Apple to dump OS/X for Windows?

dawks

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,071
2
81
Firstly, let me say, I've never liked Dvorak much, and I've been keeping up with him via TWiT and still do not agree with much of what he has to say..

He recently published this article on the topic of Apple considering moving over to Windows and discontinuing OS/X. I think this is absolutly rediculous. Apple has spent billions of dollars and invested so much time to build a powerful and reliable OS, why dump it? And Apple as already done a ton to hastle developers by making them rewrite much of their software.. this is the third time now? Thats no joke, especially with large programs like MS Office and Adobe's Photoshop. Doing a 360° on them again is not good for business relations.

Now to my key point, which no one seems to have noticed, is that I believe Apple is actually moving towards being a software company. I'm not sayting they will drop hardware, or even cut their efforts in that area, but they are ramping up their software market more and more all the time. People don't seem to understand that software is where the money is. Its a much higher margin market. Sure the initial R&D process for software is generally more costly, and I'm torn on the support costs of software vs. hardware, since Microsoft has been very successful at outsourcing their tech support to the OEMs as an example.

But after you develop the software shipping costs are very low, and demand is very high. You can move a 100,000 copies of an OS that sells for $129 a pop for less than a $1000 generally speaking. (I know im just pulling some random numbers from my ass, but I'm trying to paint the picture). Now try selling something like an iPod Shuffle, which may cost $129 a pop too, but could you move 100,000 of them for less than a G?

I realize theres much more to it then this, but software is clearly a higher margin market. Microsofts net profit margin for last year was 31.60%, and that was with very quiet year, with no major releases, and huge investments in things that have yet to see and impact on sales (Vista, Office12, Xbox 360).. Apples net profit margin was a much lower 9.9%, and that was with pretty well their best year ever, with huge iPod sales, growth in the PC and laptop markes, and market dominating iTunes.

When you get to a point where Microsoft is, where people just NEED your software, you're in such good condition because you can ship a $300 OS, or $600 an Office suite for little to no cost relatively speaking. And you can do it more regularly. Software can be updated to provide better performance, more security, newer and better features all the time, but the hardware underneath, doesnt change a whole lot, or as quickly, at least for an office environment. (Where I work, we still use computers that are 6-8 years old, but have seen software change 2-3 times in that period).

And Apple is in such a good place right now with OS/X. They actually have a setup where people will pay $129 every 12 to 18 months for an update to the OS. Microsoft would kill for something like that. I'm thinking that was the idea with Windows XP. Make a few changes to an OS, and crank it out within 18 months of the last release to get another $150 or whatever they charge for the upgrade. Thats what they'd love, a stable and reliable source of income. I think they've learned a valuable lesson with Windows Vista, in that they were far to aggressive with it. I think in the future we'll see them pull back on the amount of changes they do and the time spent between OS releases and try for a more stable release schedule of 12-18 months.

This is just my little rant. I believe software is the future, and I do not think Apple will drop their hardware market, they also see the profitabilities in software and are moving to take a bigger share of that market.
 

n7

Elite Member
Jan 4, 2004
21,281
4
81
Not gonna happen.

I think it's more likely that Apple eventually wakes up, smells the bacon, & starts to sell OS/X for use on PCs :D
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,923
17
81
Won't happen. John Dvorak's specialty is making every crazy prediction he can think of, and then hoping on or two come to pass.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: n7
Not gonna happen.

I think it's more likely that Apple eventually wakes up, smells the bacon, & starts to sell OS/X for use on PCs :D

It is used on PCs. I haven't seen a mainframe version... Have you? ;)
 

dnuggett

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2003
6,703
0
76
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Originally posted by: n7
Not gonna happen.

I think it's more likely that Apple eventually wakes up, smells the bacon, & starts to sell OS/X for use on PCs :D

It is used on PCs. I haven't seen a mainframe version... Have you? ;)

Yeah seriously, what is it with people not thinking that a Mac is a PC?
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,587
10,225
126
Originally posted by: n7
Not gonna happen.

I think it's more likely that Apple eventually wakes up, smells the bacon, & starts to sell OS/X for use on PCs :D

Now that would be... an Awesome move.

As much as I've denounced Apple gear in the past.. I played with OS X on a TiBook once, and it was quite impressive. (Mostly because I could actually pull up a *nix-ish console window.. quite a change from the System6/System7 days.)
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,587
10,225
126
Originally posted by: eits
i think what will happen is creating an apple os with windows application compatibility, now that they've got intel inside.

Why not. That strategy worked wonders for IBM and OS/2. :p
 

SokaMoka

Banned
Feb 24, 2006
521
1
0
Apple's main profit comes from hardware, if they move to Windows , how the hell are they supposed to make profits as they are right now ? What would make someone want to buy an overpriced PC (MAC) if it will run what much cheaper and of equal quality and more versatile PCs can offer (your regular X86) ?

If a move is to be made, then it must be offering OS X for x86 the best timing to make such a move is now since Vista is near release a lot of people who are going to refuse to use more of Microsoft's craptastic products, given an alternative such as OS X for x86 might just go for it, especially if they can get some Windows-OS X interoperability in there.

Example is me running Linux, as an engineering student I have tons of applications for school that demand a Windows machine, but I till now was able to run every app that needs windows in WINE so I have no reason to get a machine with Windows on it.

If financed by a company with the resources for it, getting your OS to be inter operable with some applications of an OS that runs on the same architecture as your OS it's not that impossible.

Does my point make sense here ?

But still after looking at my argument I see one flaw in it that I didn't realize until the end, with OS X on x86 current Mac owners will loose a lot of motivation in order to buy Apple's overpriced hardware.

So really I don't see any approach that apple can take in order to get into the other side of the market without some serious serious consequences on their current market.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: eits
i think what will happen is creating an apple os with windows application compatibility, now that they've got intel inside.
You mean like Darwine? :)
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
ROFL...

Really...I could see Apple ditching OS X and sticking their GUI on a real FreeBSD, or Linux, even. But switching to Windows would be a death blow, turning them into a near pure hardware company, which they will not survive as.

Vista working with EFI will be all the Windows-ness anyone will want from a Mac.
 

kamper

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2003
5,513
0
0
Wow that was dumb. I really want to just ignore it but I can't help myself :eek: He had only one paragraph where he actually made any arguments:
Epstein made four observations. The first was that the Apple Switch ad campaign was over, and nobody switched.
Lots of people switched and they're still switching as far as I can see. I see more powerbooks and ibooks around than ever before, especially in my cs department at school. Somebody like Anand, to pick an prominent example, wouldn't touch a mac until recently.
The second was that the iPod lost its FireWire connector because the PC world was the new target audience.
usb != windows :confused:
Also, although the iPod was designed to get people to move to the Mac, this didn't happen.
That was point number 1 wasn't it?
And, of course, that Apple had switched to the Intel microprocessor.
That was point number 2, except that: intel != windows :confused::confused:

The rest of the article he didn't even make any points. He just did a poor job discussing the ins and outs of his foregone conclusion.

Selling macs with windows would turn apple into dell and they've probably got about as much chance in that market as they'd have selling os x without hardware but for exactly the opposite reasons.
 

d3lt4

Senior member
Jan 5, 2006
848
0
76
Originally posted by: eits
i think what will happen is creating an apple os with windows application compatibility, now that they've got intel inside.
lol, nice pun.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
And Apple as already done a ton to hastle developers by making them rewrite much of their software.. this is the third time now? Thats no joke, especially with large programs like MS Office and Adobe's Photoshop. Doing a 360° on them again is not good for business relations.

But if they did that this time they would be saving the developers work instead of causing them more since they wouldn't have to keep developing their software for 2 systems.

