euphemism and the problem of duality all wrapped up in one.

If we are irrational beings I see that as the manifestation in part of the fact, the fact at least to me, that there is more that one ‘I’ that can command speech. I look, therefore, at who it is that at any one moment might be doing the talking.

Life is fun.

 

[interchange]

Thank you for this. I have long felt that we share a sense that the irrational is rather more universal than its more obvious current manifestation among Trump supporters and that any effort to shine a light on that is commonly resisted either by complete denial or some form of ‘both sides’ kind of denial.

Additionally for me are all the issues I have with my third way conscious state stuff and the duality I see in language.

On one level, for example, I will use words like good and evil, moral values, to express points of view while at the same time on a mother level the integrative experience that I see as having ended existential suffering for me personally was only possible after I abandoned them as real.

This means I speak a different language when I use words I once used in ways I now see no longer apply.

Take, “Despite our efforts we are both human.” I can read that in so many ways. I see that we can easily imagine we are making tremendous efforts but are really just kidding ourselves, because we are masters of denial, but it will still require effort to do that.

And as to being human, what exactly is that? So many times when I hear people say they are human, they really mean they are anything but human, that they are monsters. Here we have the denial of euphemism and the problem of duality all wrapped up in one.

If we are irrational beings I see that as the manifestation in part of the fact, the fact at least to me, that there is more that one ‘I’ that can command speech. I look, therefore, at who it is that at any one moment might be doing the talking.

Life is fun.

Yes.