Apple to offer Quad G5 Macs - EDIT: Dual-core G5 is now confirmed by IBM.

[Eug]

I summarized the details here (with screengrab), but the gist of it is that the latest Apple CHUD performance tools give us two pieces of info:

1) There is indeed a G5 970MP. (The 970MP is a dual-core G5 with additional L2 cache.)
2) There is now support for up to 4 CPUs (or cores). (The old tools only supported 2 CPUs.)

EDIT:

Scroll down for link to IBM document talking about dual-core G5 970MP thermal diodes.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Nice. I'd love to see the insides of that box. *drool*

 

[halfadder]

This is nothing too special, Apple has sold dual processor machines as far back as the mid 1990s and DayStar used to sell a quad processor Mac clone.

My guess is that Apple is working with some dual core processors from IBM and thus has a system or two in the lab with 4 cores total. There were actually some rumors about this way back when the oversized G5 tower first came out. After all, there are very strong rumors that Apple will eventually use IBM's full Power6 processor and not just a PowerPC spinoff of it.

 

[mwmorph]

how much heat does a g5 chip generate? if it's anywhere near presshott levels...

 

[ribbon13]

I guess they gotta keep up with the Opterons. A quad dual-core Opteron would be a rendering beast.

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: halfadder
This is nothing too special, Apple has sold dual processor machines as far back as the mid 1990s and DayStar used to sell a quad processor Mac clone.

My guess is that Apple is working with some dual core processors from IBM and thus has a system or two in the lab with 4 cores total. There were actually some rumors about this way back when the oversized G5 tower first came out. After all, there are very strong rumors that Apple will eventually use IBM's full Power6 processor and not just a PowerPC spinoff of it.

AFAIK, this is the first time ever that the Mac OS X developer tools have had support for 4 CPUs. Just last week, they only supported 2 CPUs.

 

[halfadder]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
how much heat does a g5 chip generate? if it's anywhere near presshott levels...

Depends on which G5, there are two: the PowerPC 970 and the PowerPC 970FX.

The FX uses a newer style process and puts out less heat, it's what Apple uses in the Xserve. At 2.0ghz the FX only puts out 24.5watts but I think at 2.3ghz (what's in the current Xserve) it's already way up to 42watts.

I don't know what the "regular" 970 puts out but I recall reading something in the 60 to 70 watt range for the 2.5ghz model, which is way more than any previous PowerPC (but still way less than IBM Power5 or Itanium2).

 

[mwmorph]

so it's manafgeable(fx at least) wonder the cost will be like? a small car?

 

[MisterChief]

Behold the Developer System for the Xbox Next!

 

[halfadder]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
so it's manafgeable(fx at least) wonder the cost will be like? a small car?

Chances are Apple's probably just using an IBM Power5, which is a dual core processor that IBM uses in its big iron. The PowerPC 970 "G5" is basiclly just one core from the Power4+.

As for cost. Well, check out what IBM charges for their Power4+ based workstations. Power5 based systems will probably cost as much or more.
http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/pseries/hardware/workstations/

Even Sun's middle-model workstation with its cheap-to-manufacture UltraSPARC IIIi processor will cost you a pretty penny:
http://store.sun.com/CMTemplate/CEServl...unStore&cmdViewProduct_CP&catid=105033

 

[thunderroller]

are tese really friendly as windows

 

[barnett25]

Originally posted by: thunderroller
are tese really friendly as windows

I would say yes...


If i knew what you said.

 

[Rock Hydra]

Weren't the new PowerPC processors experiencing thermal problems? Won't more cores add to the mess?

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: halfadder

Originally posted by: mwmorph
so it's manafgeable(fx at least) wonder the cost will be like? a small car?

Chances are Apple's probably just using an IBM Power5, which is a dual core processor that IBM uses in its big iron. The PowerPC 970 "G5" is basiclly just one core from the Power4+.

As for cost. Well, check out what IBM charges for their Power4+ based workstations. Power5 based systems will probably cost as much or more.
http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/pseries/hardware/workstations/

Even Sun's middle-model workstation with its cheap-to-manufacture UltraSPARC IIIi processor will cost you a pretty penny:
http://store.sun.com/CMTemplate/CEServl...unStore&cmdViewProduct_CP&catid=105033

It's extremely unlikely Apple will be using POWER5. That's like using Itanium for desktops. They could use a POWER5 derivative though. ie. POWER5-lite.