 

kamper

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2003
5,513
0
0
In other news, Apple is going to dump Darwin for Linux!!! ;)

Alright, who's going to find the next theory and which operating system will it be?
 

atyberg

Junior Member
Feb 26, 2006
10
0
0
Dvorak rants always get so much press. Randomly he is on mark. Cringely is usually a much better read, and easier site on the eyes.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
if they use windows...what the heck seperates them from other laptops? Just a design...not sure if I would pay a 700 markup for a white laptop and an apple logo
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,587
10,225
126
Originally posted by: Cerb
ROFL...

Really...I could see Apple ditching OS X and sticking their GUI on a real FreeBSD, or Linux, even. But switching to Windows would be a death blow, turning them into a near pure hardware company, which they will not survive as.
Why not just re-introduce NeXT for x86? (They would have to add emulation support for more than just Win16 though.. perhaps they could adapt WINE for it.)
Originally posted by: Cerb
Vista working with EFI will be all the Windows-ness anyone will want from a Mac.
EFI looks... interesting. I wonder if anyone will come out with a quick-start emulator for old console games, that runs under EFI. I think that would be neat.
 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
4,507
0
0
Originally posted by: magomago
if they use windows...what the heck seperates them from other laptops? Just a design...not sure if I would pay a 700 markup for a white laptop and an apple logo

Which is much better then paying a 700 dollar markup for a laptop with a apple logo that doesn't run any software.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
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0
Which is much better then paying a 700 dollar markup for a laptop with a apple logo that doesn't run any software.

It runs lots of software, just not that $19.99 shareware crap available for Windows.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Originally posted by: Cerb
ROFL...

Really...I could see Apple ditching OS X and sticking their GUI on a real FreeBSD, or Linux, even. But switching to Windows would be a death blow, turning them into a near pure hardware company, which they will not survive as.
Why not just re-introduce NeXT for x86? (They would have to add emulation support for more than just Win16 though.. perhaps they could adapt WINE for it.)
Why would NeXT be at all useful? IMO, if they change the underlying bits, they should go with straight-up FreeBSD. All the goodness of a nice ABI, speed, comparable security to OS X now--or Linux--and they don't have to give up source code.
 

obeseotron

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,910
0
0
Dvorak says a lot of pretty dumb stuff, once in a while its entertaining or thought provoking, but most of it is pure BS. This would fall into the BS category. He writes his stuff the PC World/PC Magazine crowd (forget which one he actually works for) that have an interest in technology, but don't understand it in and technical or even economic way.

If you understand it in an economic way, suggesting a move to windows is to totally destroy apple's business model - good software sells overpriced hardware. Mac OS and iTunes make no money. iTunes is the biggest online music store at least 10 times over and even the most optimistic estimate has the profit from the store at $100 million (10 cents a song). They sold 14 million iPods last quarter, even if they only make $20/iPod (it's actually more than twice that) a single month of iPod sales equals the entire history of iTMS. The MacOS is does not recoup its development cost in direct sales of upgrades, but there is such a good margin on most Macs it undoubtedly pays for itself. Despite what Dvorak seems to think, the non-iPod part of Apple is also profitable.

To understand things in a technical way is to see a limited future in discrete portable media devices and cell phones. Sure, Apple could transition themselves to a handset maker, but that puts them in competition with, much, much bigger companies, they'll never get anything like a dominant market share, and rolling out in different markets will be much harder than translating the iPod OS to a new language and changing the power plug on the AC adapter. Virtualization will eventually make running multiple OS's possible for technical users and eventually be brought down to a level where it happens seemlessly for all users. More and more runs through the browser rather than the operating system, MacOS is becoming lest restrictive for its users. Apple will virtualize Windows in hardware on the Mac, while not letting off the shelf PCs run the MacOS (relatively easy as long as there is no reason for hardware makers not contracted to provide components for the Intel Macs).

What exactly will Apple sell Windows users? Nice Cases? (at some point some one at Dell will realize that putting a couple angular vents on a plastic case painted a metalic color does not represent the "Lexus" of anything) iWork? (which doesn't have a thing on OpenOffice, much less MS Office) Come on, the only thing Apple could really sell to Windows users is a version of MacOS that will boot on their PCs.