Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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M5 Family discussion here:

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[johnsonwax]

Also do not underestimate the power of Apple having these machines available in ideal circumstances in their stores for users to stroll in and try. They will feel great compared to the PC they are thinking about replacing.

 

[Eug]

It isn't designed for people who are going to have all that stuff running. People running a typical corporate office workload aren't the target market for this.

"Mail, Safari (maybe half a dozen tabs or so), Messages, Calendar, MS Excel with a one page spreadsheet with very simple equations" isn't exactly heavy or even moderate usage. It's precisely the level of usage a student might have, except that instead of Excel it might be Spotify and Pages, plus Instagram in a browser. That pretty much describes my wife's M4 MacBook Air which NEVER leaves the kitchen. I had to put a keyboard cover on it as she sometimes gets flour on it because one of her main uses for it is to search for recipes. 😛

A LOT of people out there are using Macs or Windows PCs with 8 GB, or even less, and are just fine. Or maybe some of them are experiencing some slowness but just think that's how computers work and aren't as sensitive to it as people in a forum like this.

8GB on Apple Silicon is not comparable to 8GB on Intel Macs. Apple really has done some wizardry in AppleSilicon MacOS for low RAM environments. My wife still has an 8GB M1 MBA, spends most of her day using it, in Google sheets, some graphics apps, a screen full of browser tabs etc. and every so often I ask if she's noticed any slowdowns, etc. Nope. Runs great. 8GB on an Intel Mac ran like garbage years before the M1 came out.

Apple Silicon may do better with limited memory than older Intel Macs, but memory on macOS isn't magic either, or Apple wouldn't have bothered to increase the base RAM in entry level Macs to 16 GB years ago.

Of course perception of performance is all relative. My wife never mentioned slowdowns her 9th generation iPad until I got her the M4 MacBook Air. She's still fine to use the iPad but notices the lag now. I don't know if she noticed it before and just assumed it is normal behaviour, but now she knows that it isn't normal behaviour.

Some people here also may forget that we usually don't buy brand new machines to use for just 1 or 2 years. As mentioned, my hope for my kid's new laptop is for it to last to at least 2030, but preferably longer considering at that time my kid will be in university.

Another thing I've noticed with mainstream users is that many NEVER upgrade the OS beyond the pre-installed main version. ie. If they get the Mac with macOS 15, five years later it will still be on macOS 15, just with the automatic point updates and security updates. That goes a long way to maintain that perception of speed on older less well-spec'd hardware. Five years is a very long time for macOS updates, and machines will often slow down considerably during those five years if you do the major macOS upgrades every year. I personally religiously update all our iPhones, iPads, and Macs with every supported version, unless there is a known software incompatibility, and I can feel the slowdowns over time even with the exact same usage. BTW, I maintain a few external drives with complete installs of OS X 10.4 or so all the way up to 10.13. Occasionally I've had to boot older OS versions for various reasons, and it's always amazing to see just how much faster the older OS versions feel.

Also as mentioned, I did notice occasional minor slowdowns with an M1 with 16 GB RAM, even though I was just using mainstream light business apps with mild to moderate multitasking. I wasn't sure if that was just a macOS thing or a hardware thing until I got the M4 with 24 GB RAM. At that point I realized it wasn't just a macOS thing since all of those slowdowns completely disappeared. Would I be happy with a 16 GB Mac? Probably, but 24 GB is appreciably better even with my non-demanding apps.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2029300099466334433

Here's hoping that 19 Pro makes it into the Neo next year. 12 GB RAM plus 512 GB storage would be a reasonable machine, with more macOS update longevity.

That's because Chrome is garbage on low RAM. Safari is not. Note the long focus on RAM in Android phones while Apple blithely offered up half and still crushed them on performance in things like browser tests. I have built enough heavy JS data visualization websites for enterprise use to know who was going to call me complaining the site doesn't work, and who wasn't (don't miss that since retiring). With enough resources Chrome will be faster, but it doesn't like to be starved.

My examples above for my own usage are with Safari almost exclusively. The only time I use Chrome are with banking sites or online forms or something like that.