Sort of how the G5 is like POWER4-lite (but at higher clock speed).

But mark my words, the G5 970MP dual-core is coming in the next few months.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Very interesting. Sounds like the same or similar CPU will be used in the XBox 2, and the rumors were mostly right.

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Very interesting. Sounds like the same or similar CPU will be used in the XBox 2, and the rumors were mostly right.

The CPU in the Xbox 2 will be very different. Each core is much less efficient per clock than a G5 core.

 

[Eug]

Yet another clue...

Typing grep -binary Quad CPU.menu in the /System/Library/CoreServices/Menu Extras directory reveals:

Single CPUDual CPUQuad CPU

 

[Eug]

It is now confirmed, by a document at IBM:

The dual 64-bit core PowerPC970MP? (970MP) is the next evolutionary step in the PowerPC 970 family of microprocessors. The higher frequency grade versions of the 970MP consume higher amounts of power than earlier IBM microprocessors do, and that can cause temperature issues. Each 970MP processor core contains a thermal diode used to monitor its operating temperature. The thermal diode must be monitored to ensure that the maximum operating temperature of the 970MP is not exceeded. These thermal diodes used by the microprocessors are unique to the PowerPC architecture and cannot be ?read? using standard thermal diode monitoring chips. This paper will discuss the characteristics of the diode and outline the struc-ture of a thermal diode monitoring circuit used to monitor the temperature of the microprocessor?s cores.

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: Eug
It is now confirmed, by a document at IBM:

The dual 64-bit core PowerPC970MP? (970MP) is the next evolutionary step in the PowerPC 970 family of microprocessors. The higher frequency grade versions of the 970MP consume higher amounts of power than earlier IBM microprocessors do, and that can cause temperature issues. Each 970MP processor core contains a thermal diode used to monitor its operating temperature. The thermal diode must be monitored to ensure that the maximum operating temperature of the 970MP is not exceeded. These thermal diodes used by the microprocessors are unique to the PowerPC architecture and cannot be ?read? using standard thermal diode monitoring chips. This paper will discuss the characteristics of the diode and outline the struc-ture of a thermal diode monitoring circuit used to monitor the temperature of the microprocessor?s cores.

Heh. The document has now disappeared.

 

[arcas]

Any word, yet, on mobile G5s for Powerbooks?

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: arcas
Any word, yet, on mobile G5s for Powerbooks?

Not much, except that IBM is working on it. What that "it" will be we don't know. However, I'm hoping for a 1.8 - 2.0 GHz G5 970GX with 1 MB L2 cache, to be released in the fall.

Some people have talked about Cell's PPE unit. A reasonable laptop chip could be a high GHz PPE, or else a slower dual-core PPE chip. I don't buy it though.

 

[kini62]

I don't see how a G5 would ever make it into a laptop. They run way hot. Quite a bit hotter than a P4, but since you can put a 3.6Ghz P4 in a laptop I guess you could put a 1.8 or 2.0 in a laptop as well.

As for the multi-core G5, again heat seems to be a problem. The G5 2.5 makes the 3.8 P4 seem like an Athlon 64 in comparison. The G5 2.5 runs in the 80s C on water cooling! They'll need liquid nitrogen to get that to 3Ghz.

I guess we'll see in couple of months when Apple roles out the upgrade to the G5 desktop line.

 

[Eug]

^^^ Talk about spreading FUD.

The G5 2.3 in the Xserves has a MAX power utilization of 55 Watts. I don't have a number for the 2.5, but I betcha it's in the 65 Watt range now. The reasoning for the liquid cooling was for heat density, not overall heat. Apple has already said this publicly. ie. There are hot spots on the chip which are problematic, and things like liquid cooling help. But heat density is very different from overall heat. Now it's true that the 2.5 was hotter when it first came out, but most estimates had it at around 90-100 Watts, which is still way less than Prescott.

Anyways, I would expect a low power variant of the G5 at 1.8 GHz to be in the 30 Watt max range, perfect for a laptop. It would be slightly warmer than the current Pentium M, but way less hot than a Mobility Pentium 4.

 

[hopejr]

I hated my old P4-M 2.2GHz, it got so hot! Sometimes it smelt like the case was burning. It's true. I couldn't use it as a real laptop because it really hurt after a while.