 

[Saylick]

If I were in the market for a cheap travel computer for light browsing, media consumption, office work, and was in the Apple ecosystem, the Neo feels like a compelling option over a cheap iPad + keyboard accessory.

 

[jdubs03]

On a basic math measure with 100 for an S core, 70 for a P core, and 33 for an E core based on percentage of compute:

6 S + 12 P = 1440.

12 S + 6 E = 1398.

12 S + 4 E = 1332. Just based on configuration the new layout wins.

One to add is the lower spec M5 Pro:
5 S + 10 P = 1200

So interesting dynamic there when comparing to the M4 predecessors; the higher end is relatively superior, the lower end is relatively inferior. And further in that comparison, the lower end is weaker (10%) to a larger extent than the higher end is stronger (3%). So at least in MT, that lower spec M5 Pro might only slightly be stronger than that lower spec M4 Pro (5-10%?). But then again they said 30% better multithread performance likely for the Max. So perhaps the lower spec performance increase is a bit more than 10pct.

 

[coercitiv]

If what Dave2D said at the beginning is true, Windows laptop OEMs might be soiling themselves as we speak.

Dave also speaks of those piles of broken plastic chromebooks turned into e-waste, but wait until the 8GB of RAM turns piles of perfectly capable Neos into effective e-waste. The price point is excellent, all other downgrades are understandable, but the RAM downgrade is a hard limit on the lifetime of this product.

People who buy this device will pay more over the next few years on laptops than the people who are currently buying a discounted (old gen) Macbook Air.

 

[jdubs03]

This is a good rundown of all things Neo:

https://www.macrumors.com/2026/03/04/macbook-neo-compromises/

 

[Eug]

If I were in the market for a cheap travel computer for light browsing, media consumption, office work, and was in the Apple ecosystem, the Neo feels like a compelling option over a cheap iPad + keyboard accessory.

One major annoyance with Macs for media consumption is that Netflix downloads are not supported on macOS, meaning no Netflix on a plane with a Mac. For this reason when I was traveling, I'd take my MacBook AND my iPad. These days I don't travel for work anymore, so I take only my iPad Pro. My MacBook stays at home but I already have an M4 Mac mini at home, which is why I haven't bothered to upgrade from my 2017 12" MacBook with 16 GB. (My wife has the M4 MacBook Air though.)

In fact, NONE of us in our family take our Mac laptops when traveling. We take 2-3 iPads with us, and our iPhones.

People who buy this device will pay more over the next few years on laptops than the people who are currently buying a discounted (old gen) Macbook Air.

That's just what I was thinking, at least for some people. Those people who never update their OS beyond point updates and such might be able to keep them going longer though.

In my specific case too the Neo might not support our extra 3840x2560 monitor. That would be an annoyance.

 

[poke01]

meaning no Netflix on a plane with a Mac

There’s wifi on planes now.

 

[Eug]

There’s wifi on planes now.

I can barely use Messages on a plane with free in-flight WiFi. The bandwidth and reliability is just too low. And I'm not going to pay the high prices for faster but still unreliable paid WiFi.

 

[poke01]

I can barely use Messages on a plane with free in-flight WiFi. The bandwidth and reliability is just too low. And I'm not going to pay the high prices for faster but still unreliable paid WiFi.

Fair. Although you can sail the high seas on a Mac.😝

 

[adroc_thurston]

I can barely use Messages on a plane with free in-flight WiFi. The bandwidth and reliability is just too low. And I'm not going to pay the high prices for faster but still unreliable paid WiFi.

Flying tincans really benefit from Starlink dishes.

 

[Mopetar]

Most people will use chrome on these machines and it will choke.

That's more of an indictment against Chrome than anything. I switched to Brave as my daily driver browser on my old Intel-based iMac a few years ago and have no issues despite the limited CPU and RAM compared to modern systems. When the browser aggressively blocks 99% of the crap that websites try to serve that just wastes clock cycles and memory it turns out that there's far less of an issue even with hardware that's way more limited than even this new Mac with a phone SoC in it.

This is the Mac you get your grandma instead of the low-end MacBook or MBA that costs $200+ more for performance she'll never need. This is not a product for a majority of the people who post on a tech forum unless they want an inexpensive (but nice) laptop they can use to remote into some hundred-core server they maintain.

 

[DavidC1]

Dave also speaks of those piles of broken plastic chromebooks turned into e-waste, but wait until the 8GB of RAM turns piles of perfectly capable Neos into effective e-waste. The price point is excellent, all other downgrades are understandable, but the RAM downgrade is a hard limit on the lifetime of this product.

8GB is fine, because it's a $599 Apple product. I can both be an enthusiast and still understand 8GB is fine for vast majority of people. Also until very recently my brother was gaming on the Sandy Bridge i3 with 8GB RAM.

More than fine actually, they have very high resale values as well. Meaning you could resell for much higher value than Windows laptops. And the chip in there is indeed far superior in lightly-threaded workloads, which benefit most of the workload people are on.

For Windows machine manufacturers that already have razor thin margins, this should indeed scare them. Yea, $599 is still fairly high, but it's 2026, in the middle of the RAM/Storage price crisis. Chromebooks are not comparable at all. They are cheaply built, and cheaply specced. More importantly, Apple has mindshare, other vendors don't.

Oh, and $499 EDU discounts make marketshare for Windows on ARM exactly zero.

Also, every new laptop that comes every year has same issues people are pointing out like how you could get older gens for cheaper. This is brand new.

 

[DavidC1]

When M1 debuted, it's huge caches were one of the factors attributed to it's superior performance and efficiency.

Fast forward to today, and the situation has flipped. Intel,AMD have more cache per core, bur are still getting creamed by Apple.

Apple has a huge L1 cache, which is the most important. Their L1 is bigger than Intel's mini-L2(I would call it marketing L1). 9-cycle for "L1" is really embrassing and a tiny 192KB size at that. Apple has a way bigger size for L1 while being only 3 cycles. Every time you have to go to a new level you are adding latency. Less latency, less power use, it makes everything better.

 

[dr1337]

Confirmed - Mechanical trackpad

I am genuinely surprised that its cheaper for apple to go mechanical instead of just reusing the macbook air trackpad.

How long have they been doing haptics for? 2008?

 

[dr1337]

Someone with bare minimum needs can also get a $300 8GB windows laptop, or use the phone or TV they already have.

In my opinion this device only makes sense if you've already decided that you want a MacBook.

Even then you can get two used m1 macbook airs for the cost of a new neo. Granted some people are deathly afraid of buying used hardware, but man I don't think the value is here.

 

[MerryCherry]

The Macbook Neo has a mechanical trackpad with a plunger design that is clickable anywhere.

That made me realize the reason I dislike mechanical trackpads on Windows laptops is because they use 'diving board' designs, which means only the bottom part is clickable.

I hope this type of mechanical trackpad becomes the norm, now that Apple has debuted it.

 

[Eug]

Even then you can get two used m1 macbook airs for the cost of a new neo. Granted some people are deathly afraid of buying used hardware, but man I don't think the value is here.

The M1 MacBook Air will probably be dropped from macOS 28, which comes out in 1.5 years.

 

[trivik12]

On a basic math measure with 100 for an S core, 70 for a P core, and 33 for an E core based on percentage of compute:

6 S + 12 P = 1440.

12 S + 6 E = 1398.

12 S + 4 E = 1332. Just based on configuration the new layout wins.

Wait. Do we know the Super core is > 40% better than P core and they actually have P cores instead of e cores. Seem too good to be true.

 

[DZero]

The Macbook Neo has a mechanical trackpad with a plunger design that is clickable anywhere.

That made me realize the reason I dislike mechanical trackpads on Windows laptops is because they use 'diving board' designs, which means only the bottom part is clickable.

I hope this type of mechanical trackpad becomes the norm, now that Apple has debuted it.

Wait, that trackpad is really good?

 

[Eug]

Mrwhosetheboss says the MacBook Neo feels somewhat laggy in regular usage